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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 10:15AM
#71
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Works for me. Thanks guys. Now we just need to wait for the OR... which will probably tell us we're ALL wrong and some third set of occurances happens.
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 10:17AM
#72
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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bruna bursts into flames and burns the shop down?
proud member of the 2011 community team
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 11:19AM
#73
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I've made one comment in this thread, and I've read all the other arguments for one side or the other. Before the official ruling comes in, I stand by what I said before that the aura would come in attached, trigger, fall off, and 3 life gained. One issue ikegami keeps raising (and I like his or her style, by the way) is that you can't enchangt a creature with Pro:Black with a black enchantment. Very true. But what "our" side wants to reiterate is that it ain't black until its on the battlefield attached. ikegami and others know that some things in Magic happen simultaneously. Permanents enter the battlefield with their modified characteristics. It isn't one thing on the battlefield, and then the next moment something else. Aura's also don't enter the battlefield and then become attached to permanents. They enter attached. Because the aura is white in the graveyard it could enchant Bruna (the word "could" is used in Bruna's triggered ability text). Divine Favor just HAS to attach because nothing is preventing it from doing so. But once it is on the battlefield *and* attached *and* black (which all happen simultaneously), it triggers, falls off, and the 3 life resolves.
I argue that in cases like this, yes, you can attach a black aura to a permanent with protection from black, for the simple reason that Divine Favor isn't black until it's actually factually on the battlefield already attached to Bruna. There are different scenarios you could come up with that muddle the issue, like with Painter's Servant, and I'm sorry that those detract from the main issue at hand. But Divine Favor wouldn't fit the "could enchant [Bruna]" if it was black while in the graveyard, if it lost its "enchant creature" ability in the graveyard, or Bruna had protection from white or protection from enchantments or auras. But none of those things are true in the original scenario posted for this thread. Divine Favor *could* enchant it, so it does, then it realizes it shouldn't be there and goes back to the graveyard.
That's my take. I promise to giggle out loud in my office when NateDogg confirms this. I promise to pretend to cry really loud from my office if NateDogg denies this. Which will my co-workers hear?
Teachable Level 1 Judge
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 11:30AM
#74
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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This thread is reminding me of the whole Black Sun's Zenith vs Undying thing (example: a 1/1 Undying creature has a +1/+1 counter on it, and you cast BSZ for x=2. This causes the creature to die with both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it at the same time, despite the fact that SBAs cause the counters to cancel eachother out at the same time as they also cause the creature to die due to 0 toughness). Maybe it is possible for Bruna to be temporarily enchanted by the aura, since it becomes black as it becomes attached - it goes from being white and legal to attach to being black and illegal to attach at the same time. And then it falls off. I wont make my mind up until I see an [O] ruling, but Im not writing off the possibility of it being ruled that way... ~ Tim
 Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch . YAY COLOR IDENTITY 
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 11:33AM
#75
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2010
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One of the examples in the Comp Rules references a card that says lands can't enter the battlefield. And if a Clone tries to copy a Dryad Arbor , it instead goes right to the 'yard... The more I think about it, the more I think that's the way this will go...
Sean Stackhouse Level Two Judge (Yay!) Maine
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 11:57AM
#76
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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This thread is reminding me of the whole Black Sun's Zenith vs Undying thing [...]
That's a very different situation. There's no rule or effect preventing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters from being put on the same permanent. There's nothing illegal about a permanent having both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. Sure, both situations prompt a cleanup by a state-based action, but that's where the similarity ends.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 12:04PM
#77
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- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
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Yes, it will attach (for a brief moment). The Favor goes from "being a white aura in the graveyard" to "being a black aura attached to Bruna". The Favor does enter the battlefield, then goes to the graveyard due to SBAs, but that's enough for the Favor's ability to trigger. So [O]fficially, yes, the Favor will return.
Wizards.Com Boards Net Rep DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 12:09PM
#78
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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thanks
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 12:12PM
#79
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@SeaDogsFan: That example is from rule:
608.3b. If a permanent spell resolves but its controller can’t put it onto the battlefield, that player puts it into its owner’s graveyard.
The difference is that Clone is a permanent spell, whereas in this thread's original post, the aura is just a card moving from one zone to another.
Sometimes Magic rules are confusing, and situations and card interactions can really get us going, but I'm glad we have a forum to discuss these situations.
Teachable Level 1 Judge
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11 months ago ::
Jul 10, 2012 - 12:28PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2010
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So, with this ruling... Favor returns then goes away. Is the same true if we're casting Divine Favor with these other cards in play? I assume yes, as we're going from "white Aura spell" to "black Aura permanent" but I've learned to defer to the experts on these odd cases.
Sean Stackhouse Level Two Judge (Yay!) Maine
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