it gets all abilities from what it copies, so it gets the ETB trigger from the sprite or protection from emmy
however the extra turn from emmy is for casting her, so you won't get that
it gets all abilities from what it copies, so it gets the ETB trigger from the sprite or protection from emmyhowever the extra turn from emmy is for casting her, so you won't get that
Also, Emmy and copy-Emmy are not destroyed. They are simply put into their owner's graveyards as a state based action. (And the copy will not trigger to shuffle the graveyard back into the library.)
Also, Emmy and copy-Emmy are not destroyed. They are simply put into their owner's graveyards as a state based action. (And the copy will not trigger to shuffle the graveyard back into the library.)
no and by the way Knight of the Reliquary don't get +1/+1 counter from land, it simply get +1/+1. those two are different things
True, that was a bad example. What about Ajani's Pridemate with +1/+1 counters?
noand by the way Knight of the Reliquary don't get +1/+1 counter from land, it simply get +1/+1. those two are different things[/quote]True, that was a bad example. What about Ajani's Pridemate
no and by the way Knight of the Reliquary don't get +1/+1 counter from land, it simply get +1/+1. those two are different things
True, that was a bad example. What about Ajani's Pridemate with +1/+1 counters?
Counters are not copiable characteristics.. It won't copied by Clone or Phyrexian Metamorph or other copy cards
noand by the way Knight of the Reliquary don't get +1/+1 counter from land, it simply get +1/+1. those two are different things[/quote]True, that was a bad example. What about Ajani's Pridemate
it doesn't copy counters, so it gets the same bonus as the original Knight of the Reliquary (because it doesn't use counters), but as Ajani's Pridemate he will start at 2/2, no matter what the original is
it doesn't copy counters, so it gets the same bonus as the original Knight of the Reliquary (because it doesn't use counters), but as Ajani's Pridemate he will start at 2/2, no m
Though if Metamorph copies something that would enter with counters, it will get those counters.eg. Vigean Hydropon , Aven Riftwatcher , Belligerent Hatchling
Cloudshift and its many brethren make flash not a nessessity. There are many ways to make the Metamorph enter the battlefield while a spell is on the stack
Cloudshift and its many brethren make flash not a nessessity. There are many ways to make the Metamorph enter the battlefield while a spell is on the stack
Just to be clear... if you copy Emrakul with a Metamorph, they will both die to the "legend rule". At that point, his triggered ability to shuffle your graveyard absolutely WILL trigger for both the original and the metamorph.
It works the same way that a Phantasmal Image copy of a Driver of the Dead will trigger the ability when the Image dies, and is able to bring itself back from the graveyard to copy the Driver again.
"Clones" remain a copy until it hits the graveyard, but it DOES hit the graveyard as the copy, so any triggered abilities resulting from that, will occur.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Just to be clear... if you copy Emrakul with a Metamorph, they will both die to the "legend rule". At that point, his triggered ability to shuffle your graveyard absolutely WILL trigger for both the original and the metamorph.It works the same way th
Incorrect, because Emrakul has an "enter the graveyard" trigger rather than a "leaves the battlefield" trigger. It triggers based on the object's appearance in the graveyard, where the Metamorph does not have the ability.
Incorrect, because Emrakul has an "enter the graveyard" trigger rather than a "leaves the battlefield" trigger. It triggers based on the object's appearance in the graveyard, where the Metamorph does not have the ability.
Incorrect, because Emrakul has an "enter the graveyard" trigger rather than a "leaves the battlefield" trigger. It triggers based on the object's appearance in the graveyard, where the Metamorph does not have the ability.
It is absolutely correct. You are correct on that it is a "put into the graveyard from anywhere". But like I said, it remains a copy even as it hits the graveyard, at which point it turns back to the original clone card.
It is absolutely correct. You are correct on that it is a "put into the graveyard from anywhere". But like I said, it remains a copy even as it hits the graveyard, at which point it turns back to the original clone card.
No, rezzhan is correct. Emrakul's ability is not a leaves the battlefield ability, so it doesn't match any of the types of abilities that are described in 603.6d. This means it triggers based on its appearance in the graveyard, and it's never in the graveyard as an emrakul. Its copy ability only works on the battlefield.
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone “from anywhere” is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.
603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to “look back in time” to determine if these abilities trigger.
604.2. Static abilities create continuous effects, some of which are prevention effects or replacement effects. These effects are active as long as the permanent with the ability remains on the battlefield and has the ability, or as long as the object with the ability remains in the appropriate zone, as described in rule 112.6.
No, rezzhan is correct. Emrakul's ability is not a leaves the battlefield ability, so it doesn't match any of the types of abilities that are described in 603.6d. This means it triggers based on its appearance in the graveyard, and it's never in the
It goes straight from being an Emrakul on the battlefield to being a Metamorph in the graveyard. There's never a point where it's an Emrakul in the graveyard.
Leaves-the-battlefield abilities look at the game state right before the permanent left the battlefield. That's why abilities like undying will trigger even on a Phyrexian Metamorph copying something with the undying ability. However, most triggered abilities (including Emrakul's enter-the-graveyard ability) look at the game state right after the event. In the case of an Emrakul-Metamorph dying, there's just a Metamorph in the graveyard, so there's isn't a triggered ability there to trigger.
It goes straight from being an Emrakul on the battlefield to being a Metamorph in the graveyard. There's never a point where it's an Emrakul in the graveyard.Leaves-the-battlefield abilities look at the game state right before the permanent left the
I wish I knew where to look up rulings, cause I know that it "sees" itself die as a copy. It hits the graveyard, and triggers the ability. State based actions make the metamorph in the graveyard it's original form. But, it has to hit the graveyard (which triggers) in order for the state based actions to put it back to original form.
I wish I knew where to look up rulings, cause I know that it "sees" itself die as a copy. It hits the graveyard, and triggers the ability. State based actions make the metamorph in the graveyard it's original form. But, it has to hit the graveyard (
400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence.there is no time that Phyrexian Metamorph is Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Ok, I'm just getting confused, and I don't even think I care anymore lol. Emrakul isn't even standard anymore, so whatever.
I did read a post on daily mtg about the combo with Phantasmal Image and Driver of the Dead . They said, the Image dies and triggers the Driver's ability, when the ability resolves, you are able to target the Image in the graveyard to bring it back as a copy of the Driver again.
That's where I got that from. The article can be found here:
Ok, I'm just getting confused, and I don't even think I care anymore lol. Emrakul isn't even standard anymore, so whatever.I did read a post on daily mtg about the combo with Phantasmal Image and Driver of the
yes, that combo works, because it is a death trigger
Emrakul doesn't have a death trigger, it has an "enter the graveyard" trigger, which is different in that scenario the Metamorph will die as Emrakul, but enter the graveyard as Metamorph
yes, that combo works, because it is a death triggerEmrakul doesn't have a death trigger, it has an "enter the graveyard" trigger, which is differentin that scenario the Metamorph will die as Emrakul, but enter the graveyard as Metamorph(also that co
704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.
704.5b If a player attempted to draw a card from a library with no cards in it since the last time state-based actions were checked, he or she loses the game.
704.5c If a player has ten or more poison counters, he or she loses the game. Ignore this rule in Two-Headed Giant games; see rule 704.5u instead.
704.5d If a token is phased out, or is in a zone other than the battlefield, it ceases to exist.
704.5e If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. If a copy of a card is in any zone other than the stack or the battlefield, it ceases to exist.
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. Regeneration can’t replace this event.
704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
704.5h If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and it’s been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch since the last time state-based actions were checked, that creature is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
704.5i If a planeswalker has loyalty 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard.
704.5j If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are on the battlefield, all are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the "planeswalker uniqueness rule."
704.5k If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are on the battlefield, all are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the "legend rule." If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule doesn’t apply.
704.5m If two or more permanents have the supertype world, all except the one that has been a permanent with the world supertype on the battlefield for the shortest amount of time are put into their owners’ graveyards. In the event of a tie for the shortest amount of time, all are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the "world rule."
704.5n If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard.
704.5p If an Equipment or Fortification is attached to an illegal permanent, it becomes unattached from that permanent. It remains on the battlefield.
704.5q If a creature is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield. Similarly, if a permanent that’s neither an Aura, an Equipment, nor a Fortification is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield.
704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
704.5s If a permanent with an ability that says it can’t have more than N counters of a certain kind on it has more than N counters of that kind on it, all but N of those counters are removed from it.
704.5t In a Two-Headed Giant game, if a team has 0 or less life, that team loses the game. See rule 810, "Two-Headed Giant Variant."
704.5u In a Two-Headed Giant game, if a team has fifteen or more poison counters, that team loses the game. See rule 810, "Two-Headed Giant Variant."
704.5v In a Commander game, a player that’s been dealt 21 or more combat damage by the same commander over the course of the game loses the game. See rule 903, "Commander."
704.5w In an Archenemy game, if a non-ongoing scheme card is face up in the command zone, and it isn’t the source of a triggered ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack, that scheme card is turned face down and put on the bottom of its owner’s scheme deck. See rule 904, "Archenemy."
Here is the complete list of state based actions. You can check them, but you won't find one that proves your point:Spoiler:
Show
704.5. The state-based actions are as follows:704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.704
Hmm... I didn't know put into the graveyard from anywhere didn't apply to dieing. I'm just confused. If the Image can trigger the Driver when it hits the graveyard, how is that different from put into the graveyard from anywhere? Anywhere includes the battlefield.
Hmm... I didn't know put into the graveyard from anywhere didn't apply to dieing. I'm just confused. If the Image can trigger the Driver when it hits the graveyard, how is that different from put into the graveyard from anywhere? Anywhere includes th
the Image died as Driver and entered the graveyard as Image the trigger asks "who died", not "who entered the graveyard", that's why it works
it is a subtle difference, but there aren't many cards that have that fun fact: Progenitus can never "die" because of its ability and for similar reasons
the Image died as Driver and entered the graveyard as Imagethe trigger asks "who died", not "who entered the graveyard", that's why it worksit is a subtle difference, but there aren't many cards that have thatfun fact: Progenitus
Are you saying that's sufficiently different, or are you saying the article is wrong?
Driver of the Dead triggers on "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield". Emrakul, the Aeons Torn triggers on "is put into a graveyard from anywhere".Are you saying that's suffic
Treating the same trigger differently when entering the graveyard from the battlefield or from somewhere else would be confusing. The trigger should behave the same in all instances. But the reason it is as it is, is because this rule says so.
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, "When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . ." or "Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . ." An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone "from anywhere" is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.
Treating the same trigger differently when entering the graveyard from the battlefield or from somewhere else would be confusing. The trigger should behave the same in all instances. But the reason it is as it is, is because this rule says so.603.6c
Are you saying that's sufficiently different, or are you saying the article is wrong?
It's the former:
603.6c Leaves-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent moves from the battlefield to another zone, or when a phased-in permanent leaves the game because its owner leaves the game. These are written as, but aren’t limited to, “When [this object] leaves the battlefield, . . .” or “Whenever [something] is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” An ability that attempts to do something to the card that left the battlefield checks for it only in the first zone that it went to. An ability that triggers when a card is put into a certain zone “from anywhere” is never treated as a leaves-the-battlefield ability, even if an object is put into that zone from the battlefield.
Which matters for aformentioned 603.6d.
603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a permanent phases out, abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library, abilities that trigger specifically when an object becomes unattached, abilities that trigger when a player loses control of an object, and abilities that trigger when a player planeswalks away from a plane will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. The game has to “look back in time” to determine if these abilities trigger.
Driver of the Dead triggers on "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield". Emrakul, the Aeons Torn triggers on "is put into a graveyard from anywhere".Are you saying that's suffic
The first kind of trigger cares about what you were on the 'field, so a Phantasmal Image looks like a Driver of the Dead and triggers.
The second kind of trigger cares about what you look like in the 'yard, and in teh Yard the Phyrexian Metamorph is no longer Emmy, but just a weird Artifact Shapeshifter.
Yixlid Jailer shuts down Number 2) (because it cares about the GY), but not Number 1), because it does nothing on the battlefield.
There are two kind of triggers here:1) "leave the Battlefield"2) "Enter the GY"The first kind of trigger cares about what you were on the 'field, so a Phantasmal Image looks like a Driver of the Dead and triggers.The second kind of trigger cares abou
Hmm... I didn't know put into the graveyard from anywhere didn't apply to dieing. I'm just confused. If the Image can trigger the Driver when it hits the graveyard, how is that different from put into the graveyard from anywhere? Anywhere includes the battlefield.
Yes, anywhere includes the Battlefield. But leaving the Battlefield IS the special case. The trouble is, this special case happens so often we tend to think of it as the normal case. The Clone-Emrakul non-triggering is the normal case; it is the Clone-DriverDead triggering that should surprise you.
Check rule 603.6d again: Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked...
So you must check Clone-Emrakul AFTER it went to the Graveyard: it's only a dumb Clone card in the Grave. No trigger.
But Clone-DrivreDead is a special case; Check rule 603.6d again: Leaves-the-battlefieldabilities (...) will trigger based on (...) the appearance of objects prior to the event...
Driver of the Dead triggers from leaving-the-Battlefield: you must check Clone-Driver BEFORE it goes to the Grave, when it is still a Driver, so it triggers.
Yes, anywhere includes the Battlefield. But leaving the Battlefield IS the special case. The trouble is, this special case happens so often we tend to think of it as the normal case.The Clone-Emrakul non-triggering is the normal case; it is the Clone
