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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 8:44AM
#1
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Sol Ring  , Mana Vault  , and Mana Crypt  need to be banned from the format. They're auto-include in any deck and when drawn make games extremely one-sided if your opponents didn't draw them as well. What is my opponent supposed to do when I play an Island into Sol Ring, they play a land that enters the battlefield tapped, and on turn two I drop another Island and play my commander ( Venser, Shaper Savant  ) and bounce their land. I'm up   to their NOTHING. What is my opponent supposed to do when I play Command Tower  into Sol Ring into Selesnya Signet  , they play a land, and on my next turn I drop a Plains or a Forest into a turn two Sigarda, Host of Herons  . What the hell do they do? They've already lost the game and it's not even the end of my second turn. These mana rocks lead to explosive starts and extremely one-sided games, especially when coupled with any amount of land destruction. I've been able to play a turn three Karn Liberated  with Sol Ring , Mana Vault , and two lands. They lose, flat out. There is nothing they can do at this point. I have no idea who controls the ban list for this format, but these game-breaking rocks need to go. I don't care if you only have a 1/99 chance to draw each one each game. It happens, and it ruins the fun for whoever did not draw them. I lost count of the amount of concessions that my opponents and I have received due to the blow-out first or second turns these mana rocks provide. For the health of the format, please ban them. They are mindlessly thrown into every single commander deck (for the people who own them; I feel worse for those who don't) and spoil the spirit of the format.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 8:50AM
#2
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I want to see you get Sigara out with only two colored sources.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 8:55AM
#3
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I want to see you get Sigara out with only two colored sources.
I think I left out a Selesnya Signet . It doesn't change the fact that this happens. If you aren't going to address the problem at hand please don't bother posting. Thank you!
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 9:54AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2011
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Where do you stop?
After mana rocks, your next target would be infinite combos, I presume? They are no fun.
Since it seems most metas avoid mass land destruction because it is no fun, do we ban land destruction?
And what after that?
There are always going to be 'auto includes'. If you ban one set of them, the next ones will move into place. Personally, my beef is the infinite combos. But you really can't ban them because separately the cards involved are often not all that threatening.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 11:10AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2009
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It almost sounds like you're dueling. If that's the case, there's a French 1v1 banned list floating around somewhere on the interweb, and I'm pretty sure it lists Sol Ring as being banned or restricted. Regardless of whether you're dueling or not, it sounds like this is a problem that needs to be sorted out by your playgroup, and not the Rules Committee. In fact, the RC encourages players to self regulate their metas, as what's fun for one playgroup might be loathed by another. Keeping the banned list short ensures that individual playgroups can set their own house rules or agree on banning certain cards, allowing all kinds of metas to grow and evolve. It sounds like maybe your group needs to discuss this notion. Also, go here and click on "philosophy".
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 12:24PM
#6
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OP is being ridiculous. This is a multiplayer format. The venser bounces one guys land but then the rest of the table pounds him.
See above post... do a search for 1v1 ban list and you will find that over powered mana rocks are banned. No crypt vault or sol ring allowed.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 12:30PM
#7
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OP is being ridiculous. This is a multiplayer format.
Oh really? You are aware that some people don't like getting ganged up on or the general politics of multiplayer games, so they play this format in duels. A lot of people do this, especially on MTGO.
The venser bounces one guys land but then the rest of the table pounds him.
In a duel there is nobody else to pound me. The other guy usually just scoops because he's way behind.
See above post... do a search for 1v1 ban list and you will find that over powered mana rocks are banned. No crypt vault or sol ring allowed.
That's nice. It's not enforceable on MTGO, and I don't think it's good for the health of the format to allow these rocks to be playable anywhere other than a no ban list game.
It almost sounds like you're dueling. If that's the case, there's a French 1v1 banned list floating around somewhere on the interweb, and I'm pretty sure it lists Sol Ring as being banned or restricted. Regardless of whether you're dueling or not, it sounds like this is a problem that needs to be sorted out by your playgroup, and not the Rules Committee. In fact, the RC encourages players to self regulate their metas, as what's fun for one playgroup might be loathed by another. Keeping the banned list short ensures that individual playgroups can set their own house rules or agree on banning certain cards, allowing all kinds of metas to grow and evolve. It sounds like maybe your group needs to discuss this notion. Also, go here and click on "philosophy".
My playgroup is MTGO. There is no rules enforcement for the French banned list. And yes, I am dueling. I don't like getting ganged up on.
Where do you stop?
After mana rocks, your next target would be infinite combos, I presume? They are no fun.
Since it seems most metas avoid mass land destruction because it is no fun, do we ban land destruction?
And what after that?
There are always going to be 'auto includes'. If you ban one set of them, the next ones will move into place. Personally, my beef is the infinite combos. But you really can't ban them because separately the cards involved are often not all that threatening.
Slippery slope argument? Come on now, there's a big difference between a deck archetype (c-c-c-combo!) and three overpowered mana rocks. I don't care what type of deck people play, but I do care when there are a few cards that are auto-include in every single deck regardless of the archetype.
You can avoid playing against land destruction, combo, control, aggro, or whatever type of archetype rustles your jimmies. You can't avoid three cards that are no-brainers for any commander deck on MTGO.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 12:53PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2009
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While I appreciate your frustration, calling for a format wide banning of mana rocks due to the degeneracy of EDH play on MTGO seems a bit drastic. What percentage of total EDH players play solely on MTGO? My guess is it's probably in the single digits. Perhaps you should instead be petitioning Wizards for better 1v1 rules integration, or the MTGO community for a greater level of interactivity. I don't play MTGO, so I don't know if that's a viable option. I'm sorry your experiences suck, I really am, but I'd wager that you're in the minority here simply given your means of playing the game. Them's the breaks.
And if possible, I'd recommend finding a play group with actual people you can talk to and what not. I don't know what your tangible collection is like, so it might be cost prohibitive, let alone impossible depending upon your location and access to LGS/other players. If you can join a real life play group, you're gonna have to get over that dislike of getting ganged up and learn how to play the political game.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 1:31PM
#9
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While I appreciate your frustration, calling for a format wide banning of mana rocks due to the degeneracy of EDH play on MTGO seems a bit drastic. What percentage of total EDH players play solely on MTGO? My guess is it's probably in the single digits. Perhaps you should instead be petitioning Wizards for better 1v1 rules integration, or the MTGO community for a greater level of interactivity. I don't play MTGO, so I don't know if that's a viable option. I'm sorry your experiences suck, I really am, but I'd wager that you're in the minority here simply given your means of playing the game. Them's the breaks.
And if possible, I'd recommend finding a play group with actual people you can talk to and what not. I don't know what your tangible collection is like, so it might be cost prohibitive, let alone impossible depending upon your location and access to LGS/other players. If you can join a real life play group, you're gonna have to get over that dislike of getting ganged up and learn how to play the political game.
Magic is Magic whether I play it in paper or online. The same degenerate mana rocks would be just as prevalent if it weren't for cost implications (especially with regards to Mana Crypt) and general scarcity of these older cards. Not everyone has a Mana Crypt or Mana Vault lying around, but everyone now has easy access to Sol Ring . You'd probably be singing the same tune if you were blown out (or blew out other people) in the manner I'm describing.
Clans seem to be pretty scarce on MTGO (the equivalent of a play group) but that's not really a solution to the brokeness of these cards. They need to go. They good enough to berestricted in competitive play and they need to be outright banned in official "casual" formats.
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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 2:24PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2009
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What's with the quotey "casual"? EDH is as casual as you or I or any playgroup wants it to be. Not everyone's looking to min max, but it seems that those that are stick to MTGO. And that's the problem. You can't seem to see past your own experience, which accounts for less than one one hundrendth of a percent of the total EDH community. Anyhow, the majority of EDH players don't duel, and the ones that do are often only interested in a zero sum game. You say the format is broken, but I say the way you're playing is broken. There is a level of social interaction to EDH that you obviously aren't getting on MTGO that would otherwise be available in an actual play group, and that makes ALL the difference. When you have that interpersonal communication happening, the game stops being about making the optimal play or playing to win, and instead becomes more about winning the hearts and minds of your opponents. You're right, the cards are broken, but when playing in a 5 player FFA game they are far more manageable, even on the first turn. Any player that can plunk down a 2nd turn Sigarda in a 5 player FFA is overextending and will likely get his or her clock cleaned. There's nuance to the game in that setting, a nuance you don't seem privy to. And I'd wager that real life multiplayer FFA games account for the majority of EDH hours played, which is why those mana rocks won't get banned and why they don't need to. It's also why you're likely to see more people agree with me than with you.
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