JVL is not building on what most players consider a budget. His decks are just tier 2 decks with less copies of expensive cards. Half of that is the fault of the way the game is designed, but I think most budget players just want cool decks to play, not just trying to win against better decks more often. Conley is a boss at rogue decks, he could totally write that article good.
Make Conley Woods write Building on a Budget. JVL is not building on what most players consider a budget. His decks are just tier 2 decks with less copies of expensive cards. Half of that is the fault of the way the game is designed, but I think most
JVL is not building on what most players consider a budget. His decks are just tier 2 decks with less copies of expensive cards. Half of that is the fault of the way the game is designed, but I think most budget players just want cool decks to play, not just trying to win against better decks more often. Conley is a boss at rogue decks, he could totally write that article good.
This is a really good idea. BoaB would be quite interesting from Conley's pov.
This is a really good idea. BoaB would be quite interesting from Conley's pov.
Vedalken Entrancer is an example of what may be one of the main reasons modern art descriptions are less likely to mention what a card does. Our blue skinned wizarding friend no longer seems to have the power to cause things to 'untap' at all.
Vedalken Entrancer is an example of what may be one of the main reasons modern art descriptions are less likely to mention what a card does. Our blue skinned wizarding friend no longer seems to have the power to cause
And for those who haven't seen Vedalken Entrancer 's art close-up before, take a second, closer look at his squiggly chest wrap. Notice anything unusual?
And for those who haven't seen Vedalken Entrancer 's art close-up before, take a second, closer look at his squiggly chest wrap. Notice anything unusual?
I think that both artworks can be somewhat considered unfitting. Having some flashy light to describe any magical ability is kind of generic. Heck, I didn't know the card Vedalken Dismisser so at first glance I thought I was looking at a reprint. Maybe what it needed is some context or some way to make it unique. Perhaps showing the victim or giving the character a special motion or gesture (Make the dissmisser look like he's really dissmissing or the entrancer like he's really entrancing).
And for those who haven't seen Vedalken Entrancer 's art close-up before, take a second, closer look at his squiggly chest wrap. Notice anything unusual?
"Moon"? Is that supposed to hint to Moonfolk in some way maybe?
I think that both artworks can be somewhat considered unfitting. Having some flashy light to describe any magical ability is kind of generic. Heck, I didn't know the card Vedalken Dismisser so at first glance I tho
I think that both artworks can be somewhat considered unfitting. Having some flashy light to describe any magical ability is kind of generic. Heck, I didn't know the card Vedalken Dismisser so at first glance I thought I was looking at a reprint. Maybe what it needed is some context or some way to make it unique. Perhaps showing the victim or giving the character a special motion or gesture (Make the dissmisser look like he's really dissmissing or the entrancer like he's really entrancing).
JVL is not building on what most players consider a budget. His decks are just tier 2 decks with less copies of expensive cards. Half of that is the fault of the way the game is designed, but I think most budget players just want cool decks to play, not just trying to win against better decks more often. Conley is a boss at rogue decks, he could totally write that article good.
I won't make allusions to the author's Conley Woods fanboyism. Oh, wait, I already did? Shoot.
Brian David Marshall is the best and only GOOD player of this game that was widely acknowledged as the writer of BoaB. While this may seem dismissive of past writers, we know that Jacob van Lunen's skills do NOT lie in "budget." This has NOTHING to do with how this game is designed, as BDM proved, and the skill with which BDM managed the task of making Budget decks work in interesting ways implicates the fault not on "design" in the game, but approach of the authors. JVL did not approach the BoaB column with the same perspective as BDM, and should not be faulted for it. I am happy that JVL is getting a column that better suites his skills, so that the readers of the column will not HARP on him constantly for not living up to the bar BDM set. Yes, this is BDM fanboyism.
That said, Conley Woods may also be unable to make budget decks. Just because he can make rogue decks, doesn't mean that those decks will also be "budget." That is, if anything, what JVL's approach aimed for as well, to find niche approaches to common deck types, to fight deck types, specific solutions, and rounded strategies. If you wanted Conley to do BoaB, then I fear you will just get more of JVL, and only the man's fans will keep the forums up. Redefining what "BoaB" means to preserve a column for an author capable of doing what another author also did but which was largely considered NOT true to "BoaB"? Yeah, that won't fly, McFly.
I won't make allusions to the author's Conley Woods fanboyism. Oh, wait, I already did? Shoot.Brian David Marshall is the best and only GOOD player of this game that was widely acknowledged as the writer of BoaB. While this may seem dismissive of pas
There are still some twigs and grass shoots that make Goliath look normal-sized, and I guess that's why it's always been hard for me to be fooled. I wish I could say the smaller ones helped, but... I swear they're just mini zombies!
There are still some twigs and grass shoots that make Goliath look normal-sized, and I guess that's why it's always been hard for me to be fooled. I wish I could say the smaller ones helped, but... I swear they're
Just chiming in to say that the original Kaja Foglio art is still the best here. Primal Clay is best played a bit silly. No need to have badass dragon clay figures; just goofy expressions on half-formed clay people works.
Re Primal Clay Arcana:Just chiming in to say that the original Kaja Foglio art is still the best here. Primal Clay is best played a bit silly. No need to have badass dragon clay figures; just goofy expressions on half-formed clay people works.
Just chiming in to say that the original Kaja Foglio art is still the best here. Primal Clay is best played a bit silly. No need to have badass dragon clay figures; just goofy expressions on half-formed clay people works.
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obvious this a reference to Adam and Eve. What makes the glowing, golden hands holding it all actually God's hands.
Nice, huh?
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obv
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obvious this a reference to Adam and Eve. What makes the glowing, golden hands holding it all actually God's hands.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half of Adam's leg and a couple of swirly lines coming off Eve where she's still forming.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obvious this a reference to Adam and Eve. What makes the glowing, golden hands holding it all actually God's hands.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half of Adam's leg and a couple of swirly lines coming off Eve where she's still forming.
I do not see a snake either. The artist might have meant the hands to be God sculpting Adam and Eve, but I would not say it is obvious. This is a game about magic, and wizards create living beings all the time.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obvious this a reference to Adam and Eve. What makes the glowing, golden hands holding it all actually God's hands.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half of Adam's leg and a couple of swirly lines coming off Eve where she's still forming.
It doesn't really take a snake to make the imagery an Abrahamaic "adam-eve" thing. This is basic stuff, though: many religions have a "first man, first woman" crafted from [dust, mud, clay, aether, blood of some giant cow or dragon]. The legends far pre-date records of myths of a garden of Eden or whatever.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half
But anyway, 5 guilds on each of the two first extension, that's cool!
And yeah! Azorius and Izzet in the first one! Whoohoo! Go White/Blue/Red!
Not sure if want.But anyway, 5 guilds on each of the two first extension, that's cool!And yeah! Azorius and Izzet in the first one! Whoohoo! Go White/Blue/Red!
Love the return of the guilds. I also like that they are having 5 in each set and all of them for the last one. The signet colorations are neat along with the new format for the ones that are changed. I especially wonder what they are going to do for Dimir, Boros, and Golgari in terms of mechanics. I doubt Transmute will return and Dredge is even less likely.
Love the return of the guilds. I also like that they are having 5 in each set and all of them for the last one. The signet colorations are neat along with the new format for the ones that are changed. I especially wonder what they are going to do
Finally, the return draws nigh! I love it already, though I'm not sure with five guilds in each set. This is definitely going to be another flavor than original Ravnica. They most likely did it, so they could show some kind of development by the end of the block. This now is definitely going to be about the destruction of the guilds. Gatecrash most likely denotes to the ten city gates of Ravnica, and "Sinker", well, speaks good enough on its own, for now. Jeez, I so hope you guys don't screw up my favorite setting.
Finally, the return draws nigh! I love it already, though I'm not sure with five guilds in each set. This is definitely going to be another flavor than original Ravnica. They most likely did it, so they could show some kind of development by the end
Are we just incinerating the old story then? I seem to distinctly remember the guilds dissolving in, well, Dissension due to the machinations of multiple guilds. Plus there were a lot of important characters (Razia, Boros Archangel , Sisters of Stone Death , Szadek, Lord of Secrets , Momir Vig, Simic Visionary , Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran , Rakdos the Defiler and then some) dead by the end of it all. So how did the guilds suddenly get better? I was reasonably certain the guild collapse was confirmed as recently as Agents of Artifice, the first Planeswalker novel. Did I miss something or have they finally decided that story doesn't matter at all beyond the very basics?
Eh. Whatever. Izzet's back, and my Counter Fire deck shall rise once more. (Although obviously with less power)
Are we just incinerating the old story then? I seem to distinctly remember the guilds dissolving in, well, Dissension due to the machinations of multiple guilds. Plus there were a lot of important characters ( R
I can't wait for the Comic-Con vid to be posted on youtube. (I'm honestly shocked it hasn't been put up yet).
Edit: Aha! it is up, I just couldn't find it before. *grumble mumble* For others who may be unable to find it and are interested it's HERE
I can't wait for the Comic-Con vid to be posted on youtube. (I'm honestly shocked it hasn't been put up yet).Edit: Aha! it is up, I just couldn't find it before. *grumble mumble*For others who may be unable to find it and are interested it's HERE
Interesting that set 2 will be drafted by itself. How will set 3 fit in? My prediction: set 3 will be drafted with both the 1st or the 2nd set separately, e.g. 113 and 223 drafting.
Interesting that set 2 will be drafted by itself. How will set 3 fit in? My prediction: set 3 will be drafted with both the 1st or the 2nd set separately, e.g. 113 and 223 drafting.
Interesting that set 2 will be drafted by itself. How will set 3 fit in? My prediction: set 3 will be drafted with both the 1st or the 2nd set separately, e.g. 113 and 223 drafting.
Check the vid link I posted.
RTR is a large set and will be drafted by itself. GTC is a large set and will be drafted by itself. Sinker is a small set and will be drafted as Sinker, GTC, RTR.
Check the vid link I posted.RTR is a large set and will be drafted by itself.GTC is a large set and will be drafted by itself.Sinker is a small set and will be drafted as Sinker, GTC, RTR.
Also, it seems to not have been mentioned, but that art actually has a much deeper meaning. If you look with attention in the lower part between the woman and the man, there is a snake. Being it that the card is named "primal clay", it seems very obvious this a reference to Adam and Eve. What makes the glowing, golden hands holding it all actually God's hands.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half of Adam's leg and a couple of swirly lines coming off Eve where she's still forming.
It doesn't really take a snake to make the imagery an Abrahamaic "adam-eve" thing. This is basic stuff, though: many religions have a "first man, first woman" crafted from [dust, mud, clay, aether, blood of some giant cow or dragon]. The legends far pre-date records of myths of a garden of Eden or whatever.
I see there a semi-coiled snake with its head faced towards the female figure in the clay, which also has a strong relation with the whole Adam and Eve thing.
Yeah, I was going to say. "The clay is actually very small"? The hands are just big. They're glowy golden hands sculpting humanity out of primal clay, seems fairly obvious they belong to God. I don't see the snake though, there's just the lower half
That would make even more sense, then, with Adam and Eve.
Anyway...guilds! Whee! :D I, too, am curious as to how the storyline will be played out, but perhaps there will be more loose affiliations to certain color pairs than the same set of organization that existed before? /shrug
That would make even more sense, then, with Adam and Eve.Anyway...guilds! Whee! :D I, too, am curious as to how the storyline will be played out, but perhaps there will be more loose affiliations to certain color pairs than the same set of organizati
Oh, yay, new guild logos! Love the Izzet, Azorius, Gruul, and Dimir ones.
Some of the guild symbols were redesigned, others the same: Gruul is almost completely different, with the "cross" below the flame added rather than what was essentially a burning tree with an eye in it (supposedly often made of poo); Rakdos became a horizontally-divided skull-and-flames; Golgari lost the "Recycle" motif and instead just gets the insect in the middle (but now looks like Dimir a little more); Azorious is partially redesigned, losing the maze= in the middle for concentric rings of "runes"; Boros got less of a radiant splay around the fist ; Izzet redesigned their dragon (this happens frequently ); The Orzhov, Dimir, Simic and Selesnya symbols are the same. These often differ only in the hue changes made to indicate the "two colors" that make the guild identity up.
Some of the guild symbols were redesigned, others the same:Gruul is almost completely different, with the "cross" below the flame added rather than what was essentially a burning tree with an eye in it (supposedly
Are we just incinerating the old story then? I seem to distinctly remember the guilds dissolving in, well, Dissension due to the machinations of multiple guilds. Plus there were a lot of important characters (Razia, Boros Archangel , Sisters of Stone Death , Szadek, Lord of Secrets , Momir Vig, Simic Visionary , Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran , Rakdos the Defiler and then some) dead by the end of it all. So how did the guilds suddenly get better? I was reasonably certain the guild collapse was confirmed as recently as Agents of Artifice, the first Planeswalker novel. Did I miss something or have they finally decided that story doesn't matter at all beyond the very basics?
Eh. Whatever. Izzet's back, and my Counter Fire deck shall rise once more. (Although obviously with less power)
Ok, if you actually read the novels, the survival of the guilds was explained at the end of Dissension. Presumably, the world tryed to get by without the guilds for a time, during which the events of Agents of Artifice took place. After two years, in the epilogue of the Dissension novel, a new Guildpact was formed that relied more on legal power rather than magical energy to enforce itself. With powerful arcane force no longer being the power behind the Guildpact, it would be harder to break using it's own laws. The Dimir were removed as an "official" guild and were not a part of the new Guildpact, but of course, they stuck around in reality to be the malevolant force they've always been.
Ok, if you actually read the novels, the survival of the guilds was explained at the end of Dissension. Presumably, the world tryed to get by without the guilds for a time, during which the events of Agents of Artifice took place. After two years, in
Are we just incinerating the old story then? I seem to distinctly remember the guilds dissolving in, well, Dissension due to the machinations of multiple guilds. Plus there were a lot of important characters (Razia, Boros Archangel , Sisters of Stone Death , Szadek, Lord of Secrets , Momir Vig, Simic Visionary , Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran , Rakdos the Defiler and then some) dead by the end of it all. So how did the guilds suddenly get better? I was reasonably certain the guild collapse was confirmed as recently as Agents of Artifice, the first Planeswalker novel. Did I miss something or have they finally decided that story doesn't matter at all beyond the very basics?
Eh. Whatever. Izzet's back, and my Counter Fire deck shall rise once more. (Although obviously with less power)
Ok, if you actually read the novels, the survival of the guilds was explained at the end of Dissension. Presumably, the world tryed to get by without the guilds for a time, during which the events of Agents of Artifice took place. After two years, in the epilogue of the Dissension novel, a new Guildpact was formed that relied more on legal power rather than magical energy to enforce itself. With powerful arcane force no longer being the power behind the Guildpact, it would be harder to break using it's own laws. The Dimir were removed as an "official" guild and were not a part of the new Guildpact, but of course, they stuck around in reality to be the malevolant force they've always been.
This craps (if you'll forgive the term) on what the Guildpact was there for, in the first place. To magically stop inter-guild conflict -- or rather, the warring of superpowers like an immortal dragon, a league of destructive righteous Templar angels, a chaotic dragon, and the vile machinations of a Illith--Vampire. Quite essentially, it was there to force Szadek and Rakdos into subservience, force the imperiousness of Razia to accept a yoke of forbearance, and prevent line of Arbiters (or, I guess, Isperia) from locking the whole world into a robotic trance of conformity. The Orzhov were there to enforce the rights of the individuals as a group, while the Gruul were to protect the planet from the depredations of the population, and the Simic the inverse (and the Selesnya to find balance between the two).
Without these bindings, these "guilds" would slip into chaos, demons and angels and sphinxes doing ... just whatever. The guildpact was, in almost every way, a prison to lock down superpowers.
Now: Razia is dead leaving the Boros without teeth, Szadek is a ghost and functionless but the House Dimir is still largely a mystery, Savra and the Gorgon triplets are gone and replaced by Savra's brother; Augustin doesn't need to be the Arbiter, they can just appoint a new puppet and likely have; I have no clue why the Conclave dissolved, it was alive and well at the end of Dissension, just that there was disconformity along its perimeter; the Gruul were not respected by nor were respecting the others; Niv-Mizzet supposedly planeswalked and disappeared like a coward, leaving many to suspect he was, in fact, a planeswalker (nope! fooled you!); the Obzedat had machinations in which they enabled certain things to occur aiding in the Simic and Nivvy, but never stepped out of its role as arbiter between the low and the high (as this cuts into its bottom line), which I suppose is no longer a valuable thing as Agyrem is no longer full;
And you are telling me that there are now merfolk on the plane. Not just any merfolk, but one of them became leader of the Simic Combine. I can guess where this is going:
1. Planeswalkers felt that blue-aligned and water-affliliated Vedalken were not good enough, so peppered the place with talking fish; or 2. the Simic decided that they needed another blue-aligned, water-affiliated race and abandoned work on perfecting Vedalken for life in the big city and invented merfolk, and felt fish-fins and gills worked much better on dry land than Vedalken; or 3. there's just one, either coming from another plane or being engineered, and is trying to create more of its race (last of a house, long bereft of existence, much like Momir Vig himself) by ascending through the ranks of the Combine's arcane and convoluted academic system, years and years of study and beaurocratic red-tape--cutting to finally make it to Professor, then Professor Emeritus, then lastly the leader of the Combine (whew! that only takes DECADES!).
Ok, if you actually read the novels, the survival of the guilds was explained at the end of Dissension. Presumably, the world tryed to get by without the guilds for a time, during which the events of Agents of Artifice took place. After two years, in
My first reaction to the Return to Ravnica announcement was to recall the Great Designer Search 2 Utopia - monochromatic vs gold (or hybrid). I didn't realize that the guilds were already destroyed. But they weren't. More Guild Wars then? New personae, but same color alignments (not wedge)? I was hoping for something along the lines of Guardian/Enemy of the Guildpact, some multicolor hate, some color wars, like protection from nonblack. Well, I can still reasonably expect to see my second reaction to the announcement - Cities on Flame (with Rock n' Roll)...Which someone probably referenced, when Ravnica was first released.
My first reaction to the Return to Ravnica announcement was to recall the Great Designer Search 2 Utopia - monochromatic vs gold (or hybrid). I didn't realize that the guilds were already destroyed. But they weren't. More Guild Wars then? New per
Did you know? Plovers (charadriiform birds, generally "shorebirds") are coastal birds that feed on small vertebrates, invertebrates, and have a specially reinforced upper bill designed to help them pry open the shells of various mollusks and crustaceans (some are better or more adapted to this behavior than others). These are essentially birds that dwell on the shores of oceans/seas, rather than along rivers, lakes or ponds. Precisely not the environment Lorwyn proves itself to provide. As such, they are out of place, and an example of where Wizards did not do the research (likely, the name was chosen for aesthetic purposes).
Did you know? Plovers (charadriiform birds, generally "shorebirds") are coastal birds that feed on small vertebrates, invertebrates, and have a specially reinforced upper bill designed to help them pry open the shells of various mollusks and crustace
Everything about this game points to us planeswalkers running around for hours during combat searching for mana sources while playing the most dangerous game.
I guess it's possible (and more acceptable for me), to think of Ranger's Path as knowledge, as locations of nearby Forests-- pre-exploring and familiarizing an areas' forests allows you to craft it into a spell, a mental mapping of the sources of mana. So when you tap into it, you instantly get access to an area's mana because somebody did the background work of identifying where it is in clumps.
Everything about this game points to us planeswalkers running around for hours during combat searching for mana sources while playing the most dangerous game.I guess it's possible (and more acceptable for me), to think of Ranger's Path
Everything about this game points to us planeswalkers running around for hours during combat searching for mana sources while playing the most dangerous game.
I guess it's possible (and more acceptable for me), to think of Ranger's Path as knowledge, as locations of nearby Forests-- pre-exploring and familiarizing an areas' forests allows you to craft it into a spell, a mental mapping of the sources of mana. So when you tap into it, you instantly get access to an area's mana because somebody did the background work of identifying where it is in clumps.
Unless it is not the planeswalker himself who is doing the "cultivating ," is a "kodama " whose "reach " is being used, or is a "ranger " walking any sort of "path ." Rather, the 'Walker is using the experience of minions or of past deeds to use skills, use the skills of others indirectly, or learn new spells (by the actions of others or increasing knowledge).
Moreover, some cards may not be so easy to map into "you are a planeswalker."
Unless it is not the planeswalker himself who is doing the " cultivating ," is a " kodama " whose " reach " is being used, or is a " ranger
Everything about this game points to us planeswalkers running around for hours during combat searching for mana sources while playing the most dangerous game.
I guess it's possible (and more acceptable for me), to think of Ranger's Path as knowledge, as locations of nearby Forests-- pre-exploring and familiarizing an areas' forests allows you to craft it into a spell, a mental mapping of the sources of mana. So when you tap into it, you instantly get access to an area's mana because somebody did the background work of identifying where it is in clumps.
Unless it is not the planeswalker himself who is doing the "cultivating ," is a "kodama " whose "reach " is being used, or is a "ranger " walking any sort of "path ." Rather, the 'Walker is using the experience of minions or of past deeds to use skills, use the skills of others indirectly, or learn new spells (by the actions of others or increasing knowledge).
Moreover, some cards may not be so easy to map into "you are a planeswalker."
Right, that's what my second paragraph is about-- collecting the spell from those who have done the ground work.
Unless it is not the planeswalker himself who is doing the " cultivating ," is a " kodama " whose " reach " is being used, or is a " ranger
Everything about this game points to us planeswalkers running around for hours during combat searching for mana sources while playing the most dangerous game.
I guess it's possible (and more acceptable for me), to think of Ranger's Path as knowledge, as locations of nearby Forests-- pre-exploring and familiarizing an areas' forests allows you to craft it into a spell, a mental mapping of the sources of mana. So when you tap into it, you instantly get access to an area's mana because somebody did the background work of identifying where it is in clumps.
I think the canon for lands is that they're memories. So, for example, Ranger's Path is you recalling the time you ran through the treetops, remembering every detail vividly, and deriving power from those memories.
Of course, things get really weird with land destruction, as that is typically flavored as destroying the physical location, which shouldn't be present in the duel.
I think the canon for lands is that they're memories. So, for example, Ranger's Path is you recalling the time you ran through the treetops, remembering every detail vividly, and deriving power from those memories.
Yeah, you have to draw power from land, if it's not there, it can't happen. Of course, you draw power sometimes from lands that aren't even on the plane you're on...
Yeah, you have to draw power from land, if it's not there, it can't happen. Of course, you draw power sometimes from lands that aren't even on the plane you're on...
Today's daily deck looks cool. Thought I'd mention that we have actually seen Palladium Myr in Standard tournaments before, in an old Primeval Titan deck.
Today's daily deck looks cool. Thought I'd mention that we have actually seen Palladium Myr in Standard tournaments before, in an old Primeval Titan deck.
Framed art is beautiful, but you know what they could add to make it incredible? A black-bordered playset of the card with that art.* 1996 World Champion, eat your heart out--this'd be a prize you could use.
Besides, if there's no actual copies of the card that use the art, can you really call it that card's art?
*Though only for Brainstorm; they can't do incredible things with Timetwister because Wizards believes correcting a mistake is untrustworthy.
Framed art is beautiful, but you know what they could add to make it incredible? A black-bordered playset of the card with that art.* 1996 World Champion, eat your heart out--this'd be a prize you could use.Besides, if there's no actual copies of the
Wow, the Brainstorm art is gorgeous! Pleasepleaseplease reprint it so I can have it in foil? Pretty please?
This would go against the whole point of using it as an exclusive prize, wouldn't it?
The art has no meaning without context, save that it is yet another piece of blue-palette, "brain as motif" art. Of which are are dozens. Scale suggests this could even apply to Overwhelming Intellect , given how large it looms, and how "brain equals intelligence" it implies.
(It is ridiculous how much the brain is used as an "aesthetic" in Magic art, as if Magic's art directors and brand literally cannot conceive of any other potential concept to elucidate intellect, searching, or memory unless it has some sort of brain in it.
To further this rant, it is no wonder that Magic used Romero's negatively stupid Dawn of the Dead series to go with "zombies eat brains" motif for Innistrad, a concept that Romero is almost personally and exclusively responsible for, but which doesn't exist in any other fantasy, or even science fiction field from which Magic might take the "zombie" concept from. It's brains, brains, brains, no matter what. Ewww)
This would go against the whole point of using it as an exclusive prize, wouldn't it?[/quote]The art has no meaning without context, save that it is yet another piece of blue-palette, "brain as motif" art. Of which are are dozens. Scale suggests this
First of, Kos himself proves that being dead doesn't prevent you from being a factor in the storyline; Razia is the only one of these characters who I would count on being gone for good, and that's only because we have Feather to replace her. Momir Vig might have cloned himself, Szadek can linger as a ghost, the Sisters might self-zombify or be reconstituted out of sentient grave-moss, Kos might bargain with the Orzhov to have a new body carved out of marble and transmuted with soul-stuff, etc. As for Rakdos, my memory of the Dissension book is vague but I don't think he actually died or anything; Eksperiment Kraj ate him, but he's a demon, he might not especially mind being eaten. Also I have a pet theory, which might or might not have been based in an early piece of fluff, saying that the Rakdos all drink the demon's blood as a ritual of admittance, and conceivably the essence of his corruption could be carried in that blood, enabling him to resurrect himself as long as at least one of his worshippers survives.
I have no clue why the Conclave dissolved, it was alive and well at the end of Dissension, just that there was disconformity along its perimeter
Disconformity is exactly the main thing that would dissolve the Selesnya Conclave, since their entire deal is being a monolithic flock where there's no individuality or dissent. I believe something took out the Chorus dryads at the end of one of the novels, but I don't recall; certainly, a disruption to the unity of the guild would be a massive setback in their case. I just hope that this set will finally give us a card representing the brainwashed hive-mind vessels that were described in the book; they were way too creepy and cool not to use (and had antimagic powers that can be better represented by modern "you can't do X" design technology).
1. Planeswalkers felt that blue-aligned and water-affliliated Vedalken were not good enough, so peppered the place with talking fish; or 2. the Simic decided that they needed another blue-aligned, water-affiliated race and abandoned work on perfecting Vedalken for life in the big city and invented merfolk, and felt fish-fins and gills worked much better on dry land than Vedalken; or 3. there's just one, either coming from another plane or being engineered, and is trying to create more of its race (last of a house, long bereft of existence, much like Momir Vig himself) by ascending through the ranks of the Combine's arcane and convoluted academic system, years and years of study and beaurocratic red-tape--cutting to finally make it to Professor, then Professor Emeritus, then lastly the leader of the Combine (whew! that only takes DECADES!).
As I've said before, the likeliest explanation for there now being merfolk on Ravnica is that there were always merfolk on Ravnica, we just never saw them before because Ravnica is freaking gigantic and we've only seen the tiniest fraction of it.
First of, Kos himself proves that being dead doesn't prevent you from being a factor in the storyline; Razia is the only one of these characters who I would count on being gone for good, and that's only because we have Feather to replace her. Momir
As I've said before, the likeliest explanation for there now being merfolk on Ravnica is that there were always merfolk on Ravnica, we just never saw them before because Ravnica is freaking gigantic and we've only seen the tiniest fraction of it.
We've seen most of it. It is not needful that Ravnica, as a plane, be a sphere much larger than that concerned by the perspective given in the books, or a sphere at all. That is, the plane may well be an undefined geometric shape in the form of a city divided (roughly) into nine sectors localized around the guildhalls (well, seven aboveground, two below what with Rix Maadi and Duskmantle beind subterranean, where the Golgari guildhall is actually just the aboveground primary entrance to the rot farms, which persist in the uppermost layer of the subterra; Skargg is not a "real" guildhall), while the Gruul dwell along the perimeter of Ravnica. Not just a section of it: They live in ALL of the abandoned, ruined regions. We are also told that long ago, Ravnica drained its oceans, however vast that may be. The city lies there, instead. So however large the city is, it is occupied or in the hands/paws/claws/stumps of the Gruul (for whom I have the most pity).
We are told, then, that the Simic Combine have combed the realm for biologicals, or that the Selesnya have sought out elements to "protect" or incorporate, or that the Gruul have adopted as outcast, or that the Izzet have discovered through any other means. As the city spans the plane, it should be understood that there shouldn't be undiscovered regions, or places where these things dwell we do not know. Rather, the realm is in decline because of the expanse of the plane, and it is required for nature to reclaim it to develop a more original ecology rather than the urbanized version "created" by the Guildpact's defense of the depredations of the Izzet, Simic and Orzhov on the populace. No, seriously ... there should be no Merfolk on the plane: There were and are none on Mirrodin, and Memmy stole species from other planes to populate Argentum in the first place; there was plenty of chances to try their hand at that then.
Merfolk are THE blue tribe now, THAT is why they are on Ravnica, and I think there is going to be a half-assed handwave to make it happen. The likes of "You didn't know everything; they were there ... shrug." This isn't intelligent story- and world-building. If Creative and R&D look two years ahead of the release, there are vast amounts of time they have to work at full world-building, concepts for planar design and scope, and catalogues of species that can set limits on the asspulls future writers can create, not this comic-style retcon garbage.
We've seen most of it. It is not needful that Ravnica, as a plane, be a sphere much larger than that concerned by the perspective given in the books, or a sphere at all. That is, the plane may well be an undefined geometric shape in the form of a cit
No, I'm quite certain it was explicitly stated somewhere that Ravnica is a full-sized planet and has a population of hundreds of billions. The entirety of the planet is covered by city, but Ravnica is also the name of the original largest city, which is now essentially a high-end district of the global megalopolis. The only part of the rest of the plane we've seen is the Utvara district, where the Guildpact and parts of the Dissension novel take place. The number of these districts is not indicated, but clearly Ravnica and Utvara aren't the only ones.
"You didn't know everything; they were there ... shrug."
Which is exactly what I am proposing. I can think of no better way to give the setting the sense of scale that it richly deserves than to simply make it clear we haven't seen the whole thing.
This isn't intelligent story- and world-building. If Creative and R&D look two years ahead of the release, there are vast amounts of time they have to work at full world-building, concepts for planar design and scope, and catalogues of species that can set limits on the asspulls future writers can create, not this comic-style retcon garbage.
Two years is not very long when they're as busy as they are, and let's not forget that the amount of staff in Wotco is not large. They absolutely do not want to "set limits on future asspulls", as that would make their job difficult. Already they clearly are not able to keep track of the existing continuity (though they could make use of the community's willingness to do so, if not for legal issues). They do not want to close any doors for their future selves; otherwise they'll blurt out something like "there are no seven-headed okapi-men on Ravnica", and five years from now Brand will tell them "The new movie about seven-headed okapi-men is making a mint, so we need there to be seven-headed okapi-men on this fall's "Ravnica III: Planeswalk Hard With a Vengeance" set; make it happen." These are the people who tell the company how to make money, so they WILL get their way, no matter how stupid it is; avoiding doing extremely thorough, inflexible worldbuilding now is a form of damage control for the creative types, as it leaves them more flexibility to obey the orders of their corporate overlords later.
No, I'm quite certain it was explicitly stated somewhere that Ravnica is a full-sized planet and has a population of hundreds of billions. The entirety of the planet is covered by city, but Ravnica is also the name of the original largest city, whic
No, I'm quite certain it was explicitly stated somewhere that Ravnica is a full-sized planet and has a population of hundreds of billions. The entirety of the planet is covered by city, but Ravnica is also the name of the original largest city, which is now essentially a high-end district of the global megalopolis. The only part of the rest of the plane we've seen is the Utvara district, where the Guildpact and parts of the Dissension novel take place. The number of these districts is not indicated, but clearly Ravnica and Utvara aren't the only ones.
I've not seen a single Creative-fueld argument from the developers of the game that stated the plane was a planet. All we know is that it is a plane (of whatever sort that might be, spherical, oblate, discoid, an infinite or finite square, a plane on the inside of a sphere with the sun in the center, a smiley face, etc.) covered by a city of the same name. It is not many cities that conjoin: there is only one city. Recall, the Creative folks cannot even tell us precisely how Alara was organized, much less how it becomes split or conjoined, just that it was so. For the reasoning among us who have any familiarity with cosmology and astronomy, this is some ponderous, formative data that is being left out of the mix, and all for the sake of being able to backtrack and asspull themselves back into some idea. It's not "Cover your tracks, or they'll find what you've done," it's "Don't even leave tracks, so you can go back and make fake ones."
"You didn't know everything; they were there ... shrug."
Which is exactly what I am proposing. I can think of no better way to give the setting the sense of scale that it richly deserves than to simply make it clear we haven't seen the whole thing.
Right. And that's what's known as an asspull. It matters not why they do it, or the consequences of it, but that they do it, and pretend it is plot-relevant. The pretense, that we've not seen all of Ravnica, is irrelevant. My argument is that they want Merfolk on the plane, with the claim that Merfolk are resonant, and thus there will be Merfolk on the plane. And they are doing this on a world without oceans, or huge rivers (recall, the world's water supply is sustained magically and mechanically in floating vats and aquifers, managed by the Izzet -- and, I'm sure in part, by the Simic).
This isn't intelligent story- and world-building. If Creative and R&D look two years ahead of the release, there are vast amounts of time they have to work at full world-building, concepts for planar design and scope, and catalogues of species that can set limits on the asspulls future writers can create, not this comic-style retcon garbage.
Two years is not very long when they're as busy as they are, and let's not forget that the amount of staff in Wotco is not large. They absolutely do not want to "set limits on future asspulls", as that would make their job difficult. Already they clearly are not able to keep track of the existing continuity (though they could make use of the community's willingness to do so, if not for legal issues). They do not want to close any doors for their future selves; otherwise they'll blurt out something like "there are no seven-headed okapi-men on Ravnica", and five years from now Brand will tell them "The new movie about seven-headed okapi-men is making a mint, so we need there to be seven-headed okapi-men on this fall's "Ravnica III: Planeswalk Hard With a Vengeance" set; make it happen." These are the people who tell the company how to make money, so they WILL get their way, no matter how stupid it is; avoiding doing extremely thorough, inflexible worldbuilding now is a form of damage control for the creative types, as it leaves them more flexibility to obey the orders of their corporate overlords later.
I swear I can come up with a planar design which is wholly developed and ecologically sound. I can create realms where elemental products are innate and exclusive of the others (of metal, of water, of air, etc.) and it's not hard. I can also build a project map, with a scope of context for the current setting (a continent here, half the world there). The world-building of Ravniva actually appealed to me in such a way because it seemed they had covered their bases on it: they described how the entire plane had been urbanized and converted, losing them their natural ecologies and had to create new ones to compensate: a purely urbanized ecology. This actually fits the way urban ecologies NOW are known, such as pigeons, predators adapted specifically to them, etc.
During the second GDS, someone invented a setting that exists wholly underground, and conceived of how each of the colors might utilize this realm. R&D would call this a "plane," and then we'd have to figure out how that "plane" translates when they use the term for "world," "planet" or "realm of existence," but also "setting" or "subsetting" depending on convenience. One can do without such liquid "definitions."
Lorwyn, unlike Innistrad, is supposedly self-contained, a realm within a ring of mountains, and nothing much beyond, if at all. It is particularly nice because there needn't ever be a way to explain what is beyond Lorwyn's mountains: simply say, there is nothing beyond Lorwyn's mountains. Restrictions Breed Creativity. The plane and the land, like Innistrad, is self-contained. Rather, Innistrad is meant to be a portion of the world, like how Otaria is a portion of what appears to be a spherical world, and maybe Dominaria is a portion of a plane. One should not name the plane for a region therein, but Creative has been getting less and less insightful in this because, sadly, the push is to further and further things: never stay long, and maybe never go back.
They don't expand on the world building, because to them they may never use that work; doing so becomes a waste of effort. Instead, you get them asspulling story elements on their return to what was always a popular setting; they could not -- or would not -- try to create a more plausible person to head up the Combine, even potentially resurrecting the long-lost race from which Momir derives (steampunk elves!) -- after all, they have his genetics or biomatter or goo.
No, I'm quite certain it was explicitly stated somewhere that Ravnica is a full-sized planet and has a population of hundreds of billions. The entirety of the planet is covered by city, but Ravnica is also the name of the original largest city, whic
Why so many cards from Scars block? These decks aren't going to be Standard legal for very long!
I may just quit ordering these for my shop for future releases.
Regarding the M13 Event Decks:Why so many cards from Scars block? These decks aren't going to be Standard legal for very long!I may just quit ordering these for my shop for future releases.
Why so many cards from Scars block? These decks aren't going to be Standard legal for very long!
I may just quit ordering these for my shop for future releases.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Why did they put the allied color Mirrodin lands into the decks, since we're about to see them leave Standard. Sure, they'd be great for Modern and casual, but that doesn't help those of us who just getting into Standard. I was ecstatic that they put Thragtusk into a deck and wish they would have put Thundermaw Hellkite into the other deck. Honestly, he would have been a very smart addition, letting both him and the Fettergiest attack in the same turn. It would have also helped bringed down the absurd value of it. A Bonfire of the Damned would have also been nice. I know these are mythics but who truly cares when it comes down to gameplay. Again though, the Mirrodin lands with the other Mirrodin cards seem overkill.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Why did they put the allied color Mirrodin lands into the decks, since we're about to see them leave Standard. Sure, they'd be great for Modern and casual, but that doesn't help those of us who just getting into S
I, for one, think it's hilarious that the Burning Vengeance deck has one card in it from M13. Evolving Wilds sort of counts, too, but that's a land and we also just saw it in Dark Ascension.
I, for one, think it's hilarious that the Burning Vengeance deck has one card in it from M13. Evolving Wilds sort of counts, too, but that's a land and we also just saw it in Dar
So what we have here is M12 event decks all over again. One that is kinda centered around the core set, and one that could have easily been an event deck for the previous block.
This really inst excusable a second time. The second deck isnt even a good Vengence deck. Also that sideboard is just horrible. Bloodcrazed neonate? Really?
The first one has enough cards i can use in it to be worth the 19.99 ill pay for it though so not a total loss. At msrp either is a rip off.
So what we have here is M12 event decks all over again. One that is kinda centered around the core set, and one that could have easily been an event deck for the previous block.This really inst excusable a second time. The second deck isnt even a g
The first deck seems pretty fun to play and has some money in it. A bit weird there are so much Scars cards in there but.. well sure. I guess adding a Restorationg Angel wouldnt be bad as well.. (just cut the zenith?)
The second deck just doesnt make sense. So much useless junk..
@ poster above: they are not printing mythic cards in these products so Thundermaw is not going to work.
Okey.. that was weird.The first deck seems pretty fun to play and has some money in it. A bit weird there are so much Scars cards in there but.. well sure. I guess adding a Restorationg Angel wouldnt be bad as well.. (just cut the zenith?)The second
M2013 second event deck is a joke.... 1 m2013 card in a M2013 event deck? (i dont cout evolvings because they were printed elsewhere too... Total FAIL :D
M2013 second event deck is a joke.... 1 m2013 card in a M2013 event deck? (i dont cout evolvings because they were printed elsewhere too... Total FAIL :D
Well, you see, that's how Core Set event decks are built. They put good cards, even in brink of rotation, in the deck. It's a 'one last hurrah' of the nearly-rotated-cards. Wizards uses intro packs to showcase a new set's themes and mechanics, not event decks.
Zac Hill wrote an article about this:
"That's also one of the reasons that the contents of a given set's Event Decks vary widely in terms of how many cards they actually use of that particular set. With Magic 2012, I knew I wanted to take advantage of a lot of cool Zendikar block Vampires before they rotated out of Standard, since Event Decks weren't around during Zendikar's release. That meant, though, that a lot of the deck wouldn't be legal after the release of Innistrad. To compensate for that, I knew I wanted for most of the blue deck to be legal after the rotation, and to take advantage of a lot of M12-specific cards. New Phyrexia's Event Decks, meanwhile, were much more evenly spaced when it comes to the frequency of Zendikar block versus Scars block cards.
As a general rule, then, we tend to prefer at least one linear, mostly aggressive strategy whose manabase can be made to work with minimal effort. The other strategy will likely be more set-specific and try to play up some interesting block themes. As formats get close to rotating, we're more likely to try and get one last hurrah out of the previous block's Constructed All-Star list, whereas earlier in a set's lifespan we're more likely to explore themes that have the opportunity to grow more robust with each release."
Well, you see, that's how Core Set event decks are built. They put good cards, even in brink of rotation, in the deck. It's a 'one last hurrah' of the nearly-rotated-cards. Wizards uses intro packs to showcase a new set's themes and mechanics, not ev
I was also really dissapointed with the Vengeance list. They could have at least made it into a decent deck. Aside from the ScoM Block cards(Hey, Y U no Sunpetal Grove?), the first deck looks like it'd be rather fun. Also, Thragtusk. My main question would be the power level of these decks. Obviously, the green deck is better. But how good is it, really? At the very least, one can build off it, right?
I was also really dissapointed with the Vengeance list. They could have at least made it into a decent deck. Aside from the ScoM Block cards(Hey, Y U no Sunpetal Grove?), the first deck looks like it'd be rather fun. Also, Thragtusk. My main question
I was also really dissapointed with the Vengeance list. They could have at least made it into a decent deck. Aside from the ScoM Block cards (Hey, Y U no Sunpetal Grove?), the first deck looks like it'd be rather fun. Also, Thragtusk. My main question would be the power level of these decks. Obviously, the green deck is better. But how good is it, really? At the very least, one can build off it, right?
I was also really dissapointed with the Vengeance list. They could have at least made it into a decent deck. Aside from the ScoM Block cards (Hey, Y U no Sunpetal Grove?), the first deck looks like it'd be rather fun. Also, Thragtusk. My main questio
I've ranted about it before, the event decks should absolutely not contain rotating cards. My reasoning is that Wizards pitches FNM as an entrance into Magic tournaments. Then, it says event decks are the perfect way to get started playing FNM. I have a friend who bought the 2012 Vampire deck a couple of months after it came out, and was disqualified from his first FNM. That was his first constructed tournament experience, and his last. No Magic product should have a shelf-life of two months.
I agree Sgtpepperjack, I'm dissappointed as well by Vengence. I have a similar deck that runs Arcane Melee. It pretty much builds itself around the R/U cards that have flashback, plus a ton of board sweep. It is also exceedingly boring, both for the opponent, and for the player, who ends up playing solitare. I doubt that this sub-optimized version is any more fun.
I've ranted about it before, the event decks should absolutely not contain rotating cards. My reasoning is that Wizards pitches FNM as an entrance into Magic tournaments. Then, it says event decks are the perfect way to get started playing FNM. I hav
Well, you see, that's how Core Set event decks are built. They put good cards, even in brink of rotation, in the deck. It's a 'one last hurrah' of the nearly-rotated-cards. Wizards uses intro packs to showcase a new set's themes and mechanics, not event decks.
Zac Hill wrote an article about this:
"That's also one of the reasons that the contents of a given set's Event Decks vary widely in terms of how many cards they actually use of that particular set. With Magic 2012, I knew I wanted to take advantage of a lot of cool Zendikar block Vampires before they rotated out of Standard, since Event Decks weren't around during Zendikar's release. That meant, though, that a lot of the deck wouldn't be legal after the release of Innistrad. To compensate for that, I knew I wanted for most of the blue deck to be legal after the rotation, and to take advantage of a lot of M12-specific cards. New Phyrexia's Event Decks, meanwhile, were much more evenly spaced when it comes to the frequency of Zendikar block versus Scars block cards.
As a general rule, then, we tend to prefer at least one linear, mostly aggressive strategy whose manabase can be made to work with minimal effort. The other strategy will likely be more set-specific and try to play up some interesting block themes. As formats get close to rotating, we're more likely to try and get one last hurrah out of the previous block's Constructed All-Star list, whereas earlier in a set's lifespan we're more likely to explore themes that have the opportunity to grow more robust with each release."
That logic was terrible then, and its still terrible now. Why even call them Core Set? Might as well make a "Last Hurrah" deck. Except that the last Hurrah in this case is for Innistrad, which wont be rotating any time soon.
That logic was terrible then, and its still terrible now. Why even call them Core Set? Might as well make a "Last Hurrah" deck. Except that the last Hurrah in this case is for Innistrad, which wont be rotating any time soon.
Ok guys, so don't buy them. These decks are made to be an opportunity for new players to have some chance of winning games at FNM. If you are an active member of the boards, odds are you don't need these decks because you already have enough interest/investment in Magic that you can build better decks out of singles from the internet. At least those decks are playable. Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
Concerning legality in Standard, though, I understand why it's bothersome. I personally don't play sanctioned formats, so I don't really mind, but I see why it's a bad thing. As I said above, those decks are geared towards players who intend to try FNM for the first time, and when said player purchases an Event deck, opens it and is told he can't use it because there are cards from a set no longer legal (in this case the scar duals) I can imagine his confusion and frustration.
Ok guys, so don't buy them. These decks are made to be an opportunity for new players to have some chance of winning games at FNM. If you are an active member of the boards, odds are you don't need these decks because you already have enough interest
I like Courtly Provocateur's art, but it doesn't match the card mechanics. Due to "keeping it bloodless" as artist was requested, it seems like she just poisoned them all, instead of making everyone kill each other in a fight. Attack? Block? There was no combat in this ballroom, people just randomly fell dead.
I like Courtly Provocateur's art, but it doesn't match the card mechanics. Due to "keeping it bloodless" as artist was requested, it seems like she just poisoned them all, instead of making everyone kill each other in a fight. Attack? Block? There wa
Ok guys, so don't buy them. These decks are made to be an opportunity for new players to have some chance of winning games at FNM. If you are an active member of the boards, odds are you don't need these decks because you already have enough interest/investment in Magic that you can build better decks out of singles from the internet. At least those decks are playable. Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
Concerning legality in Standard, though, I understand why it's bothersome. I personally don't play sanctioned formats, so I don't really mind, but I see why it's a bad thing. As I said above, those decks are geared towards players who intend to try FNM for the first time, and when said player purchases an Event deck, opens it and is told he can't use it because there are cards from a set no longer legal (in this case the scar duals) I can imagine his confusion and frustration.
No disrespect, but you have a lot to say for someone who doesn't have any kind of investment in the format these will be in, isn't the market for these things and probably wouldn't buy these anyway.
I am a new player, and I do want to get into the London FNM scene, and I won't be touching these with a barge pole. The green has 5 key rares that would get me booted from an event in two months time and the red has 4. Frustratingly for the red one(as I'm interested in that deck as a concept) is that the land rare has a direct analogue that's legal right now, and at least one of the sorcery rares could have been magamaquake...
And that's the one that's alright. That green deck has 16 cards that will be going out. If after October that deck loses a quarter of it's price to match the fact that people will be losing a quarter of the deck, then fine, but I don't see that happening.
The only hope here is that Thragtusk stops being a £10 rare now...
No disrespect, but you have a lot to say for someone who doesn't have any kind of investment in the format these will be in, isn't the market for these things and probably wouldn't buy these anyway.I am a new player, and I do want to get into the Lon
Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
I totally disagree. Intro packs are far from pointless or garbage, they just aren't aimed at you, clearly. They are an excellent introductory product for new players and when properly constructed they can be a lot of fun to evolve and build on.
Case in point, I've been playing magic since fallen empires and precon/theme/intro decks are one of the main ways I've stuck with the game. I buy them and evolve them. I only ever play casual and some of my favourite decks were, once upon a time, intro products.
My only criticisms of intro packs would be that sometimes they are not well crafted and really don't work having a much lower power level than other intro packs, or just not really doing anything they propose to do, and that they no longer come with a 60 card box, which is a pretty big mistake by WOTC in my estimation. If they came with boxes I'd buy more of them.
I totally disagree. Intro packs are far from pointless or garbage, they just aren't aimed at you, clearly. They are an excellent introductory product for new players and when properly constructed they can be a lot of fun to evolve and build on.Case i
Ok guys, so don't buy them. These decks are made to be an opportunity for new players to have some chance of winning games at FNM. If you are an active member of the boards, odds are you don't need these decks because you already have enough interest/investment in Magic that you can build better decks out of singles from the internet. At least those decks are playable. Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
Concerning legality in Standard, though, I understand why it's bothersome. I personally don't play sanctioned formats, so I don't really mind, but I see why it's a bad thing. As I said above, those decks are geared towards players who intend to try FNM for the first time, and when said player purchases an Event deck, opens it and is told he can't use it because there are cards from a set no longer legal (in this case the scar duals) I can imagine his confusion and frustration.
No disrespect, but you have a lot to say for someone who doesn't have any kind of investment in the format these will be in, isn't the market for these things and probably wouldn't buy these anyway.
I am a new player, and I do want to get into the London FNM scene, and I won't be touching these with a barge pole. The green has 5 key rares that would get me booted from an event in two months time and the red has 4. Frustratingly for the red one(as I'm interested in that deck as a concept) is that the land rare has a direct analogue that's legal right now, and at least one of the sorcery rares could have been magamaquake...
And that's the one that's alright. That green deck has 16 cards that will be going out. If after October that deck loses a quarter of it's price to match the fact that people will be losing a quarter of the deck, then fine, but I don't see that happening.
The only hope here is that Thragtusk stops being a £10 rare now...
Ok, I must ask if you read my whole post, or just the first sentence / paragraph and decided to reply. You are pretty much agreeing with me here.
Sure, I'm not the market for these in what concerns playing at FNM, but I have already purchased more than one Event Deck for acquiring new cards, starting a new deck or something of sorts. I'm interested in these products as well, since I see them as an easy way to get a rather solid deck (or at least that's what they should be). So while legality doesn't bother me, power level does. This is why I stated that if we are here discussing these things, odds are we see those decks as inferior then what they could be, because we have a bigger knowledge of the game. What this means is that those decks aren't as bad as they seem for the overall new player.
You say you want to get into the London FNM scene and are a new player, but you are here in the boards. This indicates you have been reading about Magic, checking out decklists and following the game much more closely than most players. This is wonderfull, since it means you are going to have a pretty good grasp over the game and will most likely be able to do well in your first FNMs. That also means that you know what is in the Top 8s of the world and so would think the Event Deck is really bad because of cards A and B, while in most FNMs it will do just fine. In short, as I said, you are in the position of buying singles online and building a very good deck. You are not the newbie FNMer that this product targets, even though you are just starting.
Now we come to your point against my previous post, and this is where I ask if you read my second paragraph. You basically prove your point of not liking these decks because many cards will rotate out soon. I pretty much said that I agree with that and consider this to be a negative action of Wizards. At least you are informed enough to know these cards will rotate out soon. What about the players who don't? That's terrible, people will buy the product and then be shocked to know that in a couple months they'll have to buy even more things. It feels like Wizards lied to them. That's what I said and I believe we are all on the same boat here.
Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
I totally disagree. Intro packs are far from pointless or garbage, they just aren't aimed at you, clearly. They are an excellent introductory product for new players and when properly constructed they can be a lot of fun to evolve and build on.
Case in point, I've been playing magic since fallen empires and precon/theme/intro decks are one of the main ways I've stuck with the game. I buy them and evolve them. I only ever play casual and some of my favourite decks were, once upon a time, intro products.
My only criticisms of intro packs would be that sometimes they are not well crafted and really don't work having a much lower power level than other intro packs, or just not really doing anything they propose to do, and that they no longer come with a 60 card box, which is a pretty big mistake by WOTC in my estimation. If they came with boxes I'd buy more of them.
They aren't excellent introductory products. If they were, I wouldn't be forced to explain how important synergy and running multiple copies of a card is important to every single person who bought one and wants to improve it in the Casual boards. If they were excellent products, they'd teach players to have a solid deck that works as they want, and not a random pack of cards that resemble a deck. Sure, I'm generalizing, there are some Intro Packs that aren't garbage, but those are the exceptions. The great majority of them is very, very bad, and they teach new players nothing but "hey, get a shiny rare and stick it in this deck, it will be awesome!".
Also, I'd like to reinforce that I'm talking about Intro Packs. I really liked purchasing Precons and Theme Decks, They seemed to be better built and work better. Nowadays we mostly get a random pile of cards that fit the chosen colors, and might have some strategy going on if you try to notice it. I still remember the Theme Decks from Fifth Dawn, Planar Chaos and Eventide as the best ones, the kind of deck you could open and play with. They were very good introductory products. They taught players how to make a good deck and how to improve them. But they don't anymore.
Using spoiler blocks to avoid huge quote mess.Spoiler:
Show
No disrespect, but you have a lot to say for someone who doesn't have any kind of investment in the format these will be in, isn't the market for these things and probably wouldn't bu
Also, I'd like to reinforce that I'm talking about Intro Packs. I really liked purchasing Precons and Theme Decks, They seemed to be better built and work better. Nowadays we mostly get a random pile of cards that fit the chosen colors, and might have some strategy going on if you try to notice it. I still remember the Theme Decks from Fifth Dawn, Planar Chaos and Eventide as the best ones, the kind of deck you could open and play with. They were very good introductory products. They taught players how to make a good deck and how to improve them. But they don't anymore.
Intro-Packs, though, tend to be pointless pieces of garbage, since they are mostly unplayable, even in casual groups. I don't hate the decklists from these 2 decks.
I totally disagree. Intro packs are far from pointless or garbage, they just aren't aimed at you, clearly. They are an excellent introductory product for new players and when properly constructed they can be a lot of fun to evolve and build on.
Case in point, I've been playing magic since fallen empires and precon/theme/intro decks are one of the main ways I've stuck with the game. I buy them and evolve them. I only ever play casual and some of my favourite decks were, once upon a time, intro products.
My only criticisms of intro packs would be that sometimes they are not well crafted and really don't work having a much lower power level than other intro packs, or just not really doing anything they propose to do, and that they no longer come with a 60 card box, which is a pretty big mistake by WOTC in my estimation. If they came with boxes I'd buy more of them.
It's weird that you support this product. You've found 4 things you don't like about them as your "only" criticism.
The reason you say they are far from pointless, is basically because you use them if I understand you correctly? It doesn't seem like you were able to give an actual reason why it's a good product, or preferable to event decks. The fact that you need to modify them is not a plus either, as new players will expect the deck to be playable as is, and also learn bad deckbuilding habits from them.
I mean, you said yourself that the decks often don't work. That's not a minor issue for a pre-constructed deck, that's what makes it worth buying ot not. Why would anyone want a product that doesn't work?
The only time I ever see precons or intro packs being decent, is when the theme they use has so much synergy that it works reguardless of the deck being badly built (ex: Affinity). And then it beats the hell out of any other pre constructed deck, which are no longer worth buying (or even less so).
I totally disagree. Intro packs are far from pointless or garbage, they just aren't aimed at you, clearly. They are an excellent introductory product for new players and when properly constructed they can be a lot of fun to evolve and build on.Case i
Then it went away (mutilate) for a long time, because it was very powerful.
Um.. WoG and day of Judgment were around like all the time. And they kill amost everything every time. That doesn't make much sense.
Mass removal that starts at -4/-4 is too powerful, but hitting everything for the same cost is ok?
Um.. WoG and day of Judgment were around like all the time. And they kill amost everything every time. That doesn't make much sense.Mass removal that starts at -4/-4 is too powerful, but hitting everything for the same cost is ok?
"That said, when Delver finally gets some new tricks, and develops a new identity, we once again get to root for the underdog, the rogue of the group." "I think we all turn our heads to the fact that Delver is involved when we seeTalrand, Sky Summoner and Augur of Bolas teaming up to form the Voltron of instants and sorceries that we all secretly enjoy"
I think Conley Woods is forgetting we all aren't spikes/play blue, and a lot of us hate delver of secrets/temporarily quit standard because of its douche powers.
Raven
"That said, when Delver finally gets some new tricks, and develops a new identity, we once again get to root for the underdog, the rogue of the group.""I think we all turn our heads to the fact that Delver is involved when we seeTalrand, Sky Summoner
It's weird that you support this product. You've found 4 things you don't like about them as your "only" criticism.
I said my only criticisms. Can you name 4+ things you don't like about magic? I bet you can. Do you only support ideas or products that have fewer than 4 criticisms you could possibly level against them?
The reason you say they are far from pointless, is basically because you use them if I understand you correctly? It doesn't seem like you were able to give an actual reason why it's a good product, or preferable to event decks. The fact that you need to modify them is not a plus either, as new players will expect the deck to be playable as is, and also learn bad deckbuilding habits from them.
No you don't seem to understand me correctly. If you want reasons they are a good product, sure, they:
sell well introduce complexity to a new player in about the right quantity actively encourage deckbuilding by going just far enough in any given direction come with a booster, introducing the randomised collecting/upgrading part of magic highlight the themes of the set/block
Anecdotally I know about 10 people who have started playing magic in the last 5 years. Every single one of them bought intro decks, most of them went on to buy duel decks also. All of them have decks which began life as intro decks (or precons or themes).
I could go on but there are plenty of good articles out there about this subject. One written by the ertai's lament blogger is linked a couple of posts up.
Why are they preferable to event decks? In what sense do you mean? There's room for both products because they are doing very different things. Intro decks are cheaper, have a different target audience and are designed to introduce deckbuilding. There is way, way less ncentive to deckbuild with an event deck and a lot of the work is done for you. You might as well ask how is an event deck preferable to buying singles and building a netdeck. Frankly I find the question weird.
I mean, you said yourself that the decks often don't work. That's not a minor issue for a pre-constructed deck, that's what makes it worth buying ot not. Why would anyone want a product that doesn't work?
No, I didn't. You need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said sometimes they don't work. Not all precons/themedecks/intro packs are created equal. For example Deadspread's synergies and themes simply didn't work in actual play, Izzet gizmometry's absolutely did, so did Eldritch Onslaught. This isn't something WOTC has improved at, unfortunately. Every fifth or so intro pack doesn't work well enough, some of these being worse than others of course. That doesn't make the product a failure, it just leaves room for improvement.
The only time I ever see precons or intro packs being decent, is when the theme they use has so much synergy that it works reguardless of the deck being badly built (ex: Affinity). And then it beats the hell out of any other pre constructed deck, which are no longer worth buying (or even less so).
They aren't badly built. They are built so they can be easily improved and usually in multiple directions. Frankly if an intro pack was so linear and synergistic that it could really only evolve in one direction, /that/ would be a real design failure. What you would consider a 'decent' constructed affinity deck would probably make a terrible intro pack.
I said my only criticisms. Can you name 4+ things you don't like about magic? I bet you can. Do you only support ideas or products that have fewer than 4 criticisms you could possibly level against them?No you don't seem to understand me correctly. I
They aren't excellent introductory products. If they were, I wouldn't be forced to explain how important synergy and running multiple copies of a card is important to every single person who bought one and wants to improve it in the Casual boards. If they were excellent products, they'd teach players to have a solid deck that works as they want, and not a random pack of cards that resemble a deck. Sure, I'm generalizing, there are some Intro Packs that aren't garbage, but those are the exceptions. The great majority of them is very, very bad, and they teach new players nothing but "hey, get a shiny rare and stick it in this deck, it will be awesome!".
Also, I'd like to reinforce that I'm talking about Intro Packs. I really liked purchasing Precons and Theme Decks, They seemed to be better built and work better. Nowadays we mostly get a random pile of cards that fit the chosen colors, and might have some strategy going on if you try to notice it. I still remember the Theme Decks from Fifth Dawn, Planar Chaos and Eventide as the best ones, the kind of deck you could open and play with. They were very good introductory products. They taught players how to make a good deck and how to improve them. But they don't anymore.
Thanks for elaborating.
I agree the mirrodin block precons were a high point in some respects. Special Forces, Sacrificial Bam and in particular Nuts and Bolts were all pick up and play decks with very specific synergies and goals. They were great fun. However I think they would have been a better introductory product if they had included a booster and been a little looser. By that I mean been pulling in a few more directions. Not by much, just a little. As it stands Nuts and Bolts only readily evolves in one direction, maybe two at a stretch. The kind of construction it pushes toward is just getting more of the better cards in that deck so you have four ofs. Now of course an experienced player could evolve it in a whole load of different ways. I turned mine into a combo mill deck, for instance. But to a new player I don't think it fires off the imagination so well as it might if it hadn't been so tight.
My experience of new players is that they very quickly understand the limitations of those intro decks and upgrade them multiple times moving closer to a deck that consistently does what they want (and what that thing is can very quite a lot, which I think is a strength of intro packs). It's an important learning process. Simply being told 'have 4 of each card' isn't the same thing as realising from yourself how important consistency is and implementing that in the deck.
If they are taking an intro deck and getting smashed by someone with a constructed casual deck which is clearly way better that's not really an issue with the intro product. It's counterproductive to go crushing noobs that way. Magic should be played with decks of roughly equivalent power, for obvious reasons.
Thanks for elaborating.I agree the mirrodin block precons were a high point in some respects. Special Forces, Sacrificial Bam and in particular Nuts and Bolts were all pick up and play decks with very specific synergies and goals. They were great fun
From The Vaults is the worst Magic product ever: overcosted, ultra limited. I'll gladly pass (not that I'd have been able to get one under 50€ ormore...).
From The Vaults is the worst Magic product ever: overcosted, ultra limited. I'll gladly pass (not that I'd have been able to get one under 50€ ormore...).
From The Vaults is the worst Magic product ever: overcosted, ultra limited. I'll gladly pass (not that I'd have been able to get one under 50€ ormore...).
I can't say I'd ever buy a FtV either. Too expensive and I don't actually like the new art in most cases. But I'm not really a collector. For some people it's probably really tempting.
I can't say I'd ever buy a FtV either. Too expensive and I don't actually like the new art in most cases. But I'm not really a collector. For some people it's probably really tempting.
Yes, FTV tends to be too rich for my blood, too. Yes, most of the alternate art they showed looks worse to me too (Grove of the Burnwillows especially; they old one looks like it belongs next to Starry Night in a museum, this one looks like...I am not honestly sure, really, but it surely lacks the quiet beauty of the original). Yes it will be really hard to find. But sweet diety of your choice I love that new look for Dryad Arbor's frame. A Forest... with P/T. I need it in my deck RIGHT NOW.
Yes, FTV tends to be too rich for my blood, too. Yes, most of the alternate art they showed looks worse to me too (Grove of the Burnwillows especially; they old one looks like it belongs next to Starry Night in a museum, this one looks like...I am no
Oh like those lands were hard to get anyway and not worth a reprint and rarity change.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.
Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the game are on the Reserved list.
Third, they are only showing 6 of the 15 lands. They could have lands that are more powerful than the ones they are showing.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the g
What the heck happened to the Wallpaper of the Week on Fridays?? It's the only thing I check this site for anymore. They're taking everything away from this site that showcases the artwork and flavor of Magic: the Gathering.
What the heck happened to the Wallpaper of the Week on Fridays?? It's the only thing I check this site for anymore. They're taking everything away from this site that showcases the artwork and flavor of Magic: the Gathering.
Sure, FtV tends to be overcosted, but its almost always a good investment. Buy a few, wait a while, and you're almost guranteed to have the price go up substantially for re-sale/trade. Whether or not that will happen with Realms depends on how good the cards are, so we'll see...
Sure, FtV tends to be overcosted, but its almost always a good investment. Buy a few, wait a while, and you're almost guranteed to have the price go up substantially for re-sale/trade. Whether or not that will happen with Realms depends on how good t
What the heck happened to the Wallpaper of the Week on Fridays?? It's the only thing I check this site for anymore. They're taking everything away from this site that showcases the artwork and flavor of Magic: the Gathering.
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.
What the heck happened to the Wallpaper of the Week on Fridays?? It's the only thing I check this site for anymore. They're taking everything away from this site that showcases the artwork and flavor of Magic: the Gathering.
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.
Thank you adeyke! I usually check the site on Fridays for the wallpaper so I didn't catch the move and never thought to look under Daily Activity. Much appreciated!
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.[/quote]Thank you adeyke! I usually check the site on Fridays for the wallpaper so I didn't catch the move and never thought to look under Daily Activity. Much appreciated!
What the heck happened to the Wallpaper of the Week on Fridays?? It's the only thing I check this site for anymore. They're taking everything away from this site that showcases the artwork and flavor of Magic: the Gathering.
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.
Thank you adeyke! I usually check the site on Fridays for the wallpaper so I didn't catch the move and never thought to look under Daily Activity. Much appreciated!
If you're looking for artwork and flavor, I also recommend Jenna Helland's new column "Uncharted Realms," which delves into the flavor of a different card every week.
That's now part of the daily activity. The wallpaper appears every Wednesday.[/quote]Thank you adeyke! I usually check the site on Fridays for the wallpaper so I didn't catch the move and never thought to look under Daily Activity. Much appreciated!
"It will contain fifteen powerful lands from the history of Magic."
powerful...really????
I would say so. Grove of the Burnwillows was half of a combo that got a card banned in Modern, and the same goes for Dryad Arbor. Glacial Chasm is part of a brutal Legacy control deck, Forbidden Orchard is part of a vintage combo deck. Urborg and Murmuring Bosk are both powerful EDH cards. I have no idea how these lands could be seen as anything -but- powerful.
I would say so. Grove of the Burnwillows was half of a combo that got a card banned in Modern, and the same goes for Dryad Arbor. Glacial Chasm is part of a brutal Legacy control deck, Forbidden Orchard is part of a vintage combo deck. Urborg and
Oh like those lands were hard to get anyway and not worth a reprint and rarity change.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.
Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the game are on the Reserved list.
Third, they are only showing 6 of the 15 lands. They could have lands that are more powerful than the ones they are showing.
No I was expecting lands that live up to what they said as the most powerfull lands in magic.
Yes I was hoping they they would atleast reprint something worth a hoot, but hey its wotc they never reprint anything worth a hoot.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the g
Oh like those lands were hard to get anyway and not worth a reprint and rarity change.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.
Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the game are on the Reserved list.
Third, they are only showing 6 of the 15 lands. They could have lands that are more powerful than the ones they are showing.
No I was expecting lands that live up to what they said as the most powerfull lands in magic.
Yes I was hoping they they would atleast reprint something worth a hoot, but hey its wotc they never reprint anything worth a hoot.
They can no longer reprint the "most powerful lands" in all of Magic [of which there are about 15 - Duals, Library, Bazaar, Academy, Cradle, City] not in any effectively identical way. Reserved List and all that.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the g
Oh like those lands were hard to get anyway and not worth a reprint and rarity change.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.
Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the game are on the Reserved list.
Third, they are only showing 6 of the 15 lands. They could have lands that are more powerful than the ones they are showing.
No I was expecting lands that live up to what they said as the most powerfull lands in magic.
Yes I was hoping they they would atleast reprint something worth a hoot, but hey its wotc they never reprint anything worth a hoot.
And what lands do you think they should be, prey tell?
The land choices that I saw were reasonable given the reserve list constraints. Also, they still haven't shown the other 9 lands of the pack so any land you mention could be one of the 9.
First off, the FtV series defaults to Mythic, that doesn't change the actual rarity of the lands.Second, was everyone expecting lands such as Bazaar of Baghdad, the original duels, Tolarian Academy, or Gaea's Gradle? The most powerful lands in the g
Frankly, the list was kind of meh for me until I saw Urborg on there. That alone tends to fetch a pretty penny. I'd say I don't see the appeal of some of the lands here, but I'm sure there are plenty of obscure combos in Legacy that can make use of them.
I'm not impressed so far, but I guess I should reserve judgment till I see the rest.
Frankly, the list was kind of meh for me until I saw Urborg on there. That alone tends to fetch a pretty penny. I'd say I don't see the appeal of some of the lands here, but I'm sure there are plenty of obscure combos in Legacy that can make use of t
(i dont cout evolvings because they were printed elsewhere too... Total FAIL :D
