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Switch to Forum Live View 6/25/2012 MM: "Core, the Merrier"
12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 12:23AM #21
Flopfoot
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 7,720

Jun 24, 2012 -- 11:25PM, Incoming_Wormhole wrote:

Yawn. Another set, another mythic rare that's just an uncommon with part of its mana cost missing.

It's ability isn't even interesting.

Boy do I feel like a chump for picking up some Volcanic Dragons last year though. Here I was thinking that a 4/4 hasty flier for six mana was weak, but usable. Nope. I can either shell out $6 apiece (or however much this piece of garbage is going to cost) to play a fair game or just accept that if my opponent spends more money than me, they're going to win more often than not.

I was thinking of buying some cards from magic 2013, but I really don't want to encourge this kind of behavior.

Gosh, I can't wait to see what cool stuff they'll come up with in Return to Ravnica. A Watchwolf that costs 1 mana? Ghost Counsil with Lifelink for 3?

Meet the new titans, same as the old titans.


That's your problem for thinking that Volcanic Dragon is a Constructed playable card. I am guessing you haven't been playing Magic (competitively) for very long. We all go through that stage.

Large creatures are naturally more powerful in Limited than in Constructed, so we need to design some for each format. If all large creatures were designed to be playable in Constructed then they'd all have to be rare and mythic to stop them from ruining Limited games. If all large creatures were designed to be balanced in Limited, then none of them would be good enough for Constructed and you'd have to either play weenie aggro or control all the time.

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 12:25AM #22
Fireballmage
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2012
Posts: 243
I'm surprised that so many people are bemoaning Thundermaw Hellkite. After years of whining that most (mono-red) dragons were jank, it's nice to get a good mono-red dragon.

It's even nicer when it has such good flavor, especially compared to Thundermare , its obvious inspiration (which was just kinda nonsensical); when it appears, it makes a storm that kills little creatures with lightning and buffets bigger ones with wind (tapping them down).  
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 1:11AM #23
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,833

The legendary creatures each hail from a different plane.




Apparently Ravnica and Ravnica are different planes.  Krenko and Yeva say Hi.

The rings are each from a different location on the plane of Shadalar.




Wait, what?  None of these names appears in the Microprose game which is the original source of Shandalar.  The names Thune and Xathrid and Kalonia are all from M10, and the other two we've never heard before.  Then there's Talrand and the two Planechase planes that say Shandalar on them, none of which have anything to do with Azaar the lichlord or Arzakon the planeswalker or Whim the blue dragon or any of the other things you saw in the Shandalar game.  Where exactly are you getting this information, Maro?  Whoever told you these names are Shandalar didn't do the research.  But then, that's pretty standard by now; you've got a pretty well-proven track record of refusing to pay attention to your own history.

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 1:14AM #24
Senyuno
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 425
Yes, this is definitely no BSAngel, and thank god. We don't need another one of those. You have to understand, BSAngel is a card that represents an angel that severely pushes the curve of angel into an unobtainabley zone of "so good if you're running this color it should be considered." And it was true, it was an option for any white deck that got to five mana on a regular basis. Most relevant is the fact that it was almost everything a generic one could be, all at once. It's exactly what we don't need, creatures that are everything they could be at once.


Also, I'm glad titans are finally on their way out, they represent the same problem. They've warped the format for long enough, it's time to stop competing with them and trying to out-do them. You know those $0.50 Soul of the Harvest and Harvester of Souls ? Those are examples of titans done right, and those are made irrelevant by the titans' existence, but one day soon will see top tables, possibly often if they have no challengers at the 6 drop slot.
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 1:53AM #25
Zindaras
  • Paranoia Paradise
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2003
Posts: 2,227

Jun 24, 2012 -- 9:15PM, Drab_Emordnilap wrote:

One great way to do this was to choose an old mechanic each year to bring back for a one-year stint. Magic 2011 brought back scry from Future Sight in the Time Spiral block. Magic 2012 brought back bloodthirst from Guildpact in the Ravnica block. Magic 2013 brings back exalted from Shards of Alara block.




Poor Fifth Dawn; everyone tried to forget you ever existed. 




I'd like to take a moment here and pay my Internet respects to Fifth Dawn, that sad sad little collection of cardboard, whose greatest achievement has been hijacked by Future Sight.

Jun 24, 2012 -- 9:39PM, Kennon1st wrote:

This is to Dragons as Baneslayer is to Angels? Somehow I'm disappointed.




Jun 24, 2012 -- 10:01PM, The_Great_Galendo wrote:

I'm not that impressed by the red dragon.  Is it a good card?  Yeah.  Is it "a Dragon that was to Dragons what Baneslayer Angel was to Angels"?  Not really.  If they couldn't answer it, Baneslayer usually just straight up won you the game.  Some decks just rolled over and died to a resolved Baneslayer.  If they can't answer this, it...deals them five damage?  And kills their flying 1/1 tokens?  That's cool, I guess.

Honestly though, I see this dragon more as a "Oh no!  Lingering Souls is way too powerful!  Quick, let's make a hoser and put it in the next core set!"  Color me unimpressed by R&D/Development's attempt to correct their mistake.




I'd say you should be happy this is not the Dragon equivalent of Baneslayer Angel. Baneslayer Angel, if anything, made me hate angels. This card is actually okay.

Jun 24, 2012 -- 11:43PM, Senyuno wrote:

Why exalted? The mechanic was created by Brian Tinsman for the Bant sub-design team. (Brian,Ken Nagle, and myself). Doug and his team felt like exalted did exactly what you wanted for a core returning mechanic: it dripped flavor, was easy to grasp mechanically, and played well.



I had to pause there, as others have, because I honestly don't quite understand the flavor of exalted... and that's never a good sign. I guess, an exalted creature is one that exalts another (or itself)? So it strongly believes in an individual, truly raises it up to a grand level with its inspiration or devotion. And for some reason in MtG the indivdual that deserves this adjective is one who has the courage to attack alone, knowing it's supporters have his back. Is that it?




The problem I have with Exalted is that the term is just not really correct. An exalted person is a person who is exalted by others. In general, creatures with exalted exalt other creatures as well as being exalted by themselves. That just doesn't make sense.

Jun 25, 2012 -- 12:25AM, Fireballmage wrote:

I'm surprised that so many people are bemoaning Thundermaw Hellkite. After years of whining that most (mono-red) dragons were jank, it's nice to get a good mono-red dragon.

It's even nicer when it has such good flavor, especially compared to Thundermare , its obvious inspiration (which was just kinda nonsensical); when it appears, it makes a storm that kills little creatures with lightning and buffets bigger ones with wind (tapping them down).  




Yeah, I mainly like this card because of the Thundermare reference as well.



Dec 1, 2010 -- 10:06AM, ProphetKing wrote:

Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 2:04AM #26
Scurra
Date Joined: Mar 4, 2005
Posts: 46

Jun 25, 2012 -- 12:01AM, Senyuno wrote:

One great way to do this was to choose an old mechanic each year to bring back for a one-year stint. Magic 2011 brought back scry from Future Sight in the Time Spiral block. Magic 2012 brought back bloodthirst from Guildpact in the Ravnica block. Magic 2013 brings back exalted from Shards of Alara block.



It's a great idea that is not executed to its full extent, and this is a problem with all sets. That, the mechanic's support vanishes once the block is over. 


This.  And, as you say, it's not especially hard to solve just by making the "new" core set mechanic a tertiary effect in the next set.  I was very surprised this didn't happen with Bloodthirst, especially when we already knew Innistrad was going to be about creatures that would seem to have an automatic thematic fit with the mechanic.  It might even provide the chance for a cheeky preview!  
I can only presume that it has something to do with design/development cycles and timing, but it strikes me that this is exactly what the whole NWO is all about, and it still doesn't seem to have happened.  If they want Magic to feel like a cohesive whole, then looking forwards (by looking backward!) is surely a part of that.

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 2:09AM #27
Mazca
Date Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Posts: 93

Jun 25, 2012 -- 1:53AM, Zindaras wrote:

Jun 24, 2012 -- 9:15PM, Drab_Emordnilap wrote:

One great way to do this was to choose an old mechanic each year to bring back for a one-year stint. Magic 2011 brought back scry from Future Sight in the Time Spiral block. Magic 2012 brought back bloodthirst from Guildpact in the Ravnica block. Magic 2013 brings back exalted from Shards of Alara block.




Poor Fifth Dawn; everyone tried to forget you ever existed. 




I'd like to take a moment here and pay my Internet respects to Fifth Dawn, that sad sad little collection of cardboard, whose greatest achievement has been hijacked by Future Sight.




I'll never forget Fifth Dawn. While I'd been playing for a while before it, the Fifth Dawn prerelease was the first actual tournament I went to.

I went 0-7, including losing to a Door to Nothingness . You don't forget that kind of pain!

Rules Advisor. Used to play a lot of old Extended tournaments, now I just play prereleases and casual kitchen-table games with friends.

My regular decks, many of which have been evolving for years:
Contested Cliffs Beasts
Coastal Piracy
Hana Kami Spirit recycling
Rout Multiplayer control
Seizan, Perverter of Truth Commander
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 2:13AM #28
metroidcomposite
Date Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 1,609
Wait, Elderscale Wurm is part of the cycle?  Really?

Wasn't green supposed to have the best creatures, not the worst? 
Cats land on their feet.  Toast lands peanut butter side down.  A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision.
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 6:25AM #29
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,833

Jun 25, 2012 -- 1:53AM, Zindaras wrote:

I'd like to take a moment here and pay my Internet respects to Fifth Dawn, that sad sad little collection of cardboard, whose greatest achievement has been hijacked by Future Sight.




Not me, I loved fifth dawn - Darksteel was the set in that block which I thought was lacking.  5D was where we finally got to see the Sylvok, I loved it for that as well as for the color-based equipment cycle (aside from Cranial Plating being absurdly overpowered, the concept at least was neat and I play Horned Helm and Neurok Stealthsuit whenever I can).

Jun 24, 2012 -- 9:39PM, Kennon1st wrote:

This is to Dragons as Baneslayer is to Angels? Somehow I'm disappointed.




Jun 24, 2012 -- 10:01PM, The_Great_Galendo wrote:

The problem I have with Exalted is that the term is just not really correct. An exalted person is a person who is exalted by others. In general, creatures with exalted exalt other creatures as well as being exalted by themselves. That just doesn't make sense.




This.  The mechanic should have been called "honor" or "faithfulness" or something, representing the idea that your champion is stronger because his people believe in him and have pure souls.

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 6:50AM #30
Twanbon
Date Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 59
I find the whole "Goal 8: Add a cycle of Mythic Rare Iconics" to be entirely laughable.
MaRo calls them a cycle "a little looser than the Titans"... A LITTLE looser? Those 5 mythics have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I actually can't find one common thread in the lot, one of them is even a reprint! If the cycle is just "a collection of in-your-face Mythics", you could just as easily call Serra Avatar part of the cycle, or Worldfire, or MOST MYTHICS EVER PRINTED could be considered part of this cycle.
Sometimes MaRo thinks we'll take his word for literally anything even if it's not true. You didn't REPLACE the titans with this new "cycle". You just cut the titans and designed 5 unrelated mythics. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to act like they're part of some awesome cycle that litarally no one could identify.
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