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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 1:22AM
#151
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2011
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Can you use the sacrifice ability of Lyzolda before the sacrifice clauses of Vexing Devil  and Avatar of Discord  kick in?
That's a good question. f I were to guess, I'd say you probably can't, as I think the saccing effect is state based (is that the right terminology); basically, I don't think it goes on the stack, so there'd be no time to play an instant ability before it "resolves".
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 2:05AM
#152
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2010
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I think you can use them with Lyzolda. Vexing Devil's ability goes on the stack, as does Avatar of Discard's. Before the drawback resolves, they remain in play and you are free to sacrifice them to anything.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 2:57AM
#153
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2011
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I think you can use them with Lyzolda. Vexing Devil's ability goes on the stack, as does Avatar of Discard's. Before the drawback resolves, they remain in play and you are free to sacrifice them to anything.
okay, guess I was wrong. I really don't think it would make the avatar worth running though (5 mana for a shock with card draw), and it's not so effective with the devil either, as it's only mono red -- you'd probably want the devil on the field in most cases (or the opponent taking 4 dmg).
I see lyzolda's ability most useful with the goblins after the opponent has some defence established that will render them obsolete, and also possibly with the ashhenmoor gouger  s, and of course the grave titan  , if it comes to that.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 6:37AM
#154
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2010
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I think you can use them with Lyzolda. Vexing Devil's ability goes on the stack, as does Avatar of Discard's. Before the drawback resolves, they remain in play and you are free to sacrifice them to anything.
I disagree. I think the answer is "No, they can't" - here's why:
1) As soon as Vexing Devil hits the field the game will pause and the opponent will be given the option. If they choose damage your devil will sacrifice instantly. There will not be an opportunity to add anything to the stack. It's like how if you hit your opponent with Mire's Toll  you can't then play Murder  while they're selecting cards for you to look at. That's how I see this playing out, and as soon as a creature is sacrificed it goes directly to graveyard with no chance to play something on the stack before it goes.
2) Avatar of Discord will have a similar effect as Devil. It will hit battlefield and as soon as it does your hand will pop up and ask you to discard 2 cards. If you choose not to discard your Avatar will be sacced befoer you ever get the opportunity to use Lyzolda's activated effect.
I don't know if this is how the cards should play out in paper, but I would bet that this is how the mechanic works in DotP. I think it would actually work the same way in paper though as I don't think you can put sacrifice onto the stack ahead of another sacrifice mechanic. I.E. if you have cast Innocent Blood  and I have only Fume Spitter  on the field I can respond to your IB while it's on the stack by sacrificing it, but once it resolves I cannot then respond to the sac effect with my own sac effect.
As Niv_MIzzet points out, I don't think these are any great loss though as you'd be kinda silly to spend (B/R)(B/R)(B/R)(3) and lose a 5/3 flying creature, to cast Shock  and Ravenous Rats  ' effect. I suppose it'd make more sense with the devil if they've chosen to sac it, surprise 6 damage for (R)(2) is pretty sweet, but yea, I don't think that'll happen.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 01, 2012 - 4:48PM
#155
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2010
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whatever made you think it worksanydifferently from other enterthe battlefield effects such as wood elves or nekrataal
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9 months ago ::
Sep 11, 2012 - 2:03PM
#156
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2012
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9 months ago ::
Sep 12, 2012 - 1:07AM
#157
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2008
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my build on rakdos tell me what you think
I don't see Rakdos himself being all that great in your build. You only have 1 other demon besides him. You're going to be in just as much pain from using him as your opponent. I believe there are more demons you could put in this deck, if a demon build is what you're going for, but the list you put up isn't the right deck for Rakdos.
edit: actually I went back and looked at the cards in this deck, and there are only 3 demons total. I'm not sure this is really a good deck for Rakdos. I understand why they put him in here, it's a Rakdos Guild deck, but they should have given us more demon options. Maybe 6-8 would have been better.
Chancellor of the Spires  is one of the worst cards in the deck. With only two of them, you are almost never going to get one in your starting hand. If you do get it in your starting hand, it will just sit there. If you get to cast it, it will get burned immediately. - gombl3r CW is NOT how a mono blue deck should work. -Khronikos If anyone in our little group believes in prayer ... we could use all you can give us. Edit: My name is Mark. It wouldn't be right to pray for the devil. -thedevilwuster
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9 months ago ::
Sep 12, 2012 - 7:03AM
#158
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2010
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whatever made you think it worksanydifferently from other enterthe battlefield effects such as wood elves or nekrataal
I guess you have a point. They aren't essentially additional casting costs like I thought (or at least as I'd thought with Avatar of Discord ).
I still don't really understand why you would use either of these cards that way though. You drop Vexing Devil and then immediately sacrifice it to Lyzolda before his ETB effect resolves- you do 2 dmg to opponent for (2)(R) and your opponent choose "Keep Devil" as it's already dead and they don't take the 4 damage (I assume they still get the choice to keep devil?), alternatively you pay (2)(B/R)(B/R)(B/R) to do 2 damage and make opponent discard a card then you choose Discord's ability to sac discord and keep your hand.
You're also now out a potential 4 damage/4/3 creature, and a 5/3 flying creature and excessive amounts of mana for the end result of either doing 2 to the face or 2 and discard.
Nevertheless I think you're right about actually being able to do it as they're both ETB effects.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 12, 2012 - 8:02AM
#159
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2012
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my build on rakdos tell me what you think
I don't see Rakdos himself being all that great in your build. You only have 1 other demon besides him. You're going to be in just as much pain from using him as your opponent. I believe there are more demons you could put in this deck, if a demon build is what you're going for, but the list you put up isn't the right deck for Rakdos.
edit: actually I went back and looked at the cards in this deck, and there are only 3 demons total. I'm not sure this is really a good deck for Rakdos. I understand why they put him in here, it's a Rakdos Guild deck, but they should have given us more demon options. Maybe 6-8 would have been better.
True i´ll take him out
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9 months ago ::
Sep 12, 2012 - 9:22AM
#160
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2012
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What do you guys think of this build:
| "Discard Rakdos" library |
| for Grinning Malice (Rakdos): 41 picks, 61 cards |
| Library code: ((((((((~~BHOQ3M~~Discard Rakdos~~2AyARws~~2?ihRFq~~2A=n3Lr~~1=vQRfi~~2BlEqq9~~1?eLMbr~~1A3PIzm~~3?uRgDO~~1?UgyrF~~2BlInlZ~~3Ao3QIa~~2BOCoxQ~~4AR1MGf~~2=gmu2K~~1?5rWVS~~2?rA7I7~~3?3aFm3~~2=bsgK2~~2=LRljX~~2=FVFHB~~1BlYW0C~~)))))))) |
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