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Nov 27, 2012 -- 5:16AM, iHARBiNG3R wrote:

Nov 26, 2012 -- 7:06PM, PleniluneKnight wrote:

Oh I got that much, but when people start talking about certain creatures, like ones with evasion, equating to more card advantage it takes a little more thinking to understand that thought process.

You mean cards like Shadowmage Infiltrator , it has evasion and creates card advantage.

While I can't think of any exact quotes I'm pretty sure I've seen card adantage used in reference to creatures that didn't even draw you card at all. Like going into it assuming the card will get removed and thus giving you more card advantage because of that, but still calling the creature itself a source for card advantage. It's things like that which people say that takes a moment to wrap my mind around.

@ PleniluneKnight

Pelakka Wurm is another straightforward example. Assuming that the opponent spends one card to kill it; it lets you draw another card, you are then 1 card ahead in the 'trade'.

mitotic slime doesn't directly draw you a card, but supposing it doesn't get exiled/pacified etc, for your opponent to get ridd off it, they very likely will have to spend more than one card.

inferno titan will often generate card advantage when it comes into play as well; by killing a 3 toughness or less creature. You are then ahead one card. Even if your titan gets removed (by one card spent by your opponent) you retain the 'card advantage'

It would help if I could remember an exact line that left me baffled, but Mitonic Slime seems to be the one that makes the most sense to say it generates card advantage (or at least could) without actually having you draw cards. And yeah even removal bait has you cast that spell yourself so in the end you're still faced with the same card ratio unless there's some other factor.

Nov 26, 2012 -- 11:26AM, Hakeem928 wrote:

Yeah, I'm gonna revamp my build tonight. I'm thinking about running the Zombies as a 2-of, and perhaps trimming the Diabolic Edict s. I think I'll run the Grave Pact and Asceticism as well. The problem with building this deck is that there are too many good cards! I also don't know if Viridian Emissary has a place in my new build, but with the cost on a lot of the 3-drops, I'm not sure how it would run without them. Time to test!

Ok, so I've done this and played probably 75-100 games with the deck and I've lost probably 1 out of 10 or less. Here's the build I'm currently using:

"Starter" library

for Sepulchral Strength (Golgari): 40 picks, 60 cards

Library code: ((((((((~~B72yFn~~Starter~~2=IS40U~~2AYbc44~~2?DouB4~~1AiWbvi~~2BEoJ0C~~2=mlgno~~2=efQW=~~4=9R92S~~2AF9Z=s~~2AsJCuI~~4?JDdWS~~2?LeSi2~~2=OP1bK~~4AriHbV~~2BT4pvY~~2?qwIl9~~1BirVSK~~1=NNVWi~~1A2XD3A~~))))))))

cost
Spell	■■■■	Evolving Wilds
cost
Spell	■■	Rancor
cost
Creature	■■	Blood Artist	0/1
	■■	Viridian Emissary	2/1
Spell	■■■■	Go for the Throat
cost
Creature	■■■■	Yavimaya Elder	2/1
Spell	■■	Maelstrom Pulse
	■■	Pernicious Deed
cost
Creature	■■	Master of the Wild Hunt	3/3
	■■	Oracle of Mul Daya	2/2
	■■	Sewer Nemesis	*/*
Spell	■	Damnation
	■	Grave Pact
	■■	Greater Good
cost
Creature	■	Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief	4/4
	■■	Mitotic Slime	4/4
	■■	Spiritmonger	6/6
	■■	Vulturous Zombie	3/3
Spell	■	Asceticism

Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>

Here's the written assessment of my choices:

4x Evolving Wilds : My mana base is an even 10/10 split between forests and swamps, so this brings me to 24 lands. They're a must because of all the spells.

2x Rancor : If your deck has forests, you run this card. Combos with creatures.

2x Blood Artist : If your deck has swamps, you run this card. Combos with creature death.

4x Go for the Throat : I can only think of two artifact creatures in this game ( Silent Arbiter and Peace Strider ), though there may be more. Fantastic card.

2x Viridian Emissary : I tried to run without it, but the deck didn't have a single creature before turn 3 ( Blood Artist notwithstanding), and those creatures have in the casting cost. It's a must in this build.

2x Maelstrom Pulse : A good answer to pesky artifacts and enchantments, but it also completely hoses token decks. It can be used for single-creature removal in a pinch. Great card.

2x Pernicious Deed : Yeah.

4x Yavimaya Elder : I think this choice as a 4-of will have some people scratching their heads, but for you can rip three cards out of your deck, decreasing your chances to top-deck land later in the game. Declare it as a blocker first to get maximum value. Grave Pact lets this ability double as a kill-spell.

1x Damnation : Sweepers are good.

1x Grave Pact : This card has been a superstar for me, I can't overstate just how awesome this card really is. The cost used to scare me, but with 2x Oracle of Mul Daya and 4x Yavimaya Elder , it has never been an issue. Combos very well with Yavimaya Elder , Master of the Wild Hunt , Greater Good , Mitotic Slime , and Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief . And once your opponent sees this, he has to be very, very careful with his own spot-removal.

2x Greater Good : This card is stupid-good. What's that, you want to Chastise my 15/13 trampling Sewer Nemesis ? Sorry, but I'll take 12 cards instead, thanks.

2x Master of the Wild Hunt : How anyone could cut this card is beyond me. Rancor your wolf first, for style points.

2x Oracle of Mul Daya : I started to rethink this deck when I played against a guy recently who was running this card. He just kept filtering the land out of his deck and onto the battlefield, which made me think of it as a sort of mini Future Sight . It thins your deck and lets you find what you need much, much sooner than would otherwise be possible. You can say that I built this deck around this card, but more specifically, I built it around the concept of thinning the deck as much as possible. And look at all the cards that can do it: 4x Evolving Wilds , 4x Yavimaya Elder , 2x Oracle of Mul Daya , and 2x Greater Good . Grave Pact was a natural next-step because it combos so well with Greater Good and Yavimaya Elder . But it also pairs well with Master of the Wild Hunt because multiple wolves will often die when you activate the ability.

2x Sewer Nemesis : This card penalizes your opponent for playing the game and, if left unchecked, gets out of hand. If playing vs. mill, target yourself for some fun. Excellent combo with Vulturous Zombie .

1x Asceticism : Completely hoses blue decks, severely hampers black and red decks, and lets you block much more liberally against green and white decks. This card is fantastic.

1x Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief : This card was always in my build, but now that I very regularly get 14+ lands onto the battlefield, she can win games in just one swing. And with that much mana, you can finally afford to activate her ability multiple times per turn.

2x Mitotic Slime : What an awesome card for this deck! Gives you presence after a sweeper. Can chump-block endlessly. Sack it to Greater Good to find some answers. Sack it with Grave Pact on board and you get a cute kill-spell. I could go on forever about this card, but I'll just say one more thing; If you have Greater Good and a Blood Artist on board, you can kill an opponent with 7 or less life just by continually sacking this thing and discarding your hand. I've done this a few times and it is fun. 14 life is the threshold if you can find 2x Blood Artist .

2x Spiritmonger : This card is a ridiculous bargain for . Do try to leave a swamp open when you cast it, however!

2x Vulturous Zombie : Like Sewer Nemesis , this card penalizes your opponent for playing the game. His cute combat tricks won't often work because this card gets +1/+1 if he casts one from his hand. And if the combat trick is on the battlefield, then you should have seen it anyway! As mentioned, combos with the Nemesis very nicely.

Here are some notable exclusions:

Diabolic Edict : I find that it's tough to hit the particular creature you want with this card. 2x Pernicious Deed , 1x Damnation , and 1x Grave Pact fulfill the 'Let's remove that pesky Invisible Stalker ' role well enough.

Troll Ascetic : This card never did impress me when I cast it, but I ran it anyway because hexproof and regenerate is an awesome combo. It does slow down the aggro decks a bit, but overall I don't miss it. This build is all about stall, then ramp, then drop bombs.

Consuming Vapors : The lifegain and rebound are nice, but overall I cut it for the same reasons as Diabolic Edict , above.

Creakwood Liege : After it dies (and it will), you'll have a few 1/1 tokens in its place. Meh. It was a difficult cut to make, but after I got over the whole 'It's a Liege, I have to run it' mentality, I was pleasantly surprised to find that I didn't miss it at all. The card is great, don't get me wrong, but this deck doesn't need it.

Gleancrawler : This card is so great in general, and even better with Greater Good on the battlefield, so I am still trying to work it in. I just can't seem to cut that 4th Yavimaya Elder , however (because I know you just thought that).

Classic!

Just the other day I'm playing 2hg with a friend helping him unlocked and I was playing SS to show him how my cut works.
As we were sitting in lobby, I was crowing about how good Deed is and what it's capable of.
Start the game.... I draw both in my starting hand.
Booyakasha!