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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 8:42AM
#681
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2011
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I am always talking in perspective of 1v1. Pretty much everything changes when in a different format. I agree that they are all good cards, but if you run a discard/destroy heavy build at the same time Vulturous Zombie  is rarely 3/3 for more than a turn. Every single card that goes into an opponent GY gives it +1+1. In a deck that is constantly putting cards in an opponent's GY, this adds up very quickly. I use to think it was too slow as well until I got beat up by it a couple times. If you are not running a build focused on discard and destroy (which pretty much any build will atleast be running most destroys) then it is not the best. My current build doesn't run the zombie, but I don't run Sewer Nemesis  or any of the sacrifice self/other cards, etc.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 11:20AM
#682
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2010
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Don't forget that spellheavy decks put cards in their graveyard on a regular basis by simply playing their stuff.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 11:26AM
#683
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Yeah, I'm gonna revamp my build tonight. I'm thinking about running the Zombies as a 2-of, and perhaps trimming the Diabolic Edict  s. I think I'll run the Grave Pact  and Asceticism  as well. The problem with building this deck is that there are too many good cards! I also don't know if Viridian Emissary  has a place in my new build, but with the  cost on a lot of the 3-drops, I'm not sure how it would run without them. Time to test!
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 12:27PM
#684
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2010
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I would definitely like to hear what others think of Oracle of Mul Daya  as well.
I like Oracle, but I only run one of her since spots get pretty tight in this deck. It's a nice ability, but it's not something I really need every game I find. I don't necessarily utilize the ramp, her body is a little frail, so the real advantage typically comes from being able to blow through land clumps. That doesn't always happen thanks to Evolving Wilds, Elders, and Emissary reducing the land count as games go on, so I tend to prefer another power 4/5 drop in Oracle #2's slot.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 1:14PM
#685
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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Land ramp is one area of this deck that I have been trying to fine tune. Having all of it has often felt unnecessary since I only have a couple cards over 5 cmc. Right now I've settled on three Evolving Wilds  , two Viridian Emissary , and two Oracle of Mul Daya . The first two are there to ensure that I get the right lands I need early enough to get the rest of my cards rolling and Oracle is there more so for the card advantage while burning through lands quicker to get to those important cards faster. Yavimaya Elder  is the one I ended up cutting out since two forest by turn three isn't always easy to pull off and the other options can potentially generate land ramp sooner or more efficiently. There is a little risk with the Oracle since it could get removed before you get a chance to lay down an extra land, but when it does work it can do wonders. I wouldn't say that I'm set in stone with my ramp choices, but it's done well from my experience so far.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 2:22PM
#686
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2011
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I would agree that the 2g for Yavimaya Elder can screw you from time to time. Unless running a green heavy deck I think that Oracle of Mul Daya is a great choice. I run a green heavy deck atm and run 2x Viridian Emissary , 2x Yavimaya Elder , and 2x Oracle of Mul Daya for mana ramp. Even then if I had to choose and cut 2 of them, I would also choose the 2x Yavimaya Elder (I have been thinking about this lately myself).
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 2:34PM
#687
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I would agree that the 2g for Yavimaya Elder can screw you from time to time. Unless running a green heavy deck I think that Oracle of Mul Daya is a great choice. I run a green heavy deck atm and run 2x Viridian Emissary , 2x Yavimaya Elder , and 2x Oracle of Mul Daya for mana ramp. Even then if I had to choose and cut 2 of them, I would also choose the 2x Yavimaya Elder (I have been thinking about this lately myself).
I think the Elder  s are great, they rip three cards out of your deck. I'd cut the Emissaries  first, and I'm going to try doing that when I test a new build tonight. The Yavimaya Dryad  is the best ramp, because she doesn't need to die first, and she has the same cost as the Elder s. Throw in the Forestwalk, and you have a pretty good card, IMO.
And actually the Elder s don't ramp you at all, they just fix your manabase. I think running three of these is what I'll do, for the deck thinning, if nothing else. I will be running Grave Pact , so the 'draw-a-card' ability will double as a kill spell!
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 2:47PM
#688
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2011
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I would agree that the 2g for Yavimaya Elder can screw you from time to time. Unless running a green heavy deck I think that Oracle of Mul Daya is a great choice. I run a green heavy deck atm and run 2x Viridian Emissary , 2x Yavimaya Elder , and 2x Oracle of Mul Daya for mana ramp. Even then if I had to choose and cut 2 of them, I would also choose the 2x Yavimaya Elder (I have been thinking about this lately myself).
I think the Elder s are great, they rip three cards out of your deck. I'd cut the Emissaries first, and I'm going to try doing that when I test a new build tonight. The Yavimaya Dryad is the best ramp, because she doesn't need to die first, and she has the same cost as the Elder s. Throw in the Forestwalk, and you have a pretty good card, IMO.
If anyone is running a black heavy build, I think there is no real debate with any of the 2g, I wouldn't run them. As far as running a green heavy build I think your points hold true for the most part.
I disagree about Viridian Emissary being the worst of the ramp options. While it does have to die first, it often doesn't take long before someone doesn't want to take 2 damage (or more if you draw a Rancor  ) and it also only costs 2 mana as opposed to 3-4 making it close to a must in any build imo.
I think that while Forestwalk isn't bad, it really isn't better than an extra card AND mana as well as not having the option to grab a Swamp  and costing 2 x g  . All of these equal out to be least useful ramp imo. I would choose any of the other options first.
I could see someone choosing Yavimaya Elder over Oracle of Mul Daya but I find, as P-Knight said, that the 2g leaves me hanging from time to time.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 3:17PM
#689
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2012
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Yeah it's relavent to note that my build has more swamps than forests so grabbing those two for Yavimaya Elder is more difficult. (Unless I'm mistaken, my understanding is that I have more swamps because I have more green spells.) A ramp/mana fixer option that you can't get out due to a lack of necessary lands doesn't do you much good. It is a good card, but I think the Oracle suits my build better.
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6 months ago ::
Nov 26, 2012 - 4:16PM
#690
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I would agree that the 2g for Yavimaya Elder can screw you from time to time. Unless running a green heavy deck I think that Oracle of Mul Daya is a great choice. I run a green heavy deck atm and run 2x Viridian Emissary , 2x Yavimaya Elder , and 2x Oracle of Mul Daya for mana ramp. Even then if I had to choose and cut 2 of them, I would also choose the 2x Yavimaya Elder (I have been thinking about this lately myself).
I think the Elder s are great, they rip three cards out of your deck. I'd cut the Emissaries first, and I'm going to try doing that when I test a new build tonight. The Yavimaya Dryad is the best ramp, because she doesn't need to die first, and she has the same cost as the Elder s. Throw in the Forestwalk, and you have a pretty good card, IMO.
If anyone is running a black heavy build, I think there is no real debate with any of the 2g, I wouldn't run them. As far as running a green heavy build I think your points hold true for the most part.
I disagree about Viridian Emissary being the worst of the ramp options. While it does have to die first, it often doesn't take long before someone doesn't want to take 2 damage (or more if you draw a Rancor ) and it also only costs 2 mana as opposed to 3-4 making it close to a must in any build imo.
I think that while Forestwalk isn't bad, it really isn't better than an extra card AND mana as well as not having the option to grab a Swamp and costing 2 x g . All of these equal out to be least useful ramp imo. I would choose any of the other options first.
I could see someone choosing Yavimaya Elder over Oracle of Mul Daya but I find, as P-Knight said, that the 2g leaves me hanging from time to time.
I've kept several 2-land hands with the Emissaries, needing it to die to get that 3rd land, but I don't like the fact that my opponent controls whether or not I ramp. If they see me missing land drops, they'll take the 2 dmg per turn and outrace me with bigger threats. I could keep it back on defense, but even still, if I'm missing land drops and they are not they will not kill it. I've resorted to using one of my own kill spells on this card several times, so that's why I'm giving it the boot. Who knows, I may miss it and bring it back. We'll see.
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