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Switch to Forum Live View Grixis Multiplayer Deck
12 months ago  ::  Jun 24, 2012 - 10:51AM #11
Tich
Date Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,105
Diabolic Tutor will rarely-if-ever be better than Syphon Mind . Control decks typically prefer quantity over quality since every card in the deck is so strong. Tutors are great for combo decks that need 1-2 specific cards in order to win, but they're typically too slow and weak to function in Control decks.

Brainstorm is much worse than you probably think it is. In a deck with a bunch of fetchlands and other shuffle effects, sure, it's fine, but in a deck with normal lands it's basically useless. Read it as "1 mana draw a card" because that's all that it's going to be for you. You're going to strand 2 bad cards on the top of your library which you will be forced to draw again. Sure, it MIGHT help fix your hand in the ultra short-run, but in the grand scheme of things all it does is draw 1 card. It's probably the most overrated and misplayed card of all time, since most people simply don't understand why it's considered to be a broken in other formats. It's not a good card for casual decks.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706

My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879

My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211

My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 24, 2012 - 12:04PM #12
dingusstaff69
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2012
Posts: 77
I guess the issue I was running into was speed with my deck. I do like Syphon Mind and will see if I have any, but even still, I think having a couple tutors will help me, because last night I was seemingly just 1 card away from dominating.
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 24, 2012 - 9:42PM #13
Tich
Date Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,105
Well, the best way to think of Diab Tutor is to think of it as any spell in your deck that you have skip a turn in order to play. While that statement isn't entirely accurate in theory, that's how it usually feels in practice. You're tapping out/tapping low and aren't seeing any immediate benefit for it after all. You will get any card in your library, that much is certain, but it's probably less powerful than you think it is.

In terms of early manipulation, go with Preordain or Ponder (worse than Preordain ) if anything. What these cards have over brainstorm is an innate ability to hide/shuffle away "bad" cards in case you can't dig into something relevant. If you use brainstorm to dig for a removal spell and don't find one you know that your next 2 draws won't yield one as well. It's depressing as Hell and it's why Brainstorm is a very bad card in decks that can't consistently shuffle on command. Preordain may not dig as far, but at least you're never Plow Under ing yourself with 2 useless draws.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706

My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879

My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211

My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 3:57AM #14
krichaiushii
Date Joined: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 4,053
If you somehow cannot get Earthquake, Comet Storm isn't bad.

I would reconsider the land base, reworking it so that it is 4 Crumbling Necropolis, 4-6 land fetchers, and the remainder being basic lands.  I say this because so many of your nonbasic lands are entering play tapped.  Since you are black heavy, perhaps lots of swamps and Tainted Isle s and Tainted Peak s instead?  Check out Bl00m's thread on budget nonbasic lands - lots of good stuff therein.

While hunting for Rhystic Study, keep an eye out for Mind's Eye .  Even if you don't run it in here, you will find a use for it elsewhere!

Cheers!
A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama.

www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs.

http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 25, 2012 - 2:22PM #15
dingusstaff69
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2012
Posts: 77
Here's the current plan: Take out the Dark Ritual , Lightning Bolt and the Mana Leak . I do want to keep some counter magic in this deck, so what I am thinking is that I'm going to replace them with Counterspell since I already have a bunch of those. I have added Killing Wave which I'm thinking of getting at least 1 or 2 more of because I only have 1, and like Tich said, I am going to scrounge up some Earthquake and work on getting some card advantage. I am also going to be adding Oppression as well. I agree also on reworking the land base, so to be continued...
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 29, 2012 - 11:34PM #16
Keino
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 2,905
I have a multiplayer nicol bolas themed deck mainly designed to steal everything , attack with them (like bolas manipulating his puppets), then sacrifice them for profit. I built it to be a very long, drawn out control deck, because my meta seems to like building armies. The best game I had with the deck was where 2 players gave up, and the other player had no hand or permanents thanks to nicol bolas, planeswalker , which is the bombiest card in the deck.

To fix my mana, I rely heavily on darksteel ingot and crumbling necropolis . Rhystic study is the best card draw for multiplayer, and my deck would flop without them. Nightscape familiar s and fog bank s are my only creatures in the deck. Propaganda and icy manipulator is something worth looking into, I even tried a version using silent arbiter , back when my deck had a discard theme.

I suggest you look at what kind of decks you're usually up against. I found that my opponents like to build armies and save big fatties for the late game. Naturally, treacherous urge solves that problem in a hilarious way. Clone works just as well.

If you use a lot of specters and such, you might as well go all out with them, either that or use only the best ones, like shimian specter , along with a more controllish build.

I hope this helps!
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Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read. Show

Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.

One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion , hedron crab , and curse of the bloody tome , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.

Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.

If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.

There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind , to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!

Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!

Color Pie Qualities Show

: Order, Law, Faith.
: Knowledge, Artifice, Control.
: Corruption, Death, Self-Interest.
: Freedom, Destruction, Victory.
: Nature, Growth, Life.
: Progressive, but too controlling.
: Focused, but short sighted.
: Skilled, but hypocritical.
: Unified, but without a sense of self.
: Cunning, but devious.
: Inquisitive, but incautious.
: Rational, but impulsive.
: Powerful, but spiteful.
: Instinctive, but selfish.
: Fearless, but reckless.

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Name: Keino
=100                               Class:
x 236                     Diety:
125/200                       

Weapon: Staff of Fire (=2xdmg/=4+3 dmg)
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 08, 2012 - 3:20PM #17
dingusstaff69
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2012
Posts: 77
Here's an update of sorts:

I've added some new cards, but unfortunately some of the cards I wanted to add were not available at my local hobby shop . What I've added is a Jace, Memory Adept that I pulled out of an M12 booster today, as well as some additional control elements like Roil Elemental and Propaganda .  I also added 4 Steady Progress because it has a dual benefit with the Bloodchief Ascension and my planeswalkers adding counters with Proliferate and also assisting with card draw. Haven't had a chance to try it since making the additions, but we'll see how it goes.
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