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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:17PM
#41
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I think the main reason a lot of people are upset with Delver isn't that it's hard to beat, or that it's expensive to build, or any of that. I think it's because they're sick of playing against it constantly. Sick of occasionally getting stuck playing seven Delver decks in a row. Sick of reading tournament reports where the writer has clearly run out of things to say about the deck after the third copy of it in the Top 8.
Sure, it's not unbeatable (or at least, not a deck whose best counter-deck is itself like Caw-Blade) and it's not the only deck you can play. But so many people are playing it, that it can sometimes feel like there's absolutely no variety in the meta.
The DCI can look at win percentages all they want, but what annoys people is the deck's saturation in the meta.
Of course, until player numbers start dropping, they shouldn't ban anything. Their job isn't to make a varied meta, or to help people beat the best deck by weakening it; their job is to make sure people are enjoying the game. As long as they're still getting high turn-outs, they're succeeding at that job.
I just hope they realize that, if turnout starts dropping, it won't be because the deck is unbeatable, so their precious 'just under 51%' statistic won't mean a thing; it will be because you can only play against the same deck so many times before it's just not fun enough to bother showing up to play any more.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:38PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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The reason that so many people are playing it is because it's a well constructed deck that a large portion of the top pros are playing. People whining about so many delver decks in top 8s need to realize that fact. It isn't a bunch of no-name people piloting an easy deck to play, the majority of the players winning with it are truely good players.
As a person that used to play Esper control/solar flare, it was not hard to beat delver. However, it wasn't very fun to play with the Esper deck even when I was crushing most matches. The delver deck is fun to play with and against because of the fact that you and have all kinds of fun little tricks that make you feel like you are outplaying your opponent(whether or not you actually are).
I love playing against the delver matchup because it makes you actually have to play around things and not just turn your guys sideways and win(though that can happen anyway).
I realize that playing against the same deck can be tiresome sometimes, but if you pilot a deck that consistantly wins against it you shouldn't really have anything to worry about. Furthermore, if more players that play decks that beat delver consistantly, you are less likely to continue seeing delver as you get further in the tournament.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 2:49PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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Fenix, don't forget blue is getting a 1 drop 5/5 flyer in M13. Apparently Blue is becoming the new color for aggressive beatdown.
Maybe they'll hand red counterspells to compensate for the theft of good aggro.
And another thumbs up for the Guests post. Delver's in Top 8 is out of control. I don't care about overall win percentage. Over-represented decks always have decent looking overall win percentages. It's tournament wins and Top 8's that matter most, and Delver is currently more than 50% of those spots right now. I have a feeling because it's so darned easy to play. Anyone who thinks otherwise should try playing pod or Solar Flare and just try and argue their decisions are easier. Ain't gonna happen. Only deck easier to play than Delver right now is WR humans, and it's meant to be that easy.
The decisions for delver are not always so easy to make, the fact that you think it's so easy really shows your lack of understanding of the deck and its decisions. I have played solar flare and pod decks. The decisions are rarely tough: windmill-slam sun titan(with cavern in play) and get back all of your images and ratchet bombs etc. With pod decks all the work is done for you if you build the deck properly: put creature into play, trade them up for whatever creatures you need. Is it tough to figure out that if your opponent has a sword to get viridian corruptor off the back of your strangleroot geist?
You should know what you are talking about before you go and post things for all of the internets to see!!!!
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 3:03PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2008
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Arguments against Delver remind me a lot of arguments I heard during Champions/Betrayers Block Constructed before Saviors came out (because that was what most PTQs were). All I heard was that if you weren't playing White Weenie or Gifts, you weren't playing the format right. Didn't keep me from making top 8 with a deck that was neither. I actually got raised eyebrows for playing countermagic in a Block where it was considered, at least locally, to be awful. Sometimes someone needs to shake up the format with a different idea.
Delver does not seem on par to me as some of the truly overly dominant decks such as NecroDonate. It's a high end deck, to be sure, but I don't think anything is truly ban worthy. And the rotation may end up hurting it. We'll need to see.
Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I've seen angels fall from blinding heights.
But you yourself are nothing so divine.
Just next in line.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 3:57PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2010
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I've quit standard again (I've only done it in response to Jace) until delver drops down to under 30-40% of the meta. I'm done for now, not buying any m13 and I won't spend a dime on standard. I know several players doing the same and chances are this will not be a localized occurence. 90% of the people I hear say "delver isn't a problem" are all playing delver so the arguments seem moot. Auto-pilot: If I hear one more delver player try to explain to me about how since they have 3 1 drops they can't decide which to play first, hence making the deck not auto-pilot I will tear their face off and eat it. You want to think? Play legacy or anything other than delver. Whenever I see a delver player play I see them just sit and contemplate for like 10 minutes on which land they drop first, when all their one drops cost U, its laughable when anyone tries to explain an auto-pilot aggro deck like its a game of Shougi. Its also funny when you hear people explain the "best" delver players. I have actially heard this: "he showed his true delver skills by flipping it on turn 2"... that is not skill, but nice try. Enjoy the meta spikes, the prize pool is about to dwindle as more and more players sit at home. and BTW, DCI YOU DONE MESSED UP. Raven 
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 4:13PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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Fenix, don't forget blue is getting a 1 drop 5/5 flyer in M13. Apparently Blue is becoming the new color for aggressive beatdown.
Maybe they'll hand red counterspells to compensate for the theft of good aggro.
And another thumbs up for the Guests post. Delver's in Top 8 is out of control. I don't care about overall win percentage. Over-represented decks always have decent looking overall win percentages. It's tournament wins and Top 8's that matter most, and Delver is currently more than 50% of those spots right now. I have a feeling because it's so darned easy to play. Anyone who thinks otherwise should try playing pod or Solar Flare and just try and argue their decisions are easier. Ain't gonna happen. Only deck easier to play than Delver right now is WR humans, and it's meant to be that easy.
The decisions for delver are not always so easy to make, the fact that you think it's so easy really shows your lack of understanding of the deck and its decisions. I have played solar flare and pod decks. The decisions are rarely tough: windmill-slam sun titan(with cavern in play) and get back all of your images and ratchet bombs etc. With pod decks all the work is done for you if you build the deck properly: put creature into play, trade them up for whatever creatures you need. Is it tough to figure out that if your opponent has a sword to get viridian corruptor off the back of your strangleroot geist?
You should know what you are talking about before you go and post things for all of the internets to see!!!!
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are you kidding me? A drunken baboon could play the delver deck decently simply because most of the stuff in there is overpowered. Please think out your postings before bothering to open your mouth.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 4:24PM
#47
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M13 has nothing that beats Delver so far. Will it be like when Great Sable Stag and Volcanic Fallout put a stop to Faeries? Oh...wait...that didn't happen.
That's funny how Delver is getting walked on by any decent W/x Human or G/x aggro decks. The best players are still running Gerry T's build so of course they will be in top 8 lists, but Delver is not comepletely owning accross the board, so no bans need to be made.
I'm glad they didn't ban anything in Standard. Delver is very beatable.
And please, Delver is as easy to play as Tempered Steel. It's not hard to decide on dropping Delver, Ponder, Vapor Snag/Mana Leak, Snapcaster, Blade Splicer, and finish with a Resto Angel. Throw a sword in there if you have it. The play order is auto pilot mode. I played Delver Architect for some time and got bored.
Residual energetic and psychic emenations from the spark of planewalkers going in and out of the blind eternities like it was a windmill eventually coalesced into beings named eldrazi who by their very nature could not consume mundane sources of nourishment to sustain their existence.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 4:27PM
#48
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The reason that so many people are playing it is because it's a well constructed deck that a large portion of the top pros are playing.
I love how people in Standard can be original enough to build competitive decks themselves.
The problem isn't that Delver is so good. It's that other players are so bad at building decks to compete.
With exceptions.
Residual energetic and psychic emenations from the spark of planewalkers going in and out of the blind eternities like it was a windmill eventually coalesced into beings named eldrazi who by their very nature could not consume mundane sources of nourishment to sustain their existence.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 4:35PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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Fenix, don't forget blue is getting a 1 drop 5/5 flyer in M13. Apparently Blue is becoming the new color for aggressive beatdown.
Maybe they'll hand red counterspells to compensate for the theft of good aggro.
And another thumbs up for the Guests post. Delver's in Top 8 is out of control. I don't care about overall win percentage. Over-represented decks always have decent looking overall win percentages. It's tournament wins and Top 8's that matter most, and Delver is currently more than 50% of those spots right now. I have a feeling because it's so darned easy to play. Anyone who thinks otherwise should try playing pod or Solar Flare and just try and argue their decisions are easier. Ain't gonna happen. Only deck easier to play than Delver right now is WR humans, and it's meant to be that easy.
The decisions for delver are not always so easy to make, the fact that you think it's so easy really shows your lack of understanding of the deck and its decisions. I have played solar flare and pod decks. The decisions are rarely tough: windmill-slam sun titan(with cavern in play) and get back all of your images and ratchet bombs etc. With pod decks all the work is done for you if you build the deck properly: put creature into play, trade them up for whatever creatures you need. Is it tough to figure out that if your opponent has a sword to get viridian corruptor off the back of your strangleroot geist?
You should know what you are talking about before you go and post things for all of the internets to see!!!!
L
O
L
are you kidding me? A drunken baboon could play the delver deck decently simply because most of the stuff in there is overpowered. Please think out your postings before bothering to open your mouth.
Have you played it? Seems to me that you are making snap judgments based on what you have heard and not what you have experienced.
The decicions that you have to make are not necessarily about what cards to play, but when to play them. Timing and tempo are a large part of what separates the good delver players and the bad ones.
Overpowered is an adjective used by bad players that don't know how to describe something they don't know how to play against. Stop pissing and moaning about delver decks and make something that beats it; otherwise, shut up or play the deck too.
Just because you lose to a deck doesn't mean that it's overpowered and broken, it means that you lack the skill to make anything that can best it(which isn't that difficult).
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13 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 4:36PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2012
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The reason that so many people are playing it is because it's a well constructed deck that a large portion of the top pros are playing.
I love how people in Standard can be original enough to build competitive decks themselves.
The problem isn't that Delver is so good. It's that other players are so bad at building decks to compete.
With exceptions.
^^Love this!
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