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Switch to Forum Live View D13 - Dream Puppets (Jace) Deck List and Strategies
11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 1:40AM #391
HieroGlyph
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 918
Alright, after a few games here is my updated decklist so far...

Speedy Mill Promo Edition

25 x Island

Creatures (15)
2 x Hedron Crab
4 x Jace's Phantasm
2 x Aether Adept
3 x Dreamborn Muse
2 x Body Double
2 x Chancellor of the Spire

Spells (21)
2 x Prosperity
2 x Tome Scour
2 x Unsummon
2 x Counterspell
2 x Howling Mine
2 x Into the Roil
2 x Jace's Erasure
3 x Mind Sculpt
1 x Sands of Delirium
1 x Wheel and Deal
1 x Archive Trap
1 x Forced Fruition

61 cards total.

Wheel and Deal   is still undecided but it combos nicely with Dreamborn Muse  or after bouncing a target.  The exclusion of Clone  still needs some testing but I feel that Body Double   fills the role better anyway.  I removed Visions of Beyond   since it was underperforming; either I drew 1 card when things were going poorly or drew 3 cards when things were already solid.  Neither made much difference overall, although the 1 CMC was nice.  Prosperity  has filled this gap and combos better with Muse  and Erasure Forced Fruition  is expensive but solid and closes out the match incredibly strong.  I'll keep testing and note any changes, but so far I am enjoying how it runs currently.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 1:50AM #392
ShidoshiWins
Date Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 458
Forced Fruition seems a bit win-more for me, if by turn 6 the opponent still hasn't got a good board position on you in terms of creatures you are probably going to win anyway. And if they already have a good board position they can just keep swinging for the win while you waste a turn tapping out to play that.

I haven't really tested it myself, but I don't see this really helping a whole lot since this deck either wins by turns 7-8 or loses steam on the control and you lose. Thus making Forced Fruition not much better than the other mill cards you have but one that your opponents can work around.
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 2:07AM #393
HieroGlyph
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 918

Jul 9, 2012 -- 1:50AM, ShidoshiWins wrote:

Forced Fruition seems a bit win-more for me, if by turn 6 the opponent still hasn't got a good board position on you in terms of creatures you are probably going to win anyway. And if they already have a good board position they can just keep swinging for the win while you waste a turn tapping out to play that.

I haven't really tested it myself, but I don't see this really helping a whole lot since this deck either wins by turns 7-8 or loses steam on the control and you lose. Thus making Forced Fruition not much better than the other mill cards you have but one that your opponents can work around.




The point is that Forced Fruition  allows you to stall and still manage a victory or put enough pressure on your opponent that they are literally unable to play a non-land card.  Yes, 6 CMC is expensive but just like with the Chancellor  it can swing a long game in your favor rather quickly.  As you mentioned, if the game hits turn 6+ you need a way to end it as quickly as possible.   Forced Fruition   allows you to accomplish this by placing your opponent on a clock that limits how many non-land cards they can play.

EDIT:  It can certainly be a win-more card, but it can also swing the game in your favor.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 2:11AM #394
ShidoshiWins
Date Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 458

Jul 9, 2012 -- 2:07AM, HieroGlyph wrote:

Jul 9, 2012 -- 1:50AM, ShidoshiWins wrote:

Forced Fruition seems a bit win-more for me, if by turn 6 the opponent still hasn't got a good board position on you in terms of creatures you are probably going to win anyway. And if they already have a good board position they can just keep swinging for the win while you waste a turn tapping out to play that.

I haven't really tested it myself, but I don't see this really helping a whole lot since this deck either wins by turns 7-8 or loses steam on the control and you lose. Thus making Forced Fruition not much better than the other mill cards you have but one that your opponents can work around.




The point is that Forced Fruition  allows you to stall and still manage a victory or put enough pressure on your opponent that they are literally unable to play a non-land card.  Yes, 6 CMC is expensive but just like with the Chancellor  it can swing a long game in your favor rather quickly.  As you mentioned, if the game hits turn 6+ you need a way to end it as quickly as possible.   Forced Fruition   allows you to accomplish this by placing your opponent on a clock that limits how many non-land cards they can play.



Forced Fruition doesn't affect board position like the Chancellor  does, it doesn't help you at all if the opponent already has creatures down.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 2:25AM #395
Kassimus
Date Joined: May 25, 2012
Posts: 11
Where have you got those new cards from? Is there a new DLC out now? I haven't found anything on PSN, yesterday!
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 2:28AM #396
HieroGlyph
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 918

Jul 9, 2012 -- 2:25AM, Kassimus wrote:

Where have you got those new cards from? Is there a new DLC out now? I haven't found anything on PSN, yesterday!



Read this thread:  community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

@ShidosiWins
To be fair, not many cards do what you are suggesting.  From my limited experience with Forced Fruition it can swing a game in your favor or allow you to seal a victory with absolutely no chance of recovery for your opponent.  I had it win me a game tonight that would otherwise have been out of reach by taking an opponent's library from the 40's to the 20's.  No other single card would have been capable of this.  That alone makes it worth trying before you pass judgement on it.  As I mentioned previously, my newest build is still being tweaked but so far Forced Fruition seems like a solid finisher for the mill deck.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 10:39AM #397
Killyox
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2011
Posts: 71

Jul 9, 2012 -- 1:40AM, HieroGlyph wrote:

Alright, after a few games here is my updated decklist so far...

Speedy Mill Promo Edition

25 x Island

Creatures (15)
2 x Hedron Crab
4 x Jace's Phantasm
2 x Aether Adept
3 x Dreamborn Muse
2 x Body Double
2 x Chancellor of the Spire

Spells (21)
2 x Prosperity
2 x Tome Scour
2 x Unsummon
2 x Counterspell
2 x Howling Mine
2 x Into the Roil
2 x Jace's Erasure
3 x Mind Sculpt
1 x Sands of Delirium
1 x Wheel and Deal
1 x Archive Trap
1 x Forced Fruition

61 cards total.

Wheel and Deal   is still undecided but it combos nicely with Dreamborn Muse  or after bouncing a target.  The exclusion of Clone  still needs some testing but I feel that Body Double   fills the role better anyway.  I removed Visions of Beyond   since it was underperforming; either I drew 1 card when things were going poorly or drew 3 cards when things were already solid.  Neither made much difference overall, although the 1 CMC was nice.  Prosperity  has filled this gap and combos better with Muse  and Erasure Forced Fruition  is expensive but solid and closes out the match incredibly strong.  I'll keep testing and note any changes, but so far I am enjoying how it runs currently.




Why no Traumatize? Often you will get it and "half deck" is pretty much always useful with few exceptions where you are about to win.

I also dislike Sands of delirium and Wheel and Deal Instead of these 2 i prefer 2x traumatize.

Not too keen on Aether Adept either even though it's a bounce with blocker.

Why don't you take Dream Fracture? It's a nice card to have.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 10:43AM #398
DIVINExREVOLUTION
Date Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Posts: 105
Whats your guys creature percentage for this deck? Mine is 37% but its seems kind of low especially when i play a game and draw a sword of body and mind with no creatures to equip it to for a couple of turns or wen i finally play a creature and it gets destroyed making me wait for another creature
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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 12:19PM #399
HieroGlyph
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 918

Jul 9, 2012 -- 10:39AM, Killyox wrote:


Why no Traumatize? Often you will get it and "half deck" is pretty much always useful with few exceptions where you are about to win.

I also dislike Sands of delirium and Wheel and Deal Instead of these 2 i prefer 2x traumatize.

Not too keen on Aether Adept either even though it's a bounce with blocker.

Why don't you take Dream Fracture? It's a nice card to have.




To be fair, Traumatize   is not an instant and comes into play far too late to matter in most cases as this is a speedy mill build.  If this deck had ample walls or methods of surviving into late game then I could see the value in placing half of my opponent's current library into their graveyard but as it stands now, I usually have them down to 30 by the time I can even play it and at that point it does too little too late.  Forced Fruition , on the other hand, limits my opponent's plays which provides an extra layer of control in addition to the mill effect from the draw.

Sands  provides a great sink and as I use mostly instant this allows me to control the board.  If I have any remaining lands I simply dump them into Sands  during my opponent's end step.  Sure, it's not cost effective but those untapped lands add up throughout a match and give me a lot of added mill that would otherwise be wasted.

Wheel and Deal  is my new experiment and I noted as much in my post.  I'm not sold on it yet but as it is an instant and does have some combo potential I have it included for now.  I am still entirely undecided on it though.  It could easily be replaced with Dream Fracture .

Aether Adept  fills the 3-slot for me instead of adding more to the already overcrowded 4-slot.  While I agree that this card is not fantastic it allows me to stall for a turn and provides me with a blocker.  To date it has performed better than Clone  though, which is saying a lot actually.  Still, I'm open to change but I would never swap them for a non-creature card.

Dream Fracture  is interesting as it would fit right in with my current deck due to being an instant and providing card draw.  To be honest, I simply did not have room for it with the other changes that I made and once I get a handle on them I can then reevaluate whether I want to include it and what it would replace.  I agree that it is a great card though.

EDIT:

Jul 9, 2012 -- 10:43AM, DIVINExREVOLUTION wrote:

Whats your guys creature percentage for this deck? Mine is 37% but its seems kind of low especially when i play a game and draw a sword of body and mind with no creatures to equip it to for a couple of turns or wen i finally play a creature and it gets destroyed making me wait for another creature




Doesn't that imply that you should drop the Sword  then?  There are times where I miss having it but as a 1-of it was far too inconsistant.  Although the deck currently has 2 of them included, using both will not solve the creature problem.

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11 months ago  ::  Jul 09, 2012 - 1:06PM #400
gardenweasel
Date Joined: Apr 1, 2012
Posts: 464
Grindstone seemed great, but given the high land-count of most decks, it's not a very good performer.  In a 60 card mono-color deck with 25 lands, it's only going to burn 2 cards about 66% of the time, and 4 cards or less 88% of the time.. and that doesn't take into account non-land cards swapped for artifacts.  And once the multicolor decks come, it's only going to get worse.
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