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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 1:56PM
#761
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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Traumatize is there in case I don't get a crab early or it gets killed. I really have no other way of filling a graveyard besides it and there isn't anything else as quick or efficient as traumatize in this deck. The larger the deck, the better too. The sword can do it but I have to get it and equip it on a creature (creature has to survive) and it can't be blocked. Very very situational.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:01PM
#762
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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I have yet to hear a reason how Traumatize  is better than Mind Sculpt  for getting things in the grave faster for Jace's Phantasm  and Body Double  shenanigans. I read English perfectly fine. I never said to add them for the mill kill.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:13PM
#763
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:20PM
#764
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2012
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Thought i'd weigh in on the conversation. Been playing your deck for quite a bit Killa and my first impression is that I like it. I was very skeptical about the lack Muses and direct mill spells but so far its working well. I'm going to post a detailed analysis in a bit but for now I thought i'd throw in my 2 cents about traumatize. There are two types of efficiency that cards can have. Mana efficiency and card efficiency. Traumatize manages to have a bit of both. This one card can mill 20+ cards easily for only one card. Mind Sculpt would need 2 cards to do the same. True 5cmc is a steep price to pay but in a slower tempo more control oriented deck its more possible. Mind SCultp  would need 6cmc to mill the same amount anyway. I'm not saying that Traumatize is the greatest card and needs to be in every variant, no. But in certain decks like Killa's it manages a large quantity of the mill very nciely. Killa my initial testing would indicate that at least 2 Traumatize are needed in your deck. Any fewer and you'd lose consistency.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:26PM
#765
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:37PM
#766
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2012
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Thought i'd weigh in on the conversation. Been playing your deck for quite a bit Killa and my first impression is that I like it. I was very skeptical about the lack Muses and direct mill spells but so far its working well. I'm going to post a detailed analysis in a bit but for now I thought i'd throw in my 2 cents about traumatize.
There are two types of efficiency that cards can have. Mana efficiency and card efficiency. Traumatize manages to have a bit of both. This one card can mill 20+ cards easily for only one card. Mind Sculpt would need 2 cards to do the same. True 5cmc is a steep price to pay but in a slower tempo more control oriented deck its more possible. Mind SCultp would need 6cmc to mill the same amount anyway. I'm not saying that Traumatize is the greatest card and needs to be in every variant, no. But in certain decks like Killa's it manages a large quantity of the mill very nciely.
Killa my initial testing would indicate that at least 2 Traumatize are needed in your deck. Any fewer and you'd lose consistency.
What platform are you playing on? And are you winning more than losing, breaking out even? I am still yet to face peacekeepers once in 15 games with it. Seems odd as that seems like a pretty solid deck for 1v1.
I just think the blue decks are the funnest to play, that is why I played Talrand/Jace 6 of my 15 games with it.
Though yeah, I am not sure why others can't see how integral traumatize is to this build. It amazes me. Also, mind sculpt would require all three to equal the minimum boundary of Traumatize so in terms of efficiency in both number of cards and cost its inferior.
Killa - kind of confused - since you said the main theme of this build is control and graveyard manipulation...I definitely see where you're coming from with the control aspect as I run many of the same cards, but aside from Traumatize and the Hedron Crabs, I don't see that much that would get things into your opponent's graveyard to manipulate with Body Double or Chancellor...
Also - not that I play a lot of 1v1, but when I have, 90% of the time my opponents are running trimmed decks on the PS3. I don't play on another format so can't speak to it, but if you're running into many people running a lot more than 60 on the iPad, it just might be that they don't know they should be trimming their decks - which leads me to think of all the other things they probably aren't doing in general gameplay. How many of the matches on iPad have been matches where you felt the opponent actually knew what he was doing? (i.e. running trimmed deck and played around what he knew your deck was capable of)
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:41PM
#767
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2012
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I just checked killa's build and I think I solved the mistery. His deck mills to few cards in the early game, so Traumatize can hit a bigger deck in the late game. It's a card that's going to be good only in this kind of build, and mediocre everywhere else. Also, killa, can you please stop making so many double/triple posts? I don't know if this is a violation of any code in this forum, but it just makes this thread even harder to follow. Come on, I'm asking nicely 
WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:47PM
#768
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2012
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Thought i'd weigh in on the conversation. Been playing your deck for quite a bit Killa and my first impression is that I like it. I was very skeptical about the lack Muses and direct mill spells but so far its working well. I'm going to post a detailed analysis in a bit but for now I thought i'd throw in my 2 cents about traumatize.
There are two types of efficiency that cards can have. Mana efficiency and card efficiency. Traumatize manages to have a bit of both. This one card can mill 20+ cards easily for only one card. Mind Sculpt would need 2 cards to do the same. True 5cmc is a steep price to pay but in a slower tempo more control oriented deck its more possible. Mind SCultp would need 6cmc to mill the same amount anyway. I'm not saying that Traumatize is the greatest card and needs to be in every variant, no. But in certain decks like Killa's it manages a large quantity of the mill very nciely.
Killa my initial testing would indicate that at least 2 Traumatize are needed in your deck. Any fewer and you'd lose consistency.
What platform are you playing on? And are you winning more than losing, breaking out even? I am still yet to face peacekeepers once in 15 games with it. Seems odd as that seems like a pretty solid deck for 1v1.
I just think the blue decks are the funnest to play, that is why I played Talrand/Jace 6 of my 15 games with it.
Though yeah, I am not sure why others can't see how integral traumatize is to this build. It amazes me. Also, mind sculpt would require all three to equal the minimum boundary of Traumatize so in terms of efficiency in both number of cards and cost its inferior.
Killa - kind of confused - since you said the main theme of this build is control and graveyard manipulation...I definitely see where you're coming from with the control aspect as I run many of the same cards, but aside from Traumatize and the Hedron Crabs, I don't see that much that would get things into your opponent's graveyard to manipulate with Body Double or Chancellor...
That is why I have two trauamatize and 11 draw cards that help me get them and the card I need. In addition, the crabs mill quite effectively and the 3 thought scour help a pinch, but the card draw is the kicker for them.
Also - not that I play a lot of 1v1, but when I have, 90% of the time my opponents are running trimmed decks on the PS3. I don't play on another format so can't speak to it, but if you're running into many people running a lot more than 60 on the iPad, it just might be that they don't know they should be trimming their decks - which leads me to think of all the other things they probably aren't doing in general gameplay. How many of the matches on iPad have been matches where you felt the opponent actually knew what he was doing? (i.e. running trimmed deck and played around what he knew your deck was capable of)
Even if one out of 3 people run large decks its still good and the traumatize will get me 20-25 on a trimmed deck anyways. So either way its a win.
Ipad seems to have a mix of good and bad just like the psn. I'm just starting to run some 1v1 on psn right now though so I will let you know how it goes....
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:56PM
#769
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2012
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I just checked killa's build and I think I solved the mistery. His deck mills to few cards in the early game, so Traumatize can hit a bigger deck in the late game. It's a card that's going to be good only in this kind of build, and mediocre everywhere else.
Also, killa, can you please stop making so many double/triple posts? I don't know if this is a violation of any code in this forum, but it just makes this thread even harder to follow. Come on, I'm asking nicely
I figured as much - and makes sense given all the cantrips he runs. However the fact that there are only 2 Traumatize means that he may never even draw them. This means that his phantasms will rarely be 5/5 (as the crabs are easily removed), and he wouldn't have many targets for Body Double or Chancellor. I get that there won't be many cards by not going the traditional mill route, but I feel like you could have milled almost as many cards by the time you reach turn 5 (more effectively) by including Tome Scour and Mind Sculpt, among other things - which would mean on turn 5 you're casting Body Double for something nice, instead of using Traumatize turn 5 and then using Body Double on turn 6.
That said, while it certainly doesn't seem as powerful as killa says it is, I do play with him in 2HG a fair bit and he knows his stuff - we've gone 50/50 when playing against each other and I think I'm a pretty competent player. So it probably does work, but I am just interested in seeing how in actual play.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 15, 2012 - 2:59PM
#770
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Yes, Traumatize hits more cards, it's amazing that I know how to do math. My point is, if you're going the graveyard manipulation route, wouldn't you rather be ready to go on turn 5 with a Body Double after hitting some cards with a Mind Sculpt and your mini-mill cards (or Sword), or would you rather wait on a Double after turn 5 so you can get your Traumatize on? I think the former would be a little more consistent. But you're the pro, so what do I know. Also: W/R/T posting your iPad W/L statistics: 1) IOS devices, in theory, are made up of way more "casuals" than other platforms, I'd argue 2) There are no separate lobbies for regular and ranked matches, so, on average, you're going to run into said "casuals" more often 3) You can stay in the same lobby and play the same dude over and over, if you want. Not saying you're doing it, but... In conclusion, I'd be more impressed with your statistics if you were running your list in tourneys or against fellow forum dwellers. The end.
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