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12 months ago ::
Jul 01, 2012 - 6:28PM
#51
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All right. So, with that in mind, I use...let's say Myojin of Life's Web  's ability...to put a Runeclaw Bear  , a Gluttonous Slime  , and an Essence Warden  onto the battlefield. How much life should I gain, why, and how do you explain that to someone who isn't familiar with the rules?
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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12 months ago ::
Jul 02, 2012 - 11:28PM
#52
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Here is my proposed rule. "An effect that modifies an event may cause objects to change zones. Such an effect can't cause an object to change zones if the event or any modified events that replace it already contain intructions that would cause that object to change zones." It is based on rule 614.13. With the proposed rule. If two Gluttonous Slime s were entering the battlefield at the same time. You could choose one of the replacement effects to apply first and choose to sacrifice two creatures with that replacement effect. When you apply the replacement effect for the second Slime, you could not choose to sacrifice the two creatures that are already being sacrificed.
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11 months ago ::
Jul 03, 2012 - 5:39AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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I think I'm reading your rule wrong, but it seems to me like it would break Leyline of the Void  so that it doesn't do anything. In what context is it meant to apply?
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11 months ago ::
Jul 03, 2012 - 9:45PM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2010
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Well, today's Update Bulletin says this issue's getting fixed. About time!
Rules Nut Advisor
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11 months ago ::
Jul 04, 2012 - 1:23AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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Sounds like PirateAmmo was pretty much right on. [link]
"Go, then. There are other worlds than these." -- Stephen King, The Gunslinger Some things to make the forums nicer -- Last updated 28 Apr
Show
Share and enjoy. Suggestions for new things to fix always welcome!
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11 months ago ::
Jul 04, 2012 - 3:19PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2011
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All right. So, with that in mind, I use...let's say Myojin of Life's Web 's ability...to put a Runeclaw Bear , a Gluttonous Slime , and an Essence Warden onto the battlefield. How much life should I gain, why, and how do you explain that to someone who isn't familiar with the rules?
Now I see why this rule was introduced. This is what would happen without rule 400.6:
We have several simultaneous actions (A : Runeclaw Bear enters the battlefield, B: Gluttonous Slime enters the battlefield and C: Essence Warden enters the battlefield).
If we apply devour, B turns into two events B1 : "you may sacrifice any number of creatures" and B2: "This permanent enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it for each creature sacrificed this way."
Now we have a problem. Should the events A and C be simultaneous with B1 or B2? If they are simultaneous with B1, then Essence Warden will trigger only once. If they are simultaneous with B2, then Essence Warden will trigger twice. The rule for objects changing zones was intended to fix this, because almost all the cases where this could be a problem happen with object changing zones (The only exception I can think of is the one discussed in this thread).
Making all actions that happen when objects change zones simultaneous and the most recent rules update to fix devour are basically patches that don't adress the underlying problem. This is not necessarily bad, because they fix almost all the problems that can be found with the current cards.
The underlying problem is: when several actions happen simultaneously, and some of those actions are replaced with something that requires several steps, how can the original actions be simultaneous with the replaced ones? In the thread about Lich's Mirror that I linked, some possible solutions were discussed.
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