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Jul 1, 2012 -- 11:58PM, Kinsonal wrote:

my post m13 build..basically the same thing only i added in a locket because i think it will work extra well with faiths reward. im thinking about adding in compulsive research .  
14 land 
4 Ghost Quarter                                  
6 Island                                                     
4 darksteel citadel                                                                
                                                                   

2 Creature                                                    
2 Riddlesmith                                   

16 Spells
4 Second Sunrise                           
4 faith's reward
4 Reshape                                       
3 Edge of Autumn                           
1 banefire

28 Artifacts                                                 
2 Locket of Yesterdays      
3 ichor wellspring
3 terrarion          
4 Conjurer's Bauble                       
4 Chromatic Sphere                    
4 Chromatic Star                         
3 Lotus Bloom  
3 krark-clan ironworks                    
1 Pyrite Spellbomb                      
1 aether spellbomb 

Some feedback for you;

I cannot understand what benefits playing Riddlesmith  has if you are not running  Open the Vaults as you cannot return discarded artifacts with Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward ?  

I am not sure why you need Edge of Autumn in the KCI build it seems kinda out of place, why not just  play Elsewhere Flask instead?

Why are you playing Pyrite Spellbomb ? If you are looking for an alt win con then play Laboratory Maniac we can draw our entire deck so it makes sense for us to play him.

I am confused how  Locket of Yesterdays helps Faith's Reward , as you should be playing the deck that as soon as you have  Conjurer's Bauble  you put either  Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward on the bottom of library, draw, then tap, sac Ghost Quarter to shuffle Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward  into a position where you stand a greater chance of seeing it again, if you aren't doing this then I feel you maybe playing the deck wrong.  

Jul 3, 2012 -- 6:17PM, Kinsonal wrote:

@Mise_Mage

my strategy for riddlesmith is to get more draw out of artifacts...Play a chromatic star, draw a card discard one of the many extra lands or lotus blooms that are stuck in your hand. Seems efficient to me.

without edeg of autumn i dont think i would be able to recycle my lands as often as i need to.

i probably will take out spellbomb.

locket helps faith and second sunrise to make them less mana intense.  if i have a single faith in the gy and 2 lockets in play then now i pay 2 mana wich could be easily obtained through a lotus...
this all helps make more efficent plays.  

i do see what you mean about the locket but this just provides an alternate way to recycle. 

This is all just my strategy and playstyle, im sure there are other ways to play 

All I can say is, dude please play a different deck you are not playing optimally at all if this is the way you think. You need to understand that playing this deck optimally is a MUST not a choice, if you aren't playing this as optimal as possible then you are playing the deck wrong. You cannot play the deck as noted in your strategy and expect to win, as you are missing plays and are actually doing thigs that are hurting the decks consistency, just because you want to save 1 or 2 mana on Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward (which is insignificant). I have wondered for a long time if you had a good grasp of how this deck plays or how to play it optimally, in the above statement you just proved, that with the sub par choices like Edge of Autumn moreso in KCI which is NOT needed whatsoever, and not using Conjurer's Bauble ASAP to put Sunrise and Reward on the bottom, then use our shuffle effects to put in a position where we have a greater chance of drawing it again, you have no clue of how to play this deck optimally at all.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 11:11AM, Nango wrote:

@Mise_Mage
how about instead of telling him to find a new deck, how bout you tell him what he is doing wrong. Since he apparently doesnt understand how you play the deck optimally. This is apparently a harder deck to run.  On another note, is there only one way to run this deck? Why is the way he runs the deck worse or more inconsistant than yours?

Maybe I was harsh saying what I did, but I find a bug bear of mine, that if a player chooses to play a deck that requires alot from the player, then starts saying stuff that would effect the deck's consitency, comes accross to me as a player that cannot understand how this deck should be played at all, with this in mind I shall run down why the way he runs is worse and less optimal.

Riddlesmith ; This card is fine as it gives the deck a looter effect, the argument over Sculptor or Riddlesmith is purely down to the players approach, the problem with Riddlesmith is that to abuse him to the maximum, you need some way of getting your eggs that you might have to discard to it back, Kinsonal is not playing Open the Vaults so unless his Conjurer's Bauble is doing double duty I cannot see how he is getting eggs back this way.

Edge of Autumn ;  Edge of Autumn is perfectly fine in the non KCI build, but because Kinsonal is playing KCI we need to compare it to the glaring omission at the 2 CMC of our KCI build curve, so lets compare  Edge of Autumn to Ichor Wellspring , as you can see straight away, Ichor Wellspring is  better for the deck for a number of reasons they are;

1. Can be searched mid combo with Reshape .
2. Generates 2 for 1 card advatage from being resolved and then sacrified to KCI or Reshape.
3. Doesn't require us to splash  a color, incase we need to cast it.
4. Does the deck really  a second Ghost Quarter effect minus "ramping/searching/shuffling" for us?

Locket of Yesterday's ; this is a card that has to be in the Riddlesmith build, and is perfectly fine in that build. Non KCI players should be using this as a "pusedo" Sculptor and should only be reducing Second Sunrise and/or Faith's Reward when we don't have a  Conjurer's Bauble out or when we are generating "pusedo" mana for  themselves because they are due to run out of actual mana sources, as the non KCI build cannot generate as much mana as the KCI build can. We should always be using  Conjurer's Bauble to put Second Sunrise and/or Faith's Reward on the bottom of our library before we do anything else in the KCI build, the reason is, so our combo can carry on for as long as possible. If kinsonal wasn't playing KCI in his build, then I would agree with the play of leaving  Second Sunrise and/or Faith's Reward in my yard, but they aren't and generating "free" mana for Second Sunrise and/or Faith's Reward in the KCI build is not really needed as we have enough mana to support there CMC's...."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />

Jul 5, 2012 -- 6:21PM, Kinsonal wrote:

@Mise_Mage
So a question i want you to answer is what do i do with the excess lands in my hand? nothing? Thanx. Oh and was i suppose to use edge for the land fetch? i always used it to cycle. 

if i come across a mox opal i will definantly add that in because it will definantly help. so what do you think? I definantly think i need more lands so i added some in. Is adding 2 plains enough/good or should i stick with islands? Should i cut and island for a terranion? Thanx for your input. I hope to learn to play optimally.

so the build would look like:

18 land 
4 Ghost Quarter                                  
8 Island
2 plains                                                     
4 darksteel citadel                                                                
                                                                   

2 Creature
2 etherium sculptor                

13 Spells
4 Second Sunrise
4 faith's reward
4 Reshape
1 banefire

27 Artifacts      
3 ichor wellspring
2 terrarion
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
3 Lotus Bloom
3 krark-clan ironworks
1 laboratory maniac
1 aether spellbomb
2 elsewhere flask

15 sideboard
3 spell pierce
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 pithing needle
1 defense grid
3 silence
3 echoing truth
1 angel's grace
2 early frost / wipe away when i get them

What do I do with the excess lands in my hand? nothing?

Ideally you want to fecth as many basic lands out as possible with Ghost Quarter so therefore we stand a lower chance of drawing these "dead cards" mid combo. 

Oh and was i suppose to use edge for the land fetch?

Ideally you would use Edge of Autumn pre combo to accel you so you was drawing less "dead cards" and could set up a mana pool to use whilst comboing, mid combo Edge of Autumn turned into a "free" cantrip.
 
This build is absolutley fine, 18 lands is perfectly fine, if you do manage to get a Mox Opal take out a Island for it. On the subject of lands, 2 plains is more than enough, the reason being is that we can search for them off our Ghost Quarter , so we can start storing white mana to help us against people who Remand Second Sunrise and/or Faith's Reward .

Terrarion is a card that I would leave as a 2 of, I used to play 3 pre M13, but now we have Faith's Reward , we don't have to worry about fizziling mid combo as much now as we would before, so with this in mind we can relax some of our draw effects.

If you can tell me the hate cards you are encountering then I can help you build a sideboard that fits your meta, my sideboard is what I like to call a "generic" sideboard, as it has what I hope is answers to popular "archetypes" as that is what my meta is, my sideboard isn't anti a specfic any deck, but are cards that I can use against multiple decks even myself.

Jul 5, 2012 -- 11:07PM, Kinsonal wrote:

@Mise_Mage
the problem im having is what to switch the sb cards for... 

This is the problem with Eggs, as everything in the deck helps the deck's consistency, so by adding in cards and taking out cards seems almost backwards for us. Where most decks add things in and take things out that make it better for them games 2/3, we actually make our deck less consistent. Unfortunately with this deck I fear that there is no hard or fast rule as to what comes in and out for what based on the awkward spot we are put in as soon as we start taking cards out that reduce our decks effectiveness. It is a trial and error process where sideboarding for this deck is concerned, all I would say is never reduce any card we play 4 of to less than 4, also remember that because of Faith's Reward we can cut back on some draw. My first suspects to be boarded out would be cards that are only better with a resolved KCI, so Ichor Wellspring and Terrarion fall under this banner. This way I think we would make the most logical sense, as then we are replacing cards that are better with other elements, for cards that are have the potentially to win games 2/3 whilst keeping some part of the deck's consistency.