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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 6:49PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
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how? i thought letal damage it ignores for indestructable? so wouldnt negative toughness still be ignored since that is still considered lethal damage?
Damage does not reduce a creature's toughness (unless the source has Wither or Infect).
Rules Advisor Please autocard: [c ]Disenchant[/c ] = Disenchant  .
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 6:50PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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how? i thought letal damage it ignores for indestructable? so wouldnt negative toughness still be ignored since that is still considered lethal damage?
Damage does not reduce a creature's toughness (unless the source has Wither or Infect).
I believe that question was in response to the post by Enigma256 that referenced Tragic Slip  .
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 7:00PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
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my friend told me that a creature that for example is a 3/3 indestructable for example...he said i could not ping it for 1 damage to make it a 3/2 and then give it a -2/-2 effect to kill it off....he said the ping for 1 damage would be ignored.....but i said how is that when the ping for 1 damage isnt lethal damage....can anybody clarify?
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 7:05PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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my friend told me that a creature that for example is a 3/3 indestructable for example...he said i could not ping it for 1 damage to make it a 2/2 and then give it a -3/-3 effect to kill it off....he said the ping for 1 damage would be ignored.....but i said how is that when the ping for 1 damage isnt lethal damage....can anybody clarify?
First, damage does not reduce toughness. A 3/3 creature with 1 damage is a 3/3 creature with 1 damage on it.
Indestructible does not prevent damage. The creature will still be 3/3 with 1 damage on it. Giving it two more damage will normally destroy it, but Indestructible creatures cannot be destroyed, so it will be a 3/3 creature with 3 damage on it and not go to the graveyard.
If you reduce the creature's toughness to 0 or less, it will go to the graveyard. This is not destruction, so Indestructible does not save it.
This means if you hit a Stuffy Doll  with Shivan Meteor  it will survive, but it you hit it with Sudden Death  it will die.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 7:06PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2011
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ya im sorry i had edited my post but you had already responded before i had a chance to do it
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 10:08PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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can creatures who have indestructable die from combat damage?
yes, if the damage source has wither or infect
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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13 months ago ::
Jun 01, 2012 - 10:46PM
#17
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my friend told me that a creature that for example is a 3/3 indestructable for example...he said i could not ping it for 1 damage to make it a 3/2 and then give it a -2/-2 effect to kill it off....he said the ping for 1 damage would be ignored.....but i said how is that when the ping for 1 damage isnt lethal damage....can anybody clarify?
Toughness is not like hit points or a life meter in video games. A 3/3 is always a 3/3. Damage does not reduce that second number. The creature just gets damage marked on it and that damage amount is compared to its toughness (the max amount of damage it can take before it dies)
Your opponent is correct that that line of play would not kill his creature, but for the wrong reasons.
3/3 indestructible
Ping for 1, it does indeed take the damage, so it now has 1 damage marked on it
Give it a -2/-2 effect
It is now a 1/1 with 1 damage maked on it (normally this would kill a creature)
But it is indestructible, so that 1 damage won't kill it
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13 months ago ::
Jun 02, 2012 - 1:23AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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Is it technically correct to talk about "lethal" damage, outside the context of assigning damage during combat? Does a 3/3 take "lethal" damage from a Lightning Bolt  ? (the SBAs dont ask if "lethal damage" was dealt to anything, do they - just whether a creature has damage marked on it equal to it's toughness) ~ Tim
 Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise  in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch  . YAY COLOR IDENTITY 
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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13 months ago ::
Jun 02, 2012 - 1:53AM
#19
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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Actually, the SBA in question does ask about "lethal damage": 704.5g. If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The phrase "lethal damage" is also used in many other rules in reference to this SBA. And it's used on Ogre Enforcer  .
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13 months ago ::
Jun 02, 2012 - 2:44AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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Actually, the SBA in question does ask about "lethal damage":
704.5g. If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
The phrase "lethal damage" is also used in many other rules in reference to this SBA. And it's used on Ogre Enforcer .
That quote is asking if the creature has a certain amount of damage marked on it, and tells us that if it has, then lethal damage has been dealt to it. It isnt asking if lethal damage was dealt to anything. 
In fact, due to toughness reducers, it might not even have had any damage dealt to it since SBAs were last checked.
Ogre Enforcer is weird. Having to record the source of the damage that is marked on it is rather odd. Normally the game doesnt care about the source past the first round of SBA checks, does it?
(For example: Inferno Titan  equipped with Basilisk Collar  attacks, and it's triggered ability does 1 point of damage to a Knight Exemplar  and 1 point of damage each to a pair of White Knight  s. SBAs are checked and destroy the Exemplar, and then SBAs are checked again but fail to destroy the White Knights, since they no longer care about the fact that the Titan had Deathtouch).
Anyway, it appears I was wrong about how the game uses the term "lethal damage". Thanks for pointing that out. 
Over to RT&T I think...
~ Tim
Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch . YAY COLOR IDENTITY
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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