This article opened my eyes a little . I cant say I'm new to the game ,but I deffinately look at multiplayer different now. I plan on making a three color deck blue,black,green. Was wondering if the forum would give me some ideas on some good cards. I would appreciate any help from anyone with the ideas.
I just want to say thanks for Cultivate. Give me another Wayfarer's Bauble though, so my non-green decks can have access to the good stuff too!
Kerrik1, your post is very vague. What are you trying to do? Without more information, I'd suggest looking at Anavolver, then look at The Mimeoplasm Commander precon, which is in those colors. A deck in this color combination is likely to have green mana ramp into some big stuff, like Simic Sky Swallower, with blue providing card draw and black providing removal.
Finally, now that all the planes are spoiled, I'd like to say that they really missed the mark for me. I like planes that make the cards in my deck the star of the show. Several new planes seem more like sorceries than I like, but the phenomena do function like random, uncounterable sorceries. I would never agree to play a game where warp world could randomly happen. That just land screws someone for no good reason. It is easier to just say 'no' to planechase than to make sure morphic tide isn't a possibility.
It sounds like you just don't like the game being affected by a dice roll. That's no big, but Planechase as a whole probably isn't a product you'd have wanted.
The only card on the list I'd call a problem is Beacon of Immortality . The rest of them are huge effects that flip the game on its head, but they're excellent build-around cards that make for interesting decks and unpredictable games. I don't necessarily want Eye of the Storm played in every game for no reason, but I definitely want to see decks that contain this kind of thing as a win condition. They're also some of the best cards for the proto-Planechase Chaos Deck format.
Primal Surge , particularly, is one I disagree with. To win games on the spot, the deck has to be completely made for it, and at ten mana it's pretty steep. Insurrection wins games from nowhere, goes in any deck with no extra work and costs eight. And it's certainly not the case that Insurrection will kill just a single player; late in a multiplayer game, it's not a rare thing at all to have dozens of power sitting there on the table. It's not always strong, but it takes a lot of working-around to make Primal Surge reliable.
This article opened my eyes a little . I cant say I'm new to the game ,but I deffinately look at multiplayer different now. I plan on making a three color deck blue,black,green. Was wondering if the forum would give me some ideas on some good cards. I would appreciate any help from anyone with the ideas.
Head over to the multiplayer forums here, we're pretty cool.
I found it interesting that the article didn't address, what in my mind, is the chief problem with multiplayer, combo. I've seen groups torn asunder because someone showed up to the table with a combo deck, wiped everyone out out of the blue, and got killed on sight the next 10 games in a row because no one wanted to give him the chance to surprise them again. The first game wasn't fun for most of us because we'd spent however long building up a game state and doing cool things only to have it vanish in a puff of smoke, and the several games were terrible for him.
Unfortunately, most of the good answers to combo in single player (counterspells, discard, etc.) suffer from exactly the sort of problem you mentioned with one for one removal spells. There's additionally the prisoner's dilemma effect of disincentivizing packing such effects because it makes your deck weaker compared to the rest of the group. Instead the best answer to combo is a faster combo.
I'd love to see more faster, resilient, anti-combo permanents for multiplayer to make up for this. For example:
4UU Undead Combo Muncher: Undying While undead combo muncher is in play, counter each non-mana activated or triggered ability if that ability was not the first triggered ability to trigger that turn. Sacrifice undead combo Muncher: End the turn. This ability may not be countered. 2/2
Or something. Most anti-combo cards designed for standard are low in cost but easy to wipe out. It'd be good to see some very potent, higher cost ones.
Finally, now that all the planes are spoiled, I'd like to say that they really missed the mark for me. I like planes that make the cards in my deck the star of the show. Several new planes seem more like sorceries than I like, but the phenomena do function like random, uncounterable sorceries. I would never agree to play a game where warp world could randomly happen. That just land screws someone for no good reason. It is easier to just say 'no' to planechase than to make sure morphic tide isn't a possibility.
It sounds like you just don't like the game being affected by a dice roll. That's no big, but Planechase as a whole probably isn't a product you'd have wanted.
I've played Planechase, and the first Planechase has some planes I like a lot. I like Grixis and Bant because they give those decks a home-field advantage. I like Minamo since it gives people a reason to play cards instead of turtle up. Otaria highlights a spell-based deck compared to the usual creature helpers. I don't like Sanctum of Serra and things like it. They cast large spells at random moments. This new edition of Planechase feels more like Sanctum of Serra type things than I like. I also dislike cliffside market from the original edition. That is like an unglued plane. I don't care for those either.
Overall, planechase is an interesting idea. It gives people that don't have much to do something to do and stay engaged in the game. Its biggest problem is finding a decent way to integrate them into game play. Requiring everyone to have their own cards is a burden. The first time I ever saw Planechase, Mark Globus was gunslinging with it at PT Austin. That should have been a clue that the shared deck concept was going to be a common way to play it. They have tried coming up w/ better ways to use one shared deck, but it takes up time. If there were suggested lists of shared deck cards that accomplish certain goals, that would be cool. That would be subjective and difficult to test and balance though.
For a positive note about multiplayer card designs, in the spirit of Minamo, I like idea behind Harvester of Souls a lot. I can cast it after playing attackers so when wrath hits, I am compensated for it. With Twilight's Call and friends, I can even get advantages from it. So far, Harvester is bulk so I don't know if it hasn't caught on or is too much work compared to Griselbrand for most people to use.
I found it interesting that the article didn't address, what in my mind, is the chief problem with multiplayer, combo. I've seen groups torn asunder because someone showed up to the table with a combo deck, wiped everyone out out of the blue, and got killed on sight the next 10 games in a row because no one wanted to give him the chance to surprise them again. The first game wasn't fun for most of us because we'd spent however long building up a game state and doing cool things only to have it vanish in a puff of smoke, and the several games were terrible for him.
People have to be given expectations ahead of time. Magic is completely broken. The trick is to agree on a version of the game that isn't broken but all participants want to play. There isn't anything that can be done at this point to stop all the types of combo decks that exist now.
On that note, does WOTC care when it makes a new, obvious 2 card combo? Mikeaus, the Unhallowed combos with triskelion to win the game. What expectations do you have of people's ability to enjoy Mikeaus if an artifact makes that combo with it? Other players have to play like it could happen, and even if they know it can't, Mikaeus has a stigma attached to it based on how easy it is to combo out with it.
For another example, sanguin bond sells for quite a bit on the secondary market so I assume lots of people really like that card. Exquisite blood is an obvious combo, and in the same color. Does that combo make exquisite blood less fun and also make sanguin bond less fun? If so, is it worth it to print cards that are cool on their own when it causes this to happen? Does WOTC even care? I get the impression that as long as it isn't standard legal, it is on the rest of us to make our Magic playing experience not broken.
Unfortunately, most of the good answers to combo in single player (counterspells, discard, etc.) suffer from exactly the sort of problem you mentioned with one for one removal spells. There's additionally the prisoner's dilemma effect of disincentivizing packing such effects because it makes your deck weaker compared to the rest of the group. Instead the best answer to combo is a faster combo.
Ah yes. That should have been on my wishlist.
5) Some tools to make counters more playable. Lullmage Mentor is nice, but something that's just a decent multiplayer counter would be preferable. I don't necessarily want more decks built around counters; I want to see a situation where any given game might see a couple of big plays countered. This, I think, ties in with 'allow more mileage from smaller effects'. Maybe the solution is added versatility again? Counters with secondary effects are nice. I don't think Counterspell is really playable, but Familiar's Ruse can fit into decks because it has a broadly-applicable additional cost that can help a deck's main strategy, and Hydromorph Gull , while not a strong card, is an option for a Bird or Elemental deck. It's difficult with counters, because adding versatility and pumping the cost doesn't solve anything. Nobody wants to play expensive counters.
I'd love to see for once an UR creature that is not a donkie, a minotaur, weird (ravnica), goblin-merfolk or a stream hopper...
Good thing there's Niv- Mizzet out there to defend the Blue-Red wizardry style... I hoped that the UWR/URG commander decks will feature some nice, new UR generals, or atleast something that fits the UR flavor... Sure Nin is awesome, but now we see another Minotaur for the upcoming set... why?
Make it an awesome elemental, but not a snake-y thing like Shrewd Hatchling, somethin made of Fire and Frost or a cool wizard, another dragon-wizard maybe, why not? You are doing a great job balancing the game if you ask me, but I think that there should be more of the "Core Flavor". I am defending UR since it is, in my opinion, the hardest of two-colour combinations to design. The others are straightforward - UB is something secret, mystical and stuff... But UR, excluding Ravnica has been a failiure if you ask me flavorwise.
I think it's obvious that this game isn't for me any more.
I like playing, not winning. But it seems I'm in the minority here. Most players seem to love powerful cards, and want as much power as possible. The problem is that power is relative. In limited for example, many cards that are weak in standard are much more powerful, because more powerful options simply aren't available. In order for a card to be powerful, there has to be many more weak cards to set the baseline for what is "just okay". My ideal environment is one where all the cards are fair, so that there are tons of options for building a deck that has a reasonable chance of winning. I'd like to be able to use my favorite cards. As long as cards like Wurmcoil Engine exist that outclass most of the commons and uncommons, I'm forced to either spend more money to bring my deck up to the same level, or just plain lose unless I drew my removal spell. I don't want to play with it either, because I want to have to struggle against my opponent to win, not just win because I have the better deck. A victory is hollow when it's the Engine, not me, that takes it.
But people seem to think that rares should be powerful, that you should open a booster pack to find one awesome rare and 14 pieces of trash rather than a meh rare and 14 interesting options. If most players want as much power as possible, then Wizards will continue to cater to them by printing sets full of chaff in the commons and uncommons. That's fine, but it's not what I want.
Second, while creature combat is fun and all, what I really like is the card interactions. I love playing my weak dredge deck because dregde totally changes the way I draw cards. I love clever plays like cytoshapeing my blocker into another player's False Prophet and wiping the board, or using Artifcial Evolution on my opponent's Elvish Champion to make it pump my saprolings instead. But the cards are becoming more bland. Players want a big splashy game full of 10 9/9 lifelinking deathtouchers rather than a game of clever decks and clever plays and unexpected twists.
Finally, in a related note in a Wizards has emphasized monetary advantage recently, and I am certain that they will do so more and more in the future. People talk a lot about card advantage and tempo advantage, but monetary advantage has the biggest impact on games. Cards cost money, so the more money you spend, the more options there are for your deck, and the more powerful your deck is. To improve your deck you need to buy cards, and the more powerful cards are in higher demand, which raises their price, which means that, in general the player who spent more money on their deck is more likely to win the game.
Wizards makes the problem much, much worse by making rare and mythic rare cards more powerful. If you were to blindly open packs hoping for a particular rare, you'd have to open a lot more packs before you found one than if you were looking for a given common, and, since each pack costs $4, the price of a rare card bought by blindly opening packs (or boxes, or drafting) is much higher than the price of a common. For example, it costs you, on average, $242 to get an Angel of Glory's Rise. To get a Voice of the Provinces only costs an average of $40. If your human deck needs a big white flier, you can either pay an extra $200 or so for a power upgrade, or you can accept that you'll lose more games to monetary disadvantage. (odds of a particular rare appearing per pack = 1/53 x 7/8. [53 rares in the set and 1/8 chance of getting a mythic rare instead]. Expected number of packs = 1/probability = 60.57 packs. At $4 per pack, $242. Odds of a particular common = 1/101 Expected number of commons bought = 101. 101/10 commons per pack x 4$ per pack = $40).
Of course, many people buy singles to avoid this problem. On tcgplayer.com, you can buy Angel of Glory's Rise for .25 and Voice of the Provinces for about .02, both much, much better deals. The Glory's Rise still costs 12.5 times more money though, because ultimately the seller either had to open many more packs to get the Glory's Rise, or bought it from someone who did the same. Except for theme deck cards, all cards ultimately come from someone blindly opening booster packs. You can see this effect even clearer by comparing the price of Delver of Secrets and Snapcatser Mage. Both cards are in very high demand and have the same level of demand, both being four-ofs in the top Standard and Legacy deck. Yet Devler is 15 cents while Snapcatser is $20, because the Snapcatser is in much smaller supply. The price of powerful rares is always much higher than the price of powerful commons, and by making rares more powerful, Wizards causes the player who spent more money to have an advantage in winning. Though we don't like to admit it, deck quality, more than luck or skill, plays the biggest role in determining who wins. Using some of my decks, I can win every game; using others, winning is an uphill battle. Powerful cards wouldn't be in nearly as high demand if they gave only a small advantage. Who wants to spend $20 when your skill is going to give you the win either way!
Overpowered cards used to be mistakes, so they showed up at all rarieties. Cards like Skullclamp, Cranial Plating, the artifact lands, Astral Slide, Wild Mongrel, Roar of the Wurm, Psychatog, Fires of Yavimaya all were common or uncommon, so everyone had access to them for cheap. This did a lot to mitgate the problem. If you were on a budget, you'd have to forego the Wrath of Gods, painlands, Upheavals, and Arcbound Ravagers, but you could still build a deck close to tournament power level for less than $30. Now though, development has figured out how to control power level and so they intentionally make the cards that take over games like Luminarch Ascension, the titans, Wolfir Silverheart, and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite rare. This, of course, makes them tremendous profits. With greed as a powerful motivator, I fully expect Wizards to more and more sacrifice fair gameplay for the sake of profit.
But the good news is that there are plenty of old cards I can get, so I can still make my decks the way I want them to be as the game drifts further and further away from what I want to play.
