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Switch to Forum Live View Un Cards: Who Do I Talk to About Getting an Uncard Oracle Typo Fixed?
1 year ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 2:31PM #31
adeyke
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Date Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 9,452
If people are confused by the old wording, I think that's a legitimate concern.  A newer player might not have any idea what an "Interrupt" even is and would be seriously thrown off by Unglued's pre-Sixth wording.

However, if the question is something like "How does this card actually work in the context of Magic?", the answer is often "It doesn't."  These cards don't function within the rules and often intentionally violate them.  Goblin Bookie , for example, wants you to be able to just activate its ability any time you flip a coin or roll a die, before the consequence of that flip/roll happens.  The concept is very easy to explain, but the timing rules of Magic don't and can't allow that.

Even when the cards are templated properly, they often don't mean the same thing that template would mean in real Magic.  Goblin S.W.A.T. Team , for example, wants its controller to say "Goblin S.W.A.T. Team" and then give the creature a +1/+1 counter within five seconds of that announcement, unless the opponent swats the table.  In real Magic, however, the player needs to make a real announcement that they're activating the ability, and the opponent then gets priority to respond to it.  It's only after they choose to let it resolves that the five second timer starts.

Similarly, Gotcha wants there to be an immediate gotcha moment when the player takes that wrong action (e.g. "Blaze for 3--" " Gotcha !").  What it actually means is that the Gotcha ability will trigger each time that action takes place, and the next time a player would get priority, the triggered ability will go on the stack (if a player controls more than one, they then have to make a choice about the ordering).  Then, when the ability resolves, the player gets the choice to say "Gotcha" or not.

Planechase and Archenemy are casual variants, but they still try to be serious.  The cards use proper templating and the variants come with actual rules to define their interactions.  I don't think we've yet seen errata for those cards, but it would make sense for them to get them when needed (I'm still hoping Bant will get changed from "as long as" to the proper "for as long as").

Un- isn't like that.  It's just silly.  If you put an Un- card in your deck just because you think its power level is good and that it'll help you win, you're doing it wrong.  Ditto if you find yourself looking an Un- card up in Gatherer in the middle of a game because the exact functionality could determine the winner.  The point is to laugh at the silly cards, enjoy doing things that wouldn't happen in a serious Magic game, make your opponent do ridiculous things, etc.  If you can't figure out what Bureaucracy is trying to do, that's precisely why they worded it in legalese; it's part of the experience.

The Oracle text of a card is the text it should have and the text it would have if it were reprinted now.  The latest Animate Dead shows that they take this seriously, even if the result is hideous.  If giving a joke card a certain text would end up ruining its joke, that means that's not an option for the Oracle text.

Normally, it'd be a great idea to use the rulings section to clarify any confusion that could arise from the Oracle text.  However, Un- cards shouldn't have rulings.  There's a certain legitimacy given to Gatherer rulings.  People see those and expect to be able to get some understanding of the underlying rules and to be able to make connections with other rules.  That is, they expect the rulings to say how a card actually works, not how it would work if it did work (even though it actually doesn't).  If that section was used, it would need to be renamed on Un- cards to something less official-sounding, like "Explanation".

(I also really don't like being put in the position of needing to defend Un- cards in any way.  I really don't like them in concept or in practice, and I'd much prefer if they didn't exist at all.  If it actually were possible to get rid of the Un-ness and make them just another part of Magic, in the same way as Portal, I'd love that, but it's simply not possible.  They don't fit, and trying to force a fit would make them lose whatever value they have.)
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1 year ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 3:13PM #32
TranscientMaster
Date Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 5,138

May 28, 2012 -- 2:31PM, adeyke wrote:

-snip-



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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 6:18AM #33
WotC_MattT
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Date Joined: Aug 9, 2007
Posts: 537
It's a shame I didn't get to this thread sooner but I've been out of town. I could've saved you guys some work. This project is on my radar, but in addition to its admittedly low importance, there are some database challenges to making it happen. Nothing major, but Un sets having no Oracle text is an obstacle.

So, as I silently annex Un-landia, here are the priorities:

1. No joke left behind. If an update would kill a joke, we find another way.
2. Make new jokes as opportunities present themselves.
3. Have the cards make more sense to the modern Magic player.

I'm actually about 40% through the cards, chipping away in my spare time. (See, spare time. New jokes!) Not sure when it'll happen, but not overly soon. Waiting until April might be worth it, even if it's done much sooner. What do you guys think?
Magic: The Gathering Rules Manager
Wizards of the Coast

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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 6:21AM #34
Gemstone386
Date Joined: Aug 9, 2010
Posts: 1,056
I think you are my favorite people ever!
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 Xweetoks, MTG, and ponies. Life is good.
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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 7:37AM #35
zammm
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2003
Posts: 27,371

May 29, 2012 -- 6:18AM, WotC_MattT wrote:

Waiting until April might be worth it, even if it's done much sooner. What do you guys think?


Worth it. 100%.

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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 7:56AM #36
DocDoom
Date Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 2,021
Great!

I don't understand why Adeyke would rather prefer that they do not exist however - what has Hairy Ass done to you?
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 11:19AM #37
TranscientMaster
Date Joined: May 15, 2010
Posts: 5,138

May 29, 2012 -- 6:18AM, WotC_MattT wrote:

2. Make new jokes as opportunities present themselves.


This is possibly the best idea ever.

Waiting until April might be worth it, even if it's done much sooner. What do you guys think?


This is a close second.

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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 11:48AM #38
WotC_dlaugel
Date Joined: May 16, 2002
Posts: 360
I'm fully on board with Matt Tabak's Un-set project. I just want to clarify a few details.

(1) Matt's role on the project is editor, not rules manager, and he's using a light touch. Cards that didn't work under the Magic rules before will continue to not work under the Magic rules. Fun will be preserved.

(2) Part of the motivation behind the project is to clean up how Gatherer searches interact with Un cards. Right now, if you search for green creatures with rules text contains the words "comes," "into," and "play," you get a list of results that contains Monkey Monkey Monkey but neither Elvish Impersonators (it has type "summon") nor the black-bordered card you were probably trying to search for. That's a pretty bizarre result.

(3) Nothing my team is doing will fix the display errors in Gatherer mentioned earlier in this thread. The data is correct on our side of things. DailyMTG.com editor-in-chief Trick Jarrett has been recently named the product owner for Gatherer. If anyone has feedback about how Gatherer can be improved, I suggest sending it his way. One way to contact him is through his Twitter account @TrickMTG.
Del Laugel
Senior editor, Magic TCG
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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 12:28PM #39
Bowshewicz
Date Joined: Apr 12, 2012
Posts: 1,742
I like this idea. Magic is a complex game, and arguments about the rules are inevitable. The fact that these cards don't actually have real resolutions pokes fun at this, and to me it's the best part of the joke.

In Un-land, you can win games by talking your opponent into seeing the rules your way, or just by having the most people on your side. "How does Goblin S.W.A.T. Team's ability interact with the stack?" is a question that has no answer, and that's a part of Unhinged that I'd rather not lose.
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1 year ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 1:10PM #40
RootBreaker
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Date Joined: Oct 13, 2002
Posts: 4,801

May 27, 2012 -- 9:23PM, Skibo_the_first wrote:

Welll here's my suggested for an updated oracle text for Unglued. Unhinge in awhile.



B.F.M. (Big Furry Monster)



Creature — {Beast}


99/99


(If both halves of B.F.M. are in your hand, you may teat them as one card. If both halves of B.F.M. are on the stack or on the battlefield treat them as one card. Otherwise treat B.F.M. as blank black cards.)


B.F.M. can't be blocked except by three or more creatures.


 


I don't like that implementation. I used to victimize BFM back, and living death and Living End and whatnot should work with it IMO.

All Generalizations are Bad
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