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Switch to Forum Live View 05/25/2012 LD: "Rolling Planes"
13 months ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 12:57PM #11
infamado
Date Joined: Oct 31, 2011
Posts: 404
In my group, the rule is four or more players. Nobody wants to play with less.

What I enjoy most about multiplayer is the (typically) slow, high-power environment. I can create decks whose strategy is to build up some complicated engine or deep box of tricks. When that kind of challenge is replaced with 'play Emrakul , win', it loses a whole lot of its charm. Not that I begrudge other players using those cards (although Emrakul is perhaps a shade too strong), but they fall flat for me. I'm also not a fan of 'just make it hit everyone'. Putting four copies of Exsanguinate into every deck with Swamps isn't creative or interesting, but is almost always correct. I appreciate the effort being put into multiplayer design, and a lot of it is an improvement, but I feel like some of these solve-everything-in-one-card cards stifle deckbuilding.

Of course I'm sure Timmy enjoys getting to eight mana and playing Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger , but it seems like R&D are under the impression that multiplayer is for Timmy and nobody else. Multiplayer is the format that allows creative decks the chance to perform complex tricks; it's a haven for Johnnies. I can only speak for my group, but not one of us plays these multiplayer bombs. Everyone already knows Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur will win the game, so what's the point in actually playing it? Again, I can only speak for myself and my group, but we favour high-powered but open-ended effects like Deadeye Navigator (see, it's not all criticism of modern design) over dreary monsters like Eldrazi. Recent sets have provided both, and that's good, but the proportions seem to be pretty lopsided.

I guess one issue may be that R&D are primarily Spikes. Multiplayer doesn't attract a large proportion of Spikes; if you're in a four-player game, you can't afford to care too much about winning. In multiplayer, everyone wants their deck to do interesting things, and then hopefully win at the end of it. A lot of the multiplayer-focused cards that are being printed are just expensive bombs, which really isn't that exciting. There seems to be a trend of printing powerful, interesting combo enablers, then sticking them to creatures powerful enough to count as win conditions by themselves. All of the Praetors (bar maybe Urabrask the Hidden ) are less interesting by virtue of being large creatures rather than enchantments. I find a game produces a more interesting narrative when the decks' dominance play isn't also their big finisher.
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13 months ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 2:44PM #12
fractal
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 2,225

May 25, 2012 -- 12:57PM, infamado wrote:

In my group, the rule is four or more players. Nobody wants to play with less.


Duels are rare in my group as well, although they and three-player games do occasionally happen, before the rest of the players show up.  However, they lack the inherent balancing of multiplayer, so you either have to carefully select evenly-matched decks, or else be prepared for a lot less fun.

What I enjoy most about multiplayer is the (typically) slow, high-power environment. I can create decks whose strategy is to build up some complicated engine or deep box of tricks. When that kind of challenge is replaced with 'play Emrakul , win', it loses a whole lot of its charm. Not that I begrudge other players using those cards (although Emrakul is perhaps a shade too strong), but they fall flat for me. I'm also not a fan of 'just make it hit everyone'. Putting four copies of Exsanguinate into every deck with Swamps isn't creative or interesting, but is almost always correct. I appreciate the effort being put into multiplayer design, and a lot of it is an improvement, but I feel like some of these solve-everything-in-one-card cards stifle deckbuilding.


Yeah, Wizards has realized that they can design for multiplayer, and they're starting to do so.  Unfortunately, they don't really have a good handle on how to balance it yet, and the development team is selected for tournament experience, not casual.  They need to remember that the most powerful cards are not necessarily the most fun; this is even more true for multiplayer than for duels.


To use an analogy, I'm concerned that we may be entering the Urza's Saga stage of multiplayer design.

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!

My Decks Show
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:

Tournament Decks (4) Show
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block)
Sunforger / Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard)
Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard)
Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)

Casual Multiplayer Decks (50) Show
Angel Resurrection
Casual Soul Sisters
Sindbad 's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes
Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback
Morph (No Instants or Sorceries)
Cabal Coffers Control
Zombie Aggro
Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon / War Elemental
Flashfires / Boil / Ruination - Boom!
Call of the Wild
Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover , Sun Titan , and Hivestone Slivers
Rebels
Cairn Wanderer Knights
Only Gold and Spells
Captain Sisay Toolbox
Spellweaver Helix Combo
Merfolk Wizards
Izzet Guildmage / The Unspeakable Arcane Combo
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards
Creatureless Wild Research / Reins of Power Madness
Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension
Anarchist Living Death
Anvil of Bogardan Madness
Shamen with Goblin Game / Wound Reflection Combo
Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle / Clear the Land with 40+ Lands
Doubling Season Thallid s
Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens
Elf Archer Druids
Equilibrium / Aluren Combo
Experiment Kraj Combo
Reap Combo
False Cure / Kavu Predator Combo
Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge
Elf Warriors
Eight-Post
Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread
Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures
Tamanoa / Kavu Predator / Collapsing Borders
Esper Aggro
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor
Theft and Control
Unearth Aggro
Soul's Fire Vampires
Devour Tokens
Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield
Treefolk
Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif
Slivers
Dragon Arch Fun

I'm probably forgetting a few...

EDH Decks (4) Show
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13 months ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 9:52PM #13
lewis440lewis
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2011
Posts: 97

May 24, 2012 -- 10:29PM, fractal wrote:

Hey! I feel like you stole my icon! :P

On the actual topic of the article, 60-card multiplayer is my preferred constructed format, so I feel that I am definitely in the target audience Zac is talking about . . .


In multiplayer, some people play decks that are better than others.  That's normal and expected; however, it's not good if those people reliably triumph.  Fortunately, there's a built-in balancing factor: the weaker players can gang up on the strong.  The additional cards, land drops, and life points available to a temporary alliance can overcome many disparities in deck quality, and ensure that everyone has a chance to win.



I feel like the target audience, too, though more because Zac said something about, "Or do you just play whatever?" I'll play anything I can, and my only concern with Planechase is not being able to find other people who think it's interesting just because it's different. I wasn't around for the first one, so I don't know how easy it is to talk EDH groups into trying it for a day.
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13 months ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 11:15PM #14
metalevolence
Date Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 3,187
I like the part when he implied Edric isn't a borderline-broken commander
http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/
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13 months ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 12:44AM #15
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,288

May 25, 2012 -- 11:15PM, metalevolence wrote:

I like the part when he implied Edric isn't a borderline-broken commander




In multiplayer?

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13 months ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 8:52AM #16
Dakkon_BlackBlade_LG
Date Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Posts: 12
I don't care what you have to do. Insert random Foils in Planechases and Commander product.  No, It can not be done is not a good Answer.  Do it.
 
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