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still trying to understand gloom surgeons role here... is it just because of the strangleroot geists that he's in there?

cemetary reaper 's would have been better to up your zombie's and to create more chump blockers...

May 23, 2012 -- 12:26AM, amett556 wrote:

still trying to understand gloom surgeons role here....

May 22, 2012 -- 10:51PM, Zindaras wrote:

I would say Gloom Surgeon would also get in against Wurmcoil Engines. After all, a single Surgeon deals very efficiently with a single Engine, forcing the opponent to overextend and letting Sever the Bloodline have value.

Quite sick, sir, quite sick. It's true any pure aggro deck needs a way to deal with WEngine . But besides that, such a solid aggro card.

How does the gloom surgeon deal with the Wurmcoil Engine. From what I see outside of being able to block it (which would make you exile 6 cards from your deck each turn it attacks. After a turn or two I would see it as a deficit more than a benefit. Since it has no way of actually taking the wurmcoil engine out of play and is not themed with the deck very well I'd still say another creature, even Onyx Mage or the humble Typhoid Rats

Using the prices at bidwicket.com, assuming $5 shipping and free basic lands:

Estimated total cost: 72.55
2 Bloodline Keeper: 2 @ 2.75; total 5.5
4 Diregraf Ghoul: 4 @ 0.25; total 1.0
4 Sever the Bloodline: 4 @ 0.25; total 1.0
3 Black Cat: 3 @ 0.02; total 0.06
4 Geralf's Messenger: 4 @ 4.99; total 19.96
3 Tragic Slip: 3 @ 0.1; total 0.3
4 Gravecrawler: 4 @ 4.99; total 19.96
4 Blood Artist: 4 @ 0.06; total 0.24
4 Gloom Surgeon: 4 @ 0.15; total 0.6
2 Entomber Exarch: 2 @ 0.03; total 0.06
4 Birthing Pod: 4 @ 2.65; total 10.6
1 Fume Spitter: 1 @ 0.02; total 0.02
1 Perilous Myr: 1 @ 0.04; total 0.04
1 Precursor Golem: 1 @ 0.44; total 0.44
1 Skinrender: 1 @ 0.08; total 0.08
2 Nihil Spellbomb: 2 @ 0.08; total 0.16
1 Pierce Strider: 1 @ 0.03; total 0.03
2 Go for the Throat: 2 @ 1.19; total 2.38
4 Distress: 4 @ 0.03; total 0.12

The fact that it doesn't trade is kinda the point. This deck wants to trade creatures so that with gravecrawler and blood artist out you'll eventually see a creature advantage all while whittling their life away and getting larger yourself.

With wurmcoil engine if it plays competely(The engine and the two subcreatures) you'll still have a 3 life advantage with 1 blood artist in play(+9 opponents life with lifelink, -6 opponents life due to blood artist, and +6 life to yourself). Creature advantage should be offset due to gravecrawler. 

On the otherhand for 2 turns with the gloom surgeon your exiling 12 cards from your library.  With so many 1 ofs in this deck it'd be mighty risky. lets look at it this way with you drawing first:
t3 pod
t4 podded a creature
t5 podded a creature
t6 This turn they hardcast an engine so you pod a surgeon
t7 Attack with engine

At this point you're down to 43 cards with the ability to lose 8 more each turn from your library(6 from surgeon, draw 1, pod another). That's a little more than 5 turns there. And while yes you should have an answer to that creature. There's no gaurantee that the answer won't be exiled.

Now if you pod for say an Onyx Mage, it can almost gaurantee the creature's death and the subsequent creatures it creates (not blocking with mage at first). Btw any removal done to onyx mage can also be done to surgeon.

May 23, 2012 -- 12:26AM, amett556 wrote:

still trying to understand gloom surgeons role here... is it just because of the strangleroot geists that he's in there?

May 23, 2012 -- 3:46AM, amett556 wrote:

How does the gloom surgeon deal with the Wurmcoil Engine. From what I see outside of being able to block it (which would make you exile 6 cards from your deck each turn it attacks. After a turn or two I would see it as a deficit more than a benefit.

May 23, 2012 -- 4:08AM, Senyuno wrote:

Yes, but mostly it is solid. It is a 2/1 that can't be traded with. Period. And yes, 8 turns against WEngine is more than enough time to win the game.

Gloom Surgeon's strength against Wurmcoil Engine is the line "if combat damage would be dealt... prevent that damage...". This allows you to race the wurmcoils since as no damage was dealt, the opponent didn't gain any life. As the deck is essentially an aggro-combo deck, the Surgeon gives you a little extra wiggle room to not auto-lose when they play the wurm. Your deck can get ahead on life through it's aggressive start and when the wurm comes down finish with the combo win. Since you don't have to attack to win you don't care if a wurm stays back and defends and if it attacks you trade cards on the top of your deck for the extra turns to finish them off.

It is true that the longer you rely on the Surgeon to keep you in the game, the more likely it is you'll deck yourself but the aim here is not to be blocking for too long. 6 cards a turn probably translates to another 5 or 6 turns. You should be able to win from there.

Against aggro the fact that Gloom Surgeon can't be removed through combat makes him a very good road block against 3+ toughness dorks and lets you play the war of attrition vs. strangleroot geists and other 2-toughness guys as well. Then, as with the Wurmcoil engine scenario above, you can race the aggro deck, once again trading cards of the top for extra turns to combo out

Finally, Gloom Surgeon is still a 2-power attacker for 2 mana making him efficient enough against Control decks.

Hope that helps!