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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 8:23AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2012
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As long as we're dealing with replacement effects, suppose there were a reversed Leyline of the Void that said "Whenever a card would be exiled, put it into its owner's graveyard instead." How would that interact with flickering? Similarly, how does the replacement effect that moves a commander to the Command Zone interact with flickering?
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 8:34AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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since the Commander replacement effect is optional Flickering a Commander works just as any other permanent, if the owner of the Commander chooses.
or he can break the Flickering by putting it in his Command zone
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 9:58AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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@ Adeyke: I maintain you are wrong: See the third ruling on Dreams of the Dead  . The "instead of putting it anywhere else" part matters.
Dreams has almost exactly the same wording as Unearth (and Flashback); it is only natural it behaves the same.
This example brings nothing new to the discussion.
While a lot of replacement effects do just say "If [some event would happen], [some other event happens] instead" (in which cases you do just have to look for the [some event would happen] part), there are other cases where the part after the comma places further conditions on whether the replacement effect applies or not.
Just try & provide ONE example.
(and it must not be more of the same: Dreams of the Dead IS NOT a different example; it is the same)
For example, if you control a Library of Leng  and your opponent controls Leyline of the Void  , you get to choose to either put the card in exile or on top of your library. If you apply Leyline of the Void first, the card is no longer going to your graveyard, so Library of Leng no longer applies, even though you're still discarding a card.
In this case, applying one replacement effect has disqualified the other.
That does not happen with Unearth/Flicker: both effects apply.
(and applying anyone before the other changes nothing)
But 2got4U has a point: it doesn't matter since the net result is the same...
...but then, there may be some corner-case where it would matter!
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 11:09AM
#14
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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I'm fully aware that Dreams of the Dead works the same way as unearth. That's why I brought it up. If you'd actually bothered to read the ruling like I told you to, you'd see that it supports my position: the replacement effect doesn't apply if the creature is already going to exile. Also, you failed to notice that I already gave an example (that's what the "for example" means): Library of Leng . The replacement effect only applies if the card would go to your graveyard, but that condition is on the right side of the comma. Quarum Trench Gnomes  is another good example. If you use it on a Tundra  and the player then taps the land for  , the replacement effect doesn't apply: even though the part on the left side of the comma ("target Plains is tapped for mana") happened, the part on the right side of the comma placed a further restriction on it ("white mana"), which wasn't met. In the same way, if you use a flicker effect on an unearthed creature, the part on the left side of the comma ("it would leave the battlefield") happened, the part on the right side of the comma placed a further restriction on it ("anywhere else"), which wasn't met.
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 7:55PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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If you'd actually bothered to read the ruling like I told you to
This kind of attitude is not fit for this Forum.
I have exposed my arguments in a polite and rational manner. I believe I can expect others to do the same.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 7:55PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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Also, you failed to notice that I already gave an example (that's what the "for example" means): Library of Leng .
Once again, this «example» is non valid.
The LibLeng/LeylineVoid situation involves TWO competing replacement effects.
The first one applied may invalidate the second.
The Unearth/Flicker situation has ONE replacement effect; it is extremely different.
Thus, your «example» DOES NOT APPLY to the situation at hand: it is irrelevant.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 7:55PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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Quarum Trench Gnomes is another good example. If you use it on a Tundra and the player then taps the land for , the replacement effect doesn't apply: even though the part on the left side of the comma ("target Plains is tapped for mana") happened, the part on the right side of the comma placed a further restriction on it ("white mana"), which wasn't met.
Now THAT is a good example. I'll admit you got a point here.
Guess you were right after all (notwithstanding attitude).
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago ::
May 16, 2012 - 8:03PM
#18
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- UnCon Prizewinner 2008
- …mmm
Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2008
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I would like to clarify that, through all of this mucking and arguing, Extractor Demon  does still end up permanently on the battlefield. The current argument is only semantics. (Just for anyone who happens to pass through this thread and gets confused.)
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞
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I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
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