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1 year ago ::
May 14, 2012 - 12:45PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2006
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704.4. Unlike triggered abilities, state-based actions pay no attention to what happens during the resolution of a spell or ability
However:
704.5b. If a player attempted to draw a card from a library with no cards in it since the last time state-based actions were checked, he or she loses the game.
704.5h. If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and it's been dealt damage by a source with deathtouch since the last time state-based actions were checked, that creature is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
So, do they pay attention or do they do not?
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest 
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1 year ago ::
May 14, 2012 - 1:12PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2002
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You listed 704.5b twice.
Yeah, it seems like 704.4 should be worded differently or with exceptions.
All Generalizations are Bad
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1 year ago ::
May 14, 2012 - 6:12PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2006
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You listed 704.5b twice.
Yeah, it seems like 704.4 should be worded differently or with exceptions.
I have no Idea what you are talking about....
Thanks, I edited my post.
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 3:49AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2003
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Good find. I agree, the exceptions need to be listed, as it makes no sense at present.
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 6:35AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2008
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It only makes no sense if you assume that SBA's must be "paying attention" during the resolution of spells and abilities in order to determine if their conditionals are true later on when they are actually checked. I see no reason to make this assumption. If effects that didn't even exist can "pay attention" to changes in the game state after the fact (see Children of Korlis  , Final Punishment  , Second Sunrise  etc.), then certainly SBA's can as well.
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 8:04AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2003
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To make it clearer, I would forget the comparison with triggered abilities and go with something like this:
704.4. State-based actions do not do anything during the resolution of a spell or ability.
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 9:51AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2007
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Is it really an issue? The SBA could just ask the player if it wasn't paying attention.
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 10:59AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2009
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To expand on what MadCow21 was saying, they don't need to. SBA's are a series of Boolean interrogations of the game state: most of them ask whether something is true of the game state right now and some of them ask whether something has become true of the game state since the last time they were run; but the game state is perfectly capable of returning correct answers to all of the questions SBA's ask. As for robvalue's proposed change, one potential problem I see is that SBA have now become enshrined triggered abilities: they'll notice things that are happening during resolution but wait to run after resolution has finished; this would result in, for example, Urge to Feed  working very differently than it does now. Is it really an issue? The SBA could just ask the player if it wasn't paying attention.
What's to stop a player who was milled out by Stroke of Genius  from telling the SBA's "No, I didn't draw a card"?
Rules Advisor as of 03/01/2013 Zammm = Batman "Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 11:28AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2007
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Game state / game history / players' knowledge thereof / player, whatever. After all, it's the players who play the game, not the rules or the game state.
The point was just that SBA don't need to pay attention. Once they're checked, they can ask. Just like you described in the first paragraph.
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1 year ago ::
May 15, 2012 - 11:31AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2003
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If that's the case, what is the point of the rule at all? Just delete it, since it's apparrently just a misleading comment with no purpose.
With my proposed changes, I didn't say that they "trigger" at all, I didn't say they notice and remember. I just say they don't apply, aren't checked, ie don't do anything. It wouldn't change the functionality. If a creature's toughness drops to zero during resolution, it still doesn't care unless it stays that way.
Surely the point of this rule is to show you that no action is taken during resolutions of spells and abilities. What else is the point of it? I see no purpose in a weird comparison to triggered abilities when there's no reason to think a connection applies anyway between them. I don't see why you need a rule telling you they don't behave like triggered abilities.
If the point of the rules is to show you situations don't "trigger" an SBA during resolution, then that's pretty misleading too since the two exceptions are kind of triggered.
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