|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 3:54AM
#71
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
|
Dig the build, Shredder. What's your sideboard lookin' like? I feel the statement about the snapcaster mages, but to be real, I still think it would be a good sideboard card for this deck along with a fourth mana leak. Dissipate is too slow against aggro in my opionion. What's your matches against Delver, RG aggro, and Wolf-Run like pre-sideboard?
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:06AM
#72
|
|
|
Lands: 4 - Seachrome Coast  4 - Glacial Fortress  7 - Island  7 - Plains  4 - Ghost Quarter  26 Lands Creatures: 0 Creatures Other Spells: 4 - Mana Leak  2 - Dissipate  4 - Think Twice  3 - Ponder  3 - Pristine Talisman  3 - Righteous Blow  3 - Oblivion Ring  2 - Day of Judgment  1 - Terminus  2 - Gideon Jura  1 - Elspeth Tirel  2 - Tamiyo, the Moon Sage  2 - White Sun's Zenith  2 - Blue Sun's Zenith  34 Other Spells Sideboard: 2 - Phantasmal Image  2 - Negate  1 - Dissipate 3 - Timely Reinforcements  2 - Revoke Existence  1 - Terminus 1 - Righteous Blow 2 - Celestial Purge  1 - Karn Liberated  15 Cards in Sideboard my take on UW control. its weird, i have esper built and it has a lot of power cards and more options what with black's removal and stuff as well as things like sorin, but i'm finding this deck to just... work. if you can survive until the late game, you probably just win. i'm sure one of the WSZ could be entreat, but i don't feel like paying $15 right now for them and WSZ is usally just fine (being an instant is really good, fyi). blue sun's zenith is nice for sure. it just puts games out of reach. pristine talisman is a card i generally think should be crap, but for wahtever reason, it just works well in the deck. the extra mana with all these big spells makes a significant difference, and the life game is really nice. the idea is that i beat most any creature based deck, but WRR is still a pain in the ass. god i hate prime tits. titan rotation can't come soon enough.
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think. 
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 8:14AM
#73
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2006
|
Went 3-1 tonight at fnm with the following list losing to Titan Ramp.dec in the finals 2-0 nice Thrun & Devil's Play if you're listening bro.¯\_(ツ)_/¯...fml Land 3 x Ghost Quarter 1 x Seraph Sanctuary  4 x Glacial Fortress 4 x Seachrome Coast 7 x Island 7 x Plains Creatures 1 x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite  2 x Snapcaster Mage  Spells 4 x Day of Judgment 3 x Entreat the Angels  4 x Mana Leak 2 x Oblivion Ring 4 x Ponder 2 x Righteous Blow 2 x Terminus 4 x Think Twice Artifacts 2 x Pristine Talisman Planeswalkers 2 x Gideon Jura 2 x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage Sideboard 2 x Angelic Wall  1 x Batterskull  2 x Dissipate 1 x Divine Offering  2 x Flashfreeze  2 x Phyrexian Metamorph  2 x Ratchet Bomb  1 x Revoke Existence 2 x Timely Reinforcements Seraph Sanctuary don't ask it was a joke because one of my friends thought it was amazing in sealed prior to the release of the set.  Angelic Wall was amazing against Delver when I boarded it in my opponent agreed that it was some sweet SB tech and actually very good in some matchups. I'm taking this deck to gameday tommorow so wish me luck I'll report back my findings after the event. And yes the sanctuary land is staying in there forever no questions asked.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 1:57PM
#74
|
Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2008
|
How has the Pristine Talismans worked out for you?
I'm finding this an allstar in esper control builds I'm working on. I really like pristine or a couple reasons. One in the mirror is really makes the games go long (this can work to your advantage while you try and hook up an Entreat). I had a game vs an essential mirror go almost 30 minutes because I was up to 45 life by the time my opponent decided to tap out for some tokens. I was able to take the full brunt of an attack before I wiped the board and brought my own tokens in.
The obvious boost against aggro is obvious.
I really like the progression of your build. I currently only have one Tamiyo but I think 2 is right where it needs to be. And 2 Gideons is in mine, pure house.
Curious questions about your build.
Why Elesh?
It seems if you want to play 1 creature that wins, why not Sun Titan. In your build the titan can do the following:
Recur o-rings
Recur Snappys
Recur Ghost Quarters
(and if you play with ratchets, you can get those back too)
All of those things you don't really need to do at any given moment, however when you DO cast the sun titan you get those options.
Whereas the Elesh is a ground body that clears tokens. I play with 2 curse of Death's Holds in my Esper Build which basically takes this roll, but they are harder to deal with for opponents. Just a thought anyways, I'm not quite seeing the point of the Elesh other than "I need a really good 1 creature card".
I think that taking mana leak right off the deck at this point isn't a bad thing either. I guess that's just my meta. But in the control matchup you play around it so much and the aggro matchup usually ramps. I just don't see leak being effective.
However I do find Negate to be REALLY effective.
It negates the following relevant cards in certain matchups:
Devil's Play
Bonfire
Entreat
Tamiyo
O-ring
Ratchet bomb
Unburial rites
It just seems like if I'm going to play a counterspell I might as well play negate. It just drops balls all over your opponent. Especially when your looking at anywhere from 4-7 board sweepers.
Anyways I like where this build is going!
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 2:54PM
#75
|
|
|
as a 1-of finisher, elesh is definitely better. sun titan really is a build around me creature, like primeval titan. the cards you mentioned that it works well with aren't nearly good enough of a reason to play sun titan. elesh norn is a solid house against everyone though, which is why she is favored. She's good against basically everyone, since everyone these days wins via creatures. important to note that she is good against inkmoth nexus too, and usually the whole WRR deck in general. She's just good at making things happen... i'm slowly convincing myself that I should be running her, and in fact I remember I did stick her in my board in my list over that miser righteous blow.
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 8:51PM
#76
|
Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2009
|
How has the Pristine Talismans worked out for you?
I'm finding this an allstar in esper control builds I'm working on. I really like pristine or a couple reasons. One in the mirror is really makes the games go long (this can work to your advantage while you try and hook up an Entreat). I had a game vs an essential mirror go almost 30 minutes because I was up to 45 life by the time my opponent decided to tap out for some tokens. I was able to take the full brunt of an attack before I wiped the board and brought my own tokens in.
The obvious boost against aggro is obvious.
I really like the progression of your build. I currently only have one Tamiyo but I think 2 is right where it needs to be. And 2 Gideons is in mine, pure house.
Curious questions about your build.
Why Elesh?
It seems if you want to play 1 creature that wins, why not Sun Titan. In your build the titan can do the following:
Recur o-rings
Recur Snappys
Recur Ghost Quarters
(and if you play with ratchets, you can get those back too)
All of those things you don't really need to do at any given moment, however when you DO cast the sun titan you get those options.
Whereas the Elesh is a ground body that clears tokens. I play with 2 curse of Death's Holds in my Esper Build which basically takes this roll, but they are harder to deal with for opponents. Just a thought anyways, I'm not quite seeing the point of the Elesh other than "I need a really good 1 creature card".
I think that taking mana leak right off the deck at this point isn't a bad thing either. I guess that's just my meta. But in the control matchup you play around it so much and the aggro matchup usually ramps. I just don't see leak being effective.
However I do find Negate to be REALLY effective.
It negates the following relevant cards in certain matchups:
Devil's Play
Bonfire
Entreat
Tamiyo
O-ring
Ratchet bomb
Unburial rites
It just seems like if I'm going to play a counterspell I might as well play negate. It just drops balls all over your opponent. Especially when your looking at anywhere from 4-7 board sweepers.
Anyways I like where this build is going!
I like the Talismans honestly, just can't spare the room sadly.
Why Elesh Norn? Well first off everything Burning_Forest said about her just sums it up. But to understand how the deck came to be and why she was included you must know what my goal was with the deck.
When I set out to make the deck I knew it had to beat WRR and that is when I tried the Bant Refuge control deck. But then I still lost to Inkmoths when I didn't have the mana to flash DOJ in. I started looking at the list and realized the only real reason I was playing green was to activate alchemist refuge  . So why bother when I could play UW(my favorite deck of all time) and have such a stable mana base that I can actually support 4 ghost quarter. So with that I set out to make the deck with WRR in mind. But I also had to beat aggro because alot of my meta is aggro.
Four Terminus was a must with all sorts of regenerating and undying creatures. With four Day of Judgment I was certain I could defeat aggro.
So Elesh stops most aggro decks cold she stops delver decks, RG aggro for the most part and most importantly I have so much boardwipe that the only real threat facing WRR is Inkmoths and she puts an end to that.
Leak is still VERY important in my opinion. I found this out last weekend in a SCGIQ. The whole day I wished I had leaks. Trust me I have been toying with the idea of just Negate as well but then I ask myself can I counter ST. Traft? Strangleroot? Etc...
Thank you for the compliments on the deck. I fear before long this build will be everywhere! Maybe....
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 9:43PM
#77
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2010
|
It's sweet to see that blue-white isn't dead due to blue-black or esper being the de facto builds of control this standard season. Compliments aside, your build made me think about running this. Lands: 4 x Seachrome Coast
4 x Glacial Fortress
4 x Seraph Sanctuary
3 x Ghost Quarter
6 x Island
5 x Plains
Creatures:
3 x Phantasmal Image
Noncreature/Nonland:
3 x Mana Leak
1 x Dissipate
4 x Day of Judgment
2 x Terminus
4 x Think Twice
2 x Ponder
2 x Thought Scour 
4 x Entreat the Angels
3 x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 x Gideon Jura
1 x Jace, Memory Adept 
3 x Pristine Talisman
Sideboard:
2 x Celestial Purge
2 x Ratchet Bomb
2 x Revoke Existence
2 x Negate
2 x Oblivion Ring
2 x Grafdigger's Cage 
1 x Karn Liberated
Reasoning for certain Choices:
Jace: Blue-White doesn't seem as well positioned in a control mirror as Blue-Black or Esper, simply because Blue-Black has Drownyard  and Esper has Liliana  and Sorin  . Ideally, though, Jace in the main allows for a fast closeout in Game 1 for unsuspecting opponents who Alchemy  half their deck into their 'yard.
Entreat & Seraph Sanctuary: I might be trying for too much value, but I feel like this combination might work. Getting 1 Sanctuary out makes any miracled Entreats into mega-Timely Reinforcements and normal-cast Entreats into pseudo Councils  . Getting multiple Sanctuaries out makes entreats a colossal beating in delver or aggro matchups if you ever flip an entreat.
Image: Huntmasters, Blade Splicers, Geists, Snapcaster, Thrun, any Titan, seems like it could work.
Thought Scour: Borrowing from Alexander Hayne's Hallelujah block deck, thought scour seems like a way to close out the game if Tamiyo's emblem goes off.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 8:56AM
#78
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2006
|
Ok so my teammate made the finals of Game Day today with his own version of UW Control this is the list he piloted for the event. Land 3 x Ghost Quarter 4 x Glacial Fortress 4 x Seachrome Coast 9 x Island 7 x Plains Creatures 4 x Snapcaster Mage Spells 2 x Blue Sun's Zenith 4 x Day of Judgment 4 x Dissipate 1 x Divine Offering 1 x Entreat the Angels 2 x Gitaxian Probe  4 x Mana Leak 2 x Negate 4 x Think Twice 2 x Thought Scour 2 x White Sun's Zenith Planeswalkers 1 x Gideon Jura Sideboard 1 x Dismember  1 x Divine Deflection  1 x Divine Offering 2 x Flashfreeze 4 x Mental Misstep  2 x Steel Sabotage  4 x Timely Reinforcements As you can see it's a much heavier on the control side than the lists in this thread including mine. Let us know what you think because this could be the deck that we both pilot at our PTQ and WMCQ next weekend.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 9:02AM
#79
|
Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2008
|
I like the Talismans honestly, just can't spare the room sadly.
Why Elesh Norn? Well first off everything Burning_Forest said about her just sums it up. But to understand how the deck came to be and why she was included you must know what my goal was with the deck.
When I set out to make the deck I knew it had to beat WRR and that is when I tried the Bant Refuge control deck. But then I still lost to Inkmoths when I didn't have the mana to flash DOJ in. I started looking at the list and realized the only real reason I was playing green was to activate alchemist refuge . So why bother when I could play UW(my favorite deck of all time) and have such a stable mana base that I can actually support 4 ghost quarter. So with that I set out to make the deck with WRR in mind. But I also had to beat aggro because alot of my meta is aggro.
Four Terminus was a must with all sorts of regenerating and undying creatures. With four Day of Judgment I was certain I could defeat aggro.
So Elesh stops most aggro decks cold she stops delver decks, RG aggro for the most part and most importantly I have so much boardwipe that the only real threat facing WRR is Inkmoths and she puts an end to that.
Leak is still VERY important in my opinion. I found this out last weekend in a SCGIQ. The whole day I wished I had leaks. Trust me I have been toying with the idea of just Negate as well but then I ask myself can I counter ST. Traft? Strangleroot? Etc...
Thank you for the compliments on the deck. I fear before long this build will be everywhere! Maybe....
I'm curious though about a 1 of Elesh vs Inkmoth.
Inkmoth seems to be the biggest problem for decks that I build (with a similar goal to this). It's also the reason why I run the curse. The curse adds black with janks up the mana base for sure, but it does give me access to doom blades or gott which I find a little more useful than righteous blow. Though righteous is pretty good. It also answers enemy tokens (to some degree) and buys me further time vs cards like huntmaster (oo you hit me for 1?).
I find that if you're facing inkmoth it's probably in some sort of wolf run aggro and by the time you FIND your Elesh your probably already at a pretty threatening life total.
Anyways just some extra thoughts on this. I thinkt he 4 Ghost Quarters is where it's at for sure against inkmoth and just skipping over worrying about -2/-2 which might open up for a different finisher.
The comments against Sun Titan are probably decent, what about a Wurmcoil or a Sphinx 1 of? Wurmcoil can be layed down early, doesn't care about day of jugdment (to some degree) and nets some life in close games vs aggro (to continue to allow you to win via the entreat/tamiyo). Also vs the mirror what do you do about opposing planeswalkers. 2 O-rings seems short on that. I'm worried someone will play a Jace on you and you'll be toast.
Just some further thoughts anyways.
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 9:30AM
#80
|
|
|
wurmcoil doesn't pass the vapor snag test, but elesh does. elesh comes down and kills a bunch of things (ideally), but wurm just goes back into the hand.
wurmcoil isn't a bad sideboard options if you need something more against MBA or RG or whatever, but if you were to play just a 1-of fattie maindeck for this deck, its elesh.
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think.
|
|
|
