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Switch to Forum Live View 05/14/2012 MM: "The Name's Bond, Soulbond"
1 year ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 11:43AM #1
Garmichael
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 1,572
This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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1 year ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 10:19PM #2
Senyuno
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 452
Very nice work with Soulbond, the idea is simple yet amazing fun. You can make your pairs as simple and obvious as you want, or you can find more complex interactions with other creatures that benefits interestingly from the pairs. The set offers both.


You mention Soulbond creatures look weak, but I just want to reassure you that the average player won't notice, TBH. Competitive players of course can accurately judge for themselves a card's merit, but the average player is more casual: they think of the maximum possibilities of a card/mechanic, whether it be Lord of Shatterskull Pass 's final level being brutal, Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded having a sweet ultimate, or Silverblade Paladin and Wolfir Silverheart paired. They don't take a swift look at a card and dismiss it, they think of greatest possibilities. That's what draws them, not the mana expenditure, or the exact stats compared to the metagame, or the inherent card advantage here, there, and all this. So Soulbond will be a big hit at my FNM.


I'm already getting tired of Soulbond in limited. The entire set is Soulbond:

1) it's in 4 colors
2) removal is scarce
3) it's increased with blink, which doesn't affect the opponent's Soulbond, and also influences the increase in EtB abilities
4) bounce is only allowed because it is so weak against Soulbond and EtB
5) creatures are smaller than usual because theyre meant to pair, 2/3 for 4 is the average, and usually you have to pay more for even 3/3 level barrier
6) Black is everything 1-5 is not.

It's good the set is designed around its mechanics, but this one shoves it too far down my throat and just wears me out of the same thing all the time.
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1 year ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:03PM #3
Donovan_Fabian
Date Joined: Oct 1, 2006
Posts: 1,037
I don't play limited so I can't speak for that, but I'm already planning a soulbond deck for standard.  Casual of course, but that's what makes soulbond great is that it is a fun mechanic.  As compared to some of the previous mechanics of earlier sets I don't see how anyone can look at soulbond and think it's overpowered or will lead to unfun game states.


Strangely though while green is supposed to be the best color for soulbond I don't find this to be the case.  My favorite soulbond cards thus far are all the blue ones.  Elguad shieldmate will be going in several decks to come for my casual play I'm sure.  Making all my creatures hexproof is great (especially when you consider it for protecting a griselbrand in ubw renanimator or something like that).


I also really like the way tandem lookout and wingcrafter play.  The lookout is the first easy to splash card draw creature that simultaneously can give it's power to another creature and still has a 2/1 power/toughness ratio (earlier cards like scroll thief were a 1/3, neurok commando was a 2/1 shroud but there was few ways to get it past the opponents creatures easily, and cold eyed selkie required all colored mana and was a 1/1 albeit one of the better versions we've seen).   It's easy to dismiss wingcrafter until you consider that it essentially is a 1 mana flyer that makes all your other creatures evasive.  Plus he has two relevant creature types.  So, for example, being a human wizard I could use him in an old school wizard deck or I could use the human aspect to go with all the things that pair with human in the last few sets.  Such as mayor avabruk and so on.

For creature boosting wolfir silverheart is pretty amazing, but I don't see the other ones making big waves.  If for no other reason than we are pretty jaded about seeing big creatures in green by this point (woolly thoctar and leatherback baloth backlash).  Not to mention standard is overflowing with aggro creatures and power boosting effects which are very similiar, but more powerful than soulbond (the 2 color lords and the mayor for example give all their respective creature types +1/1 across the board).


Even lightning mauler looks pretty amazing.  The whole 2 mana creature that gives haste thing has been done many times, but usually it always took not attacking with that creature and a mana investment.


Maybe it's just me, but it actually feels like green is a lot weaker for soulbond overall (well excluding black anyways).  Especially considering that it's either make my guys have: double strike, draw more cards, fire breathing, hexproof and etc or just be very large.  All the same I think they will be fun to play with for sure.  I look forward to surprising my opponents with a simple play like tandem lookout/wingcrafter to draw 2 every turn.


Edit:  One thing that should be in an article though is for example what happens if multiple soulbound creatures enter play at exactly the same time.  Can you pair them up with the same creature all at once since they are unpaired or do you have to do an individual pair for each one?  Also what happens if my soulbond creature becomes something else (for example via an infinite reflection)?  Like if my soulbond creature is a wingcrafter paired with another creature and I use infinite reflection on my opponents wolfir does that mean my wingcrafter and the other creature become paired wolfirs that are 12/12 or do I need to play another creature?  I think that it would help to explain some of the nuances in the next article.  
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1 year ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:34PM #4
Senyuno
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 452
Multiple Soulbond triggers may occur, but once two are paired, it does no good to try and pair the third wheel out to one of the paired creatures: neither of them are unpaired as the text for Soulbond requires.

But even if you don't understand that, they went ahead and also released another rule that simply states a pair is two creatures. 
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1 year ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:38PM #5
Donovan_Fabian
Date Joined: Oct 1, 2006
Posts: 1,037

May 13, 2012 -- 11:34PM, Senyuno wrote:

Multiple Soulbond triggers may occur, but once two are paired, it does no good to try and pair the third wheel out to one of the paired creatures: neither of them are unpaired as the text for Soulbond requires.

But even if you don't understand that, they went ahead and also released another rule that simply states a pair is two creatures. 




I see, so they happen on the stack then.  What about the second question though, what if my soulbonded creature turns into another soulbonded creature or something like that?


I didn't realize there had been rulings posted yet.  

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1 year ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:55PM #6
DarthBunny
Date Joined: Apr 22, 2012
Posts: 14
Dear Wotc,

Please find a new name for New World Order. I'm not arguing whenever or not it's a good policy for magic to have, but the name is extremely ironic. New World Order, when heard by those outside magic design, brings to mind evil power elites plotting to take over the world via a cunning masterstroke after centuries of plotting. I don't think it is good PR to associate your design plans with the Sith from Star Wars or with western perception of Communism. Also, the phrase just sounds super sinster.

Btw, good job with soulbond. Tried it out at the prerelease and I actually really enjoyed it. Especially Tandem Lookout.

EDIT: Why was soulbond second in blue? I know it plays well with blue's bounce and (in this set) temporary exile mechanics, but soulbond seems flavorally white: teamwork, organization and dedication to others. Heck, it could have even been red to finally play up that red "is the color of love". Black of course should not get soulbond except for a wierd rare or mythic. If soulbond returns in a future set, would white or red get a large share?
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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 12:09AM #7
xJudicatorx
Date Joined: Apr 2, 2010
Posts: 196
Flowering Lumberknot looks way too much like Vigean Hydropon to me.  I know you wanted to make it situational, but it's too risky in limited and too weak for constructed.

Also, I grok'd Soulbond right away, but some people who really should have understood it are really, REALLY struggling with it.  Perhaps Paired was a bad choice of term.
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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 2:24AM #8
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,324
I've noted a number of mistakes made at the prerelease:

1. Pairing with your opponent's creatures (the 'you control' is hidden in the second sentence. Many will read the first sentence and think it's possible.
2. Repairing creatures. I made this mistake a LOT >.> I had a pair on the battlefield, then wanted to play a 3rd and pair it with the soulbond guy from the pair.
3. Forgetting creatures lost the ability when unpaired. This won me games I should have lost =) Playing Terrifying Presence on your Vorstclaw against my blocking recently unpaired Nightshade Peddler preventing your other creatures from doing damage to me? Don't mind if you do.

May 13, 2012 -- 10:19PM, Senyuno wrote:

6) Black is everything 1-5 is not.

It's good the set is designed around its mechanics, but this one shoves it too far down my throat and just wears me out of the same thing all the time.




Try drafting monoblack =D
It's a house and has tons of removal.  

May 13, 2012 -- 11:03PM, Donovan_Fabian wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but it actually feels like green is a lot weaker for soulbond overall (well excluding black anyways).




MaRo is purely talking about limited.

May 13, 2012 -- 11:38PM, Donovan_Fabian wrote:

I see, so they happen on the stack then.  What about the second question though, what if my soulbonded creature turns into another soulbonded creature or something like that?





702.93e A paired creature becomes unpaired if any of the following occur: another player gains control of it or the creature it's paired with; it or the creature it's paired with stops being a creature; or it or the creature it's paired with leaves the battlefield.

So yes they would be 12/12 Wolfirs =)
They would even remain paired if both lost all abilities (but they wouldn't give out bonusses)

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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 3:38AM #9
Fox_Murdoch
Date Joined: Sep 10, 2005
Posts: 80
Soulbond is obviously a good mechanic, and quite popular. It's bleedin' obvious its going to come back, and it'll be good to see what black can do with the ability.

I remember the "freak out" value when I first read soulbond. I assumed it was a reworking of banding (bond/band?) and was preparing for the worst. Though this is a great way to communicate the working together. 
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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 4:25AM #10
Gobias
Date Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 31

May 13, 2012 -- 11:55PM, DarthBunny wrote:

Dear Wotc,

Please find a new name for New World Order. I'm not arguing whenever or not it's a good policy for magic to have, but the name is extremely ironic. New World Order, when heard by those outside magic design, brings to mind evil power elites plotting to take over the world via a cunning masterstroke after centuries of plotting. I don't think it is good PR to associate your design plans with the Sith from Star Wars or with western perception of Communism. Also, the phrase just sounds super sinster.





I, for one, welcome our new Sith Overlords.

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