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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 1:16PM
#301
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White isn't selfless. One side of white is the controlling government that tells its people what is best for them. This is why white and blue overlap, they both prefer control and order - even if others disagree. This is why white and red don't get along, red is often about absolute freedom which is in direct opposition to white's preference to structure.
Nevermore  's flavor text says it best.
White is selfless. That's the core of White's philosophy: What is best for the group. White doesn't seek power because it wants power; White seeks power because it wants to use that power to help others. The "controlling government that tells its people what is best for them" is selfless; it genuinely believes that it's doing what is best for its people. It's looking out for the group, rather than any given individual.
From The Great White Way, Mark Rosewater's article about White's philosophy ( www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a... ):
White wants what is best for the whole. White looks out for everyone. White would be happiest in a utopian society where everyone shares and cooperates with one another.
and
White is looking not just to help itself but to help the entire world.
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White believes that the good of society is more important than the rights of a single individual. The laws white creates help ensure that the group is protected.
Mark Rosewater even lists "self-sacrifice" as a White trait under "What does the color represent?".
Yes, White can cross a line and become fascistic. However, it does so with the intention of protecting its people. White doesn't take away people's freedoms because it likes having power over them; it takes away those freedoms because letting people do whatever they want is dangerous. Having a law against the average citizen owning a weapon may restrinct the population's freedom, but it makes it harder for them to kill each other. Having a curfew may mean people are less free, but forcing them to be inside after a particular time ensures that they are safe when the things that go bump in the night come out. Law means less personal freedom, but anarchy means the weak aren't protected from the strong.
A White character puts the good of the group above that of the individual (even itself), and that is the very definition of selflessness.
Selfless is doing things only for others, not for yourself. As the link I posted said, at its best, that's what white is. That's not what white all the time though. You even quoted something that said white isn't just looking out for itself, but the entire world - but IT IS looking looking to help out itself by helping society. That's missing the point though, selfishness is a trait of black and red. While white can be selfless, it can also stamp out the rights of others. Just because you aren't being selfish doesn't automatically mean you're being selfless though. A white being would impose its own rules on an individual, these are rules it already agrees with. Let's not beat around the bush, a bad white character will kill another individual because that individual disagrees with its laws, or because it thinks its the best thing for society. Something like racism could very much fit under a white mantra (humans are the master race, the other races poison our lands and take up vital resources, therefore it is in the best interest of society for us to commit some genocide on the elves and half-elves who are abominations).
Having a law against the average citizen owning a weapon may restrinct the population's freedom, but it makes it harder for them to kill each other
Except white might push it in the zone of "If you own a weapon, you will be killed." This isn't all white governments at all, but IT IS a possible white government. They might do this because its best for that society if that person in power, stays in power. That might sound black to you, but black would do it because they want the power, wealth, etc. while the white characters would do it because they just think they know what's best for everyone.
Example, from the article you posted:
The Villain from Watchmen – SPOILER – If you haven’t read Watchmen (the best comic series of all time – my opinion, but I’ll stand by it), stop reading this section. Instead, go out and buy a copy of the graphic novel. It’s very good. Okay, the rest of you have all read Watchmen, correct? If not, this is your last chance not to ruin it. Ozymandias is the perfect example of a white villain. His motives are very pure. He believes he is taking actions that will help the world at large. And he is more than willing to sacrifice a few for the greater good of the whole. This proves that white characters are not always good. What separates white villains from black villains (remember I’m talking the Magic color wheel here) is that black villains know they’re doing evil while white villains believe they’re doing good.
Actually, not really. There are many protagonists in media; Maro claims, for example, that Donald Duck is a good example of /
I think Donald Duck is more well known as Mickey's Antagonist than as an actual protagonist. Yes, he has his protagonist cartoons, but let's not be honest - Mickey is the disney protagonist of that group. Everyone gets their moment to shine, but Goofy is mostly a sidekick, Donald is a friend, but rival, etc. Also, was it Donald or Daffy? Daffy is definitely black, always looking out for himself, trying to get Bugs killed, etc. Also more of an antagonist for Bugs Bunny though (who would be... green?)
But I think I'll stop here, getting way off-topic.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 2:35PM
#302
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Selfless is doing things only for others, not for yourself. As the link I posted said, at its best, that's what white is. That's not what white all the time though. You even quoted something that said white isn't just looking out for itself, but the entire world - but IT IS looking looking to help out itself by helping society. That's missing the point though, selfishness is a trait of black and red. While white can be selfless, it can also stamp out the rights of others. Just because you aren't being selfish doesn't automatically mean you're being selfless though. A white being would impose its own rules on an individual, these are rules it already agrees with. Let's not beat around the bush, a bad white character will kill another individual because that individual disagrees with its laws, or because it thinks its the best thing for society. Something like racism could very much fit under a white mantra (humans are the master race, the other races poison our lands and take up vital resources, therefore it is in the best interest of society for us to commit some genocide on the elves and half-elves who are abominations).
I have to disagree with you again here. Being selfless doesn't mean you can't ever do something that benefits yourself; it just means that you're motivated by helping others, first and foremost. Obviously helping a society of which you're a member will help you as well, but a selfless person won't care that he's helping himself, he's doing it for the society.
Stamping out the rights of others doesn't make White not selfless. White doesn't stamp out their rights to empower itself, or to make them worse off; White stamps out others' rights because it genuinely believes that taking away those rights makes them better off. Imposing its own rules on others is much the same: White believes that its rules are the best for everyone, so it will actively force others to live by those rules, in order to better their lives.
As for racism: Yes, Xenophobia is a White trait. However, when White is xenophobic, it's almost always going to be because it genuinely feels that outsiders are a threat to its society. For the good of the group White's protecting, it has to eliminate external threats.
Except white might push it in the zone of "If you own a weapon, you will be killed." This isn't all white governments at all, but IT IS a possible white government. They might do this because its best for that society if that person in power, stays in power. That might sound black to you, but black would do it because they want the power, wealth, etc. while the white characters would do it because they just think they know what's best for everyone.
"Would do it because they just think they know what's best for everyone." They're not self-motivated, they're motivated by a desire to do what's best for everyone. That's selfless.
As for killing those who break the law: Think of it as cutting off an infected limb in order to save a person's life. Whether you agree that it's fair to play with human lives that way (I'm not saying White can do no wrong, just that White isn't motivated by personal gain), the motivation is still selfless. Letting the individual who threatens the group's peace live means danger for the whole; therefore, White sees no choice but to eliminate the part in order to safeguard the whole.
Note that in the Ozymandius quote you chose, there is this line:
His motives are very pure. He believes he is taking actions that will help the world at large. And he is more than willing to sacrifice a few for the greater good of the whole.
That is most definitely selfless. He's willing to make sacrifices (admittedly not personal ones, but that's not the point) for the betterment of society at large. He's not doing it because he wants power, or because the people he's sacrificing have wronged him in some way; he's doing it because he feels that doing it will be to everyone's benefit.
Please note that I'm not saying White is always self-sacrificing, or a martyr (though those are White traits). I'm merely saying that White's motivations aren't personal. White is selfless because White doesn't think of what's best for the self, but for the group. Selfless and Self-sacrificing are two different things, and while Self-sacrifice is a White trait, selflessness is the defining White trait.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 2:58PM
#303
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Date Joined:
Nov 25, 2009
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Could the people talking about White please get their own thread. I've seen these things before. They tend to become quite long.
"What is etherium but the next logical step?" It's all my fault.
Show
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME!
Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha
lol
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 3:01PM
#304
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I think Donald Duck is more well known as Mickey's Antagonist than as an actual protagonist. Yes, he has his protagonist cartoons, but let's not be honest - Mickey is the disney protagonist of that group. Everyone gets their moment to shine, but Goofy is mostly a sidekick, Donald is a friend, but rival, etc. Also, was it Donald or Daffy? Daffy is definitely black, always looking out for himself, trying to get Bugs killed, etc. Also more of an antagonist for Bugs Bunny though (who would be... green?)
Donald is the protagonist of quite several stories actually, though admitely mostly european ones. And he's only really antagonistic when it comes to the squirrel things I forgot the name.
Both ducks are mentioned, but obiously I picked Donald as an example. Duffy, while not evil, is still far less likable, and therefore less of an example of Black's good side.
Another example would be Scrooge McDuck, who is also evry Black, what with being greedy and all.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 3:09PM
#305
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Could the people talking about White please get their own thread. I've seen these things before. They tend to become quite long.
I started a new thread for the discussion of White's selflessness. Sorry I got sidetracked again  Color pie discussions are my favorite thing ever.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 3:40PM
#306
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It's gonna be a slog to find entries now.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 3:50PM
#307
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 4:02PM
#308
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Mirel Aegis- by Chronego 1Morota Moore-by EddnedMorbeingerg, the Mad Princess- by Shamseil 1Aria, the Blood Witch- by HairlessTHoctar 2
Myrian, the Rot Queen- by AzureShade
Vellah Mors- by Jedi8187
Veil the Stormheart- by underground player
Aurica Angelheart- by TevishSzat
Deluvia Redscales- by Arbatracious
Amehtah- by GunG12ave
Jerezal of the Wild- by hail_the_mill_crab
Atricia Lymont- by Keeperofmanynames 2
I reckon my vote has to get cast towards Atricia. Near as I can figure, it has to do with the charmin' style of the entry and build up from existing materials. Makes her feel fleshed out. Sets a right good mood too.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 5:05PM
#309
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13 months ago ::
May 31, 2012 - 12:17PM
#310
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This will close at midnight friday. i will hopefully get my entry in by then.
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