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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:01AM
#1
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- UnCon Prizewinner 2008
- …mmm
Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2008
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Demigod of Revenge  Counterspell  So, I have a question regarding how far I can stretch being a jerk with Demigod of Revenge with respect to counters and the trigger. Obviously, if I felt like arguing it to the bone, Demigod would come back nine times out of ten. However, if I didn't feel like being that much of a jerk, how far could I get? ie: Demigod of Revenge(A) in my graveyard. I cast a Demigod of Revenge, only announcing the casting Demigod of Revenge(B) itself. My opponent Counterspells the Demigod of Revenge before I return Demigod of Revenge(A) to the battlefield. I then bring back both Demigod of Revenges(A&B) from the graveyard to the battlefield. My opponent calls a judge. ... You as the judge, how would you call it? Would omitting the truth put Demigod(B) back in my graveyard, or would it serve as a life lesson on his part? I realize my question is incredibly vague, which is why I provided the example. Answering that would give me a good idea of where I can and cannot go.
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:03AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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you have to announce the trigger since you control it
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:08AM
#3
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He has to give you a reasonable amount of time to announce the trigger though. If he jumps out with Counterspell as soon as you say Demigod of Revenge, it's his own fault. Also, after you announce the trigger, he must wait until the trigger resolves before announcing his Counterspell.
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:10AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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Also, after you announce the trigger, he must wait until the trigger resolves before announcing his Counterspell.
he can use counterspell with the trigger still on the stack
it is usually a tactical error, but he can do it.
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:12AM
#5
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Also, after you announce the trigger, he must wait until the trigger resolves before announcing his Counterspell.
he can use counterspell with the trigger still on the stack
it is usually a tactical error, but he can do it.
OK yeah, that's what I mean. If he announces counterspell before the trigger resolves, the countered Demigod will be returned to play by it's own trigger.
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 8:22PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2012
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If he's countering before you bring the other Demigod back, then there's no real question. He elected to play the counter before the trigger resolved. I would still clarify by asking when he's countering, and letting him know what will happen if he counters too soon, since it normally wouldn't be a good move to let both Demigods return. I know a few players who have quit the game due to other players (sometimes me  ) allowing their incomplete understanding of the rules to cost them games. That's not really the type of play environment I'd want to encourage or promote.
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 1:35AM
#7
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If he's countering before you bring the other Demigod back, then there's no real question. He elected to play the counter before the trigger resolved. I would still clarify by asking when he's countering, and letting him know what will happen if he counters too soon, since it normally wouldn't be a good move to let both Demigods return.
The only tournament I'd actually explained it to my opponent would be FNM. Anywhere else, winning a game of magic comes down to knowing more interactions and paying more attention etc. I don't even see taking advantage of early counter or wrong counter as a jerk move - it's just taking advantage of your deeper understanding of the game mechanics (all above said barring the situations where you somehow "conned" or tricked your opponent to think it doesn't matter when he counters).
I know a few players who have quit the game due to other players (sometimes me ) allowing their incomplete understanding of the rules to cost them games. That's not really the type of play environment I'd want to encourage or promote.
It's hard to say. For example, I am the kind of player who learns best from plays that screw me over. Because nothing get stored in my memory as good as a play that cost me a game. As well, there is difference between winning a game for that trigger, then explaining what happened and winning for that trigger and then being all "in yo face noob" about it.
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 4:03AM
#8
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This was settled back when Shadowmoor was released and, to the best of my knowledge, has not been changed since.
A player who casts a counterspell is assumed to do so at the earliest possible opportunity.
Therefore in this situation the counterspell is cast and resolves before the triggered ability, thus both Demigods are put onto the battlefield.
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 4:05AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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what if the caster fails to mention the trigger?
does that change anything?
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 4:12AM
#10
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what if the caster fails to mention the trigger?
does that change anything?
I don't belive so.
The opponent is presumed to be intelligent enough to read the card and work out there is a triggered ability on the stack. If he does not, that's his lookout.
Also, "once bitten, twice shy." The player's going to be more likely to retain the lesson of he falls for it the first time. So certainly, in a Competitive or Professional setting, the player gets both Demigods.
A discussion on why might be applicable in a Regular setting, but I don't think I'd change the ruling even there. (One of the lessons to be learned here is that once a spell has been announced, you cannot take that back.)
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