Revival's a combo piece of sorts (IE, Card Disadvantage, but if you're winning the game by playing it, then it's well worth running). Indigo pretty much hit the nail on the head, honestly. Also a great call for the, "Stop playing Ponder T1," thing. Delver does it because yeah, their Turn 2 can win them a game if it's powerful enough. Everyone else shouldn't be wasting a Ponder unless they need to make sure they can Land Drop Turn 2 and 3 or something.
Lastly, 3 mana and 3 cards for 10 damage* seems pretty decent to me; that's better than trip Bolts, and anyone saying that trip Bolts isn't fantastic is being ridiculous, IMO. Wrath, Bonfire, Entreat, and maybe Miracle Timewalk make Revival worth running...as a 2-of or so. If you have enough Filter in your deck, maybe even as a 1-of, especially if you have Snappy.
*Run Thought Scour if you're going to run Revival and Snappy; cheaper, still Instant speed, and can let you choose what you want to Miracle better than Ponder. So Wrath, Revival, Scour, Wrath again = Effectively having 3 Bolts in hand, and you lose 2 life.
The only time I'd really want to play Noxious is if I'm playing Entreat the Angels, just 'cause that cards so redonk its with the negative card advantage to set it up. Or maybe Bonfire, but I'm not sure Bonfire really has a home that makes it worth casting multiple times. And then only as a one-of really. Temporal -might- be worth it, but only later in the game, and only if you are ahead. I don't like those conditions a lot. But this is just me, anyone else is entitled to an opinion on it.
(at)MrEnglish22 "still a better Commander card than Emmara Tandris" -On the topic of Squire
Oh, no, what I was saying is that Revival is only worth playing if you're going to mill yourself to have more control over what Miracles to cast and when. Looting, Lighthouse, Looter, Scour would make Revival worth playing. As I said before, more of a combo piece.
Oh, no, what I was saying is that Revival is only worth playing if you're going to mill yourself to have more control over what Miracles to cast and when. Looting, Lighthouse, Looter, Scour would make Revival worth playing. As I said before, more of a combo piece.
Heck, Temporal Exiles itself after you cast it.
Totally forgot about that part with Temporal. Then again, I was never a huge fan of it in the first place, so I never bothered to care what it did.
That said, I would still consider using Noxious Revival with Entreat the Angels, sans-milling, just because it seems that good with it. And I'm also not a fan of self-mill in standard.
(at)MrEnglish22 "still a better Commander card than Emmara Tandris" -On the topic of Squire
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Lastly, 3 mana and 3 cards for 10 damage* seems pretty decent to me; that's better than trip Bolts, and anyone saying that trip Bolts isn't fantastic is being ridiculous, IMO. Wrath, Bonfire, Entreat, and maybe Miracle Timewalk make Revival worth running...as a 2-of or so. If you have enough Filter in your deck, maybe even as a 1-of, especially if you have Snappy.
Maybe it's because I'm using old math, but that's 4 mana minimum, here. One for the spell, two for the think twice, one for the spell again. That pushes it down to Shock range. Not horribly good. I agree that Entreat is worth running Revival with, though.
That's why I said to use Thought Scour, though honestly you'd run both, and even with Think Twice, you're still talking 2 Bolts and a Flame Rift at Instant Speed.
EDIT: Whoops, thought Thunderbolt was 4 to either Player or Flier.
The logic is not flawed unless you look at it the way you do. It IS the only option in Standard for top deck Manipulation. If you want to manipulate the top of the deck in Standard that is going to be the first card you think of. The real question is do you NEED to manipulate the top of your deck? Will it get you something you can use now and push things back you can't? I know I'd hate to draw a miracle that has no targets on turn two if I could instead push it back to turn 3. I find that more appealing then just having a dead draw on turn two. Because of that I could see the logic as to why it would be played. Do the benifits out weigh the Negatives? prolly not, but the same can be said about a lot of magic cards. Mana Leak is one of those in my opinion. The whole point of a counter is to counter and late game when players can pay to cancel Mana Leak it becomes a dead card. Anything that can become dead at ANY point of the game are cards I have a hard time wanting to play. That does not stop people from playing it for its potential. I play it for the potential it has even though I hate using it.
That analogy is terribly flawed. When you cast Ponder , you look at the top three cards and will draw one of them. If the miracle was first, then you have gained nothing. If it was second,you have to choose between drawing it when you would have or one turn sooner. If it was third, you have to draw it one or two turns sooner. That's not much benefit. It's not good, and you're better off casting something useful instead.
Mana Leak is relevant at almost any time of the game. It's not often that the game will be decided by a threat with three mana open after you cast it. The rest of the time, it's a hard counter.
Ponder has potential in a deck with miracles. People see that and feel it is the best possible choice. I do not blame them. I do not try to instruct them on what is better or worse for them by downing them and saying they are wrong.
Once again, if someone put a One with Nothing in his Hellbent deck, telling him there is Putrid Imp that is better is not going to help him. That's bad advice. He should a whole deck that benefits from throwing away his cards. You're not helping him.
All I have ever seen from you is critisim that is neither constructive or helpful. You think you are helping but the way you go about it does more harm than good. Even now just because I said I play this game for fun you immediately shove me into the Casual crowd. Not even considering why I consider it fun.
Mr. Indigo is one of the most constructive members here. I mean, you say that to Catowner and I'll say it's difficult to argue, given his vindicative style. But Mr. Indigo? He's always rationnal, full of good advice, and explains a lot about the game. I know that he made me progress a lot as a player, and I respect his word a lot.
The point of it all is just let people play what they want. Don't tell them their ideas are wrong cause of X or Y. Tell them why there are BETTER CHOICES then the ones they have chosen. You have YET to provide a better choice in Standard for top deck manipulation. Brainstorm might be the best card for Miracles but its not Standard so what else you got?
The better choice is not to run library manipulation. That can be a better choice.
If you don't have anything better then drop it. I'm tired of people complaining about people not listening to them like whining children who did not get the toy they wanted at the store.
It can get exasperating to copy-paste an explanation on every other thread. Furthermore, this thread was made with humor. We like humor.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back.
Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?
Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability. If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat. Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap. If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player. Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield. Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has? No freaking way. Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
1. cast frankie peanuts 2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power 3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo 4. donate them a platinum angel 5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus , then play enchanted evening . play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever) 6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated.
Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH.
-First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20.
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates.
Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block.
No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too.
Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
"I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy ." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so...
"Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use.
From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin.
183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn . He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft ) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft . Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1
Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad .
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797
Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1
Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist.
Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
That's why I said to use Thought Scour, though honestly you'd run both, and even with Think Twice, you're still talking 2 Bolts and a Flame Rift at Instant Speed.
EDIT: Whoops, thought Thunderbolt was 4 to either Player or Flier.
Although, as a 3 card combo, it's still one of those "If I get the peices" kind of thing.
Eh, it's not like it wouldn't work, it just doesn't feel impressive to me. A lot of decks deal an equivlant amount of damage by turn 3, and most of them don't have to work as hard.
That analogy is terribly flawed. When you cast Ponder , you look at the top three cards and will draw one of them. If the miracle was first, then you have gained nothing. If it was second,you have to choose between drawing it when you would have or one turn sooner. If it was third, you have to draw it one or two turns sooner. That's not much benefit. It's not good, and you're better off casting something useful instead.
Mana Leak is relevant at almost any time of the game. It's not often that the game will be decided by a threat with three mana open after you cast it. The rest of the time, it's a hard counter.
Once again, if someone put a One with Nothing in his Hellbent deck, telling him there is Putrid Imp that is better is not going to help him. That's bad advice. He should a whole deck that benefits from throwing away his cards. You're not helping him.
Mr. Indigo is one of the most constructive members here. I mean, you say that to Catowner and I'll say it's difficult to argue, given his vindicative style. But Mr. Indigo? He's always rationnal, full of good advice, and explains a lot about the game. I know that he made me progress a lot as a player, and I respect his word a lot.
The better choice is not to run library manipulation. That can be a better choice.
It can get exasperating to copy-paste an explanation on every other thread. Furthermore, this thread was made with humor. We like humor.
I don't understand how you don't get how ponder can help a deck with a few miracles. It lets you choose how the next three cards will be drawn and even gives you one of them immediately. Scenario: turn one island, ponder... whoops looks like I will draw Temporial Mastery next turn... Instead I will draw it on turn three when I can cast it. /end
How does that not work with Miracles?!? In a deck with no more than 8 Miracles at any given time Ponder can be extremely helpful to time your miracles. It is HORRIBLE in a deck that has more than that as you run the risk of hitting miltiples durning the ponder but I would rather ponder and push a miracle back a turn to be able to cast it than have an extremely expensive card I could not cast on the draw.
I have had more than a few games where Mana Leak ended up being a dead card late game. It has happened a little less due to the amount of aggression needed to make a competative deck in standard today but it has still happened quite a bit at FNM.
One with nothing it a mute point as it is not Standard. Argueing about it is pointless as it has absolutely no effect on the current game.
I don't know Mr. Indigo. I do not care about him personally. This was not a joke thread. This thread was him expressing his opinion about something he did not like. You might have taken it as a joke but I did not. This thread did not show his rationality either. If he was rational he would be able to see both sides of the arguement and explain his side in a way that both solidified his and did not offend the other. I do not even have a clue as to what kind of deck he is basing his assumptions on. Like I said in a deck with a few Miracles CAN benifit from Ponder. That does not mean it will. He on the other hand is talking about it like Ponder does absolutely nothing useful.
My question is why not run library manipulation? If I am running blue I want to manipulate my deck and others to get where I want to be to win. Now running a deck that does not draw and top decks all the time I would be more inclined to just stick to top decking miracles instead. Mono Red is one of those that would benifit more from it than anything. Yet again you have not provided an answer to other solutions to library manipulation.
I understand your concern about copy and pasting but it is a forum. People do not always read everything and sometimes you have to do that for a simple answer just so they can get all the information about the situation at hand.
In my mind Ponder is a decent choice to help curb your deck from drawing Miracles too soon and it can even get you some land or spell you might need next turn more than the Miracle. Mind you I would splash Miracles like I splash colors into a deck so for me that control is key to making the deck work right.
Explore is a little more accurate, but yeah pretty much.
"I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God."
: Regenerate.
