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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 8:50PM #1
bascotie
Date Joined: Apr 23, 2012
Posts: 470
Ponder

Does the "draw a card" come after the shuffle with the 3 cards in it, or can you draw the card you put on top then shuffle? 
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 8:52PM #2
Chaikov
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 5,831
You draw last.

608.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written...




 

«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»

Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 8:52PM #3
bascotie
Date Joined: Apr 23, 2012
Posts: 470

May 2, 2012 -- 8:52PM, Chaikov wrote:

You draw last.

608.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written...




 




You're pro, thanks

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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:33PM #4
Enigma256
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 13,863
compare Preordain to Serum Visions , they are not functionally identical
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:37PM #5
rudolf
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 16,229

May 2, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Enigma256 wrote:

compare Preordain to Serum Visions , they are not functionally identical




Why the templating difference?  Why doesn't the Visions say Draw a Card, then Scry 2?  Or Why doesn't Preordain say:
Scry 2
Draw a Card
?

 

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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:47PM #6
Enigma256
Date Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 13,863
I guess because Preordain is newer
Foresee also uses Preordain template (or more likely the other way round )
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:49PM #7
jeff-heikkinen
  • ****(ytic)
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2001
Posts: 8,353

May 2, 2012 -- 10:37PM, rudolf wrote:

May 2, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Enigma256 wrote:

compare Preordain to Serum Visions , they are not functionally identical




Why the templating difference?  Why doesn't the Visions say Draw a Card, then Scry 2?  Or Why doesn't Preordain say:
Scry 2
Draw a Card
?


The default is to give keyworded abilities requiring reminder text their own line, complete with said reminder text. However, do that to Preordain and people are going to miss the "Draw a card" line because it's burried under a whack of italicized text.

(One thing that may be an additional factor here - at the time Serum Visions came out, the distinction between keyword abilities and keyword actions, though in practise it existed, wasn't yet formalized in the rulebook as it is now, so Scry was mostly treated the same as Flying for this purpose.)

Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:54PM #8
adeyke
  • Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 9,394
At the time Serum Visions was printed, scry was a keyword ability, which meant that it had to be printed on its own line (or on the same line as other keyword abilities, but that's not relevant here).

Later, scry was changed to a keyword action, which meant that it could be used as part of a spell ability.  Serum Visions was given errata to have a period after the "scry 2".  Preordain was printed with it as a keyword action.

As for why they didn't also change it to have just a single spell ability, joined with "then", I'm not sure.  Sometimes they'll join things together like that, sometimes they won't.  It's probably just a historical accident; Serum Visions originally needed to have two abilities, and they didn't bother changing it.
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 10:56PM #9
rudolf
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 16,229
Thanks for the explanations.
 
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1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 11:05PM #10
Zoidberg
Date Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 2,388

May 2, 2012 -- 10:37PM, rudolf wrote:

Or Why doesn't Preordain say:
Scry 2
Draw a Card
?


Because Scry 2 is functionnally different than look at top 3 then you may shuffle?

Rules question? Have you read the Basic rulebook already? No? Why not take some time to do that?

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