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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:13AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2006
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Ulvenwald Tracker  Ulvenwald Tracker question : Hi , I have a Ulvenwald Tracker that I was playing in the pre-release yesterday. Pretty cool card but I have a few rules related questions. The card specific rulings say : 5/1/2012 The second target may be a creature any player controls, including you. 5/1/2012 If either or both targets are illegal when Ulvenwald Tracker's ability tries to resolve, no creature will deal or be dealt damage. OK. I get the first ruling. That makes perfect sense to me. I'm having trouble with the second ruling. What is meant by an illegal target? Other than the obvious hexproof, shroud effects. Specifically, I would like to know if I could have a non-flying greature "Fight" a creature with flying ? Also, I'd like a ruling on a non-soulbound Flowering Lumberknot  . Can I use this creature to "Fight" even though it can't attack or block? I guess my question boils down to a definition of "Fight". Rules say "Each of those creatures deals damage equal to its power to the other creature", so I guess it's irrespective of flying or lack of ability to attack ? I would just like clarification that I am reading the rules correctly. Any help/advice would be great.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:21AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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for example if you kill the second creature before the ability resolves it is an illegal target
or as you said hexproof, shroud, protection or similar.
Flying, First Strike or Double Strike, Summoning Sickness or being able to attack have no effect on "Fight"
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:28AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
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I'm having trouble with the second ruling. What is meant by an illegal target? Other than the obvious hexproof, shroud effects.
Other than giving a creature shroud/hexproof in response, as you already suggested, the most usual cause for a target to become illegal is if it stops being there, i.e. if it gets sacrificed, bounced, destroyed, or otherwise removed from the battlefield before the Tracker's ability ersolves.
Specifically, I would like to know if I could have a non-flying greature "Fight" a creature with flying ?
Also, I'd like a ruling on a non-soulbound Flowering Lumberknot . Can I use this creature to "Fight" even though it can't attack or block?
Yes, and yes.
I guess my question boils down to a definition of "Fight".
For two creatures to "fight" simply means that those creatures deal damage equal to their power to each other. "Fighting" has absolutely nothing to do with combat as per the Magic rules, i.e. anything that would influence attacking or blocking is irrelevant. (*)
(*) Of course protection will still prevent "fighting" damage, but the Tracker can make a red creature "fight" a creature with protection from red, in which case the damage the red creature would deal is prevented.
DCI Lvl 2 Judge
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:29AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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protection from green however will stop the fight in this case, since the creature initiating the fight is green
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:31AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2009
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The Fight action is not combat, and has nothing to do with attacking or blocking. It's more akin to Spikeshot Elder  's ability, but with a "recoil" from the other creature. Combat-related abilities (flying, first strike, etc) don't work or change the way Fighting works. Damage-related ones (lifelink, deathtouch, wither) will still work, though. You listed the main case yourself: giving shroud or protection from green (the Tracker's color) to any of the two, or hexproof to your opponent's creature, means neither creature will damage the other. The other is if any of the creatures leave the battlefield. I can't think on any other way to make them illegal targets of the Tracker's ability.
[<o>]
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:37AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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What is meant by an illegal target? Other than the obvious hexproof, shroud effects.
protection as well
Specifically, I would like to know if I could have a non-flying greature "Fight" a creature with flying ?
yes. it says target creature, not target creature without flying
Also, I'd like a ruling on a non-soulbound Flowering Lumberknot . Can I use this creature to "Fight" even though it can't attack or block?
yes, fight has nothing to do with combat
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:40AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2006
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Great replies Guys, thanks. Interesting point about the protection issue. Since the source is green I could not target another creature with Protection from green but I could make a red creature fight another creature with protection from red but damage dealt to the protected creature would be negated and my fighting red creature may still take damage, correct ? I'm also loving the mechanic of making something fight itself !! Thanks again for the replies. I'm away to build my deck ...... now where did I put that Stuffy Doll  ?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:43AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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Great replies Guys, thanks. Interesting point about the protection issue. Since the source is green I could not target another creature with Protection from green but I could make a red creature fight another creature with protection from red but damage dealt to the protected creature would be negated and my fighting red creature may still take damage, correct ?
correct
I'm also loving the mechanic of making something fight itself !!
there was a better mechanic than fight before this set, too bad they did not use that template
Vein Drinker  is awesome with infect/wither or deathtouch
proud member of the 2011 community team
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 6:05AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 6:09AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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I can't think on any other way to make them illegal targets of the Tracker's ability.
Stealing  Ulvenwald Tracker 's first target.
«Dystocracy : A system of government in which corrupt leadership colludes with dishonest bankers and greedy elites in order to ensure that productive members of society –people who actually do useful work- bear the greatest share of taxes while gaining the least benefit possible.»
Sounds familiar?
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