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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 4:40PM
#291
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2012
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Having read through the entire thread in one sitting...I'm going to agree with JTI and Sleet.
Yes, WotC made a mistake with the special Helvaults, in that they did not declare that they existed before the event started. In all fairness, they should have announced that randomly selected stores would receive extra special Helvaults with premium contents that would not be given out at other stores, if only to keep people from being blindsided by this. It was dishonest, and is exactly the kind of mistake I expect them to make again and again.
On the otherhand, the sheer amount of rage strikes me as equally unfair. Some of the complaints aren't even WotC's fault. Stores inflating their prices because of the promotion is not Wizard's fault, that's the individual store owners skimming their own client base. If the store owner didn't open the Vault, that's the store owner's fault The idea that players were harmed by not being included in a .5% chance they didn't even know existed? That this is somehow a punishment or insult? To me that's just absurd. Wizards never made any promises about content, and of course they hyped it. It's their own product, and I'm sure they see plenty of extra sales on prerelease days, Helvault content or no Helvault content. On top of that, they tried to do something nice, a little suprise for some players, and now the community is outraged that they weren't the lucky ones? This wasn't predetermined in any way, it wasn't as if the Helvaults were allocated to specific stores because the owner is Richard Garfield's second cousin on his niece's side twice removed, but was randomly selected from large, popular stores that have contributed to the over all health of Magic. Ok, fine, you didn't find a Golden ticket with a chance to get into Wonka's chocolate factory, despite loyaly eating the same chocolate little Charlie did. So what? All this raving shows me is incentive for Wizards to not try more surprise bonuses in the future. I'd rather be able to try my luck next time then never be able to try it all, if its all the same with you.
I see people talking about living near three or four stores, how the little ones were harmed by the spoilers of the extra content, but how many communities really offer that inside any reasonable travelling distance? How many players are actually going to drive an extra hour and a half out of their way to go to a different store? Of the few stores that did lose business, how many were already suffering due being in the same area as a larger, more successful store? That's the way these things work. Similar businesses compete with each other, and generally the bigger one wins.
Did you go to the prerelease? Did you get the foil Spear? Did you engage in games of Magic with the intent of winning packs? Was the Helvault opened? If the answer is yes to all those questions, then you got exactly what you were promised, nothing more, nothing less.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 5:02PM
#292
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2008
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Great post!
Orzhova Witness Restarting Quotes Block
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Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 5:09PM
#293
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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The problem I see with them saying ahead of time that some Helvaults contain judge promos is that I imagine tons of stores would secretly ransack their Helvaults. I would have prefered "Some Helvaults have even more special contents" or something vague like that.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 5:29PM
#294
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2012
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The problem I see with them saying ahead of time that some Helvaults contain judge promos is that I imagine tons of stores would secretly ransack their Helvaults. I would have prefered "Some Helvaults have even more special contents" or something vague like that.
Yeah, ""Some Helvaults will have extra premium content" would have been fine with me as well.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 5:58PM
#295
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Stores inflating their prices because of the promotion is not Wizard's fault, that's the individual store owners skimming their own client base.
I don't see how this is (entirely) the individual stores fault. Neither the prerelease solicitation or the helvault instructions let stores know to not charge more for the promotion. It certainly seems like a reasonable assumption that the hyped, special, limited space event you have to preregister for is something you can, and probably should, charge more for. It would have been very easy for wizards to enforce some kind of pricing structure, but they decided not to (there are stories floating around about them telling stores to charge more for helvault events if the store thought they would be oversubscribed, but I don't really see any evidence of that). Wizards provided strong incentives for stores to charge more, and the reason not to charge more (that the helvaut was full of stuff with value of approximately 0) was not something that was easy to infer from any of the information they gave out. Setting up an environment with strong incentives to mark up the cost of the special version of an event and then acting shocked when stores respond to these incentives seems odd.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 6:14PM
#296
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2012
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Stores inflating their prices because of the promotion is not Wizard's fault, that's the individual store owners skimming their own client base.
I don't see how this is (entirely) the individual stores fault. Neither the prerelease solicitation or the helvault instructions let stores know to not charge more for the promotion. It certainly seems like a reasonable assumption that the hyped, special, limited space event you have to preregister for is something you can, and probably should, charge more for. It would have been very easy for wizards to enforce some kind of pricing structure, but they decided not to (there are stories floating around about them telling stores to charge more for helvault events if the store thought they would be oversubscribed, but I don't really see any evidence of that). Wizards provided strong incentives for stores to charge more, and the reason not to charge more (that the helvaut was full of stuff with value of approximately 0) was not something that was easy to infer from any of the information they gave out. Setting up an environment with strong incentives to mark up the cost of the special version of an event and then acting shocked when stores respond to these incentives seems odd.
AFAIK, Wizards does issue standard pricing guidelines, generally referred to as MSRP. They also give the stores a general idea of what should be charged for the events, based on what the prize pool should be. The fact that stores were neither charged for the Helvault nor told to charge more for the prerelease means that any extra charges or increases in the price were entirely at the store's discretion. Blaming it on the hype doesn't cut it; Wizards always hypes Prerelease, Release, and Game Day, usually with the promo card and whatever gimmick. (Picking sides in Mirrodin vs. Phyrexia, Humans vs. Monster for DKA, or the Helvault for AVR. These events are always preregistered, and hyped for a good month during spoiler season. If you do something that you aren't told to do, entirely of your own volition and for your own profit, you can't blame someone else for not telling you to not do it.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 6:24PM
#297
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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After this fiasco, though, I think Wizards could do well to send out an announcement to store-owners discouraging upcharging for prerelease events. Or even worse, threaten to decomission (or whatever they do) stores that are reported to outright scalp players.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 6:35PM
#298
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Stores inflating their prices because of the promotion is not Wizard's fault, that's the individual store owners skimming their own client base.
I don't see how this is (entirely) the individual stores fault. Neither the prerelease solicitation or the helvault instructions let stores know to not charge more for the promotion. It certainly seems like a reasonable assumption that the hyped, special, limited space event you have to preregister for is something you can, and probably should, charge more for. It would have been very easy for wizards to enforce some kind of pricing structure, but they decided not to (there are stories floating around about them telling stores to charge more for helvault events if the store thought they would be oversubscribed, but I don't really see any evidence of that). Wizards provided strong incentives for stores to charge more, and the reason not to charge more (that the helvaut was full of stuff with value of approximately 0) was not something that was easy to infer from any of the information they gave out. Setting up an environment with strong incentives to mark up the cost of the special version of an event and then acting shocked when stores respond to these incentives seems odd.
AFAIK, Wizards does issue standard pricing guidelines, generally referred to as MSRP. They also give the stores a general idea of what should be charged for the events, based on what the prize pool should be. The fact that stores were neither charged for the Helvault nor told to charge more for the prerelease means that any extra charges or increases in the price were entirely at the store's discretion. Blaming it on the hype doesn't cut it; Wizards always hypes Prerelease, Release, and Game Day, usually with the promo card and whatever gimmick. (Picking sides in Mirrodin vs. Phyrexia, Humans vs. Monster for DKA, or the Helvault for AVR. These events are always preregistered, and hyped for a good month during spoiler season. If you do something that you aren't told to do, entirely of your own volition and for your own profit, you can't blame someone else for not telling you to not do it.
The helvault events had (at least what was implied to be) a tangible increase in prize support, added additional logistic constraints and were a events with very limited space. All of these things distinguish it from previous promotions like Humans vs. Monsters, or picking sides. Pretty much all the documents about the prerelease are vague about the price (I actually can't find anything online with an MSRP for the event). When you set up a system that encourages people to do something you don't want them to do, and don't really make any kind of attempt to counter these incentives, you certainly share some of the responsibility when people do it. Charging like $5 extra for a limited space, special event with extra prizes isn't exactly unbelievably unreasonable store behavior, especially when wizards policy on event pricing has pretty much always been charge whatever you want.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 6:45PM
#299
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MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price.
It is just that: a suggestion. Stores are under no obligation to charge MSRP at all. They can charge more or less if they like.
That said, I am not familiar in the slightest with WotC's pricing rules and regulations for stores and events so I do not know whether there is another way that WotC is dictating specific prices to their stores. However that is dicy ground when it comes to price fixing and anti-competition laws so I wouldn't be suprised if the only price guidelines given to stores is the MSRP. Which, again, puts the store under no obligation to comply.
My nascent writing journal/blog can be found here.
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1 year ago ::
May 09, 2012 - 6:53PM
#300
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2012
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(Snipped for space)
The helvault events had (at least what was implied to be) a tangible increase in prize support, added additional logistic constraints and were a events with very limited space. All of these things distinguish it from previous promotions like Humans vs. Monsters, or picking sides. Pretty much all the documents about the prerelease are vague about the price (I actually can't find anything online with an MSRP for the event). When you set up a system that encourages people to do something you don't want them to do, and don't really make any kind of attempt to counter these incentives, you certainly share some of the responsibility when people do it. Charging like $5 extra for a limited space, special event with extra prizes isn't exactly unbelievably unreasonable store behavior, especially when wizards policy on event pricing has pretty much always been charge whatever you want.
The Helvault was never described as prizes, it was described as swag. In fact, the contents were accurately predicted here and other places to be the minor knick knacks that were given out in the vast majority of cases. Even in the handful of cases with Supervaults they weren't issued as prizes, but as bonus attendence gifts. There's also the fact that many stores didn't deviate from their usual prices for these events. So you have a handful that decided to tack up the price, many who didn't, and Wizards acting the way Wizards has always acted. When only one part of a group starts acting differently, it tends to be for reasons of their own.
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