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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 7:34AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
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I like the oversized legends. Admittedly, I got lucky and got Avacyn, and pulled a normal Avacyn too, but they're fun and I can use them for desk decoration if nothing else. Here's what I feel should be done differently next time you do something like this (Which you should, because it was fun 
- NOT tied foilness to the other special stuff.
- Had something playable in every vault, ranging from the ridiculous stuff they did have down to commons out of the junk drawer. Or maybe full-art lands. Everyone loves those.
- Distributed them FULLY randomly, not randomly among a subset.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 7:40AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2009
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I went to two Helvault pre-releases this past weekend and I did greatly enjoy playing Avacyn Restored. The set was well designed for limited, albeit slightly swingy with the miracle cards. I ran into many situations where I should have lost, but because I top-decked Entreat the Angels or Revenge of the Hunted I ended up winning a game I probably would have lost.
When it comes to the prizes in the Helvault, as others have said it was slightly disappointing. I think the major flaw in WoTC's plan was that they made such a huge deal out of it. I read about the contents on MTGS before the actual pre-release and was not impressed. The spin-down and the tokens are cool in the way that they might be used, but the Commander promo was basically useless. I don't play EDH and all of the friends I have who do play EDH weren't interested in this, because they don't use oversized cards to play. With so many ways to put your commander in your hand, library, etc it is akward to have an oversized card in the deck when it is anywhere beside the command zone or the battlefield.
Barring the slight letdown in the commander card, I still wanted to play with this set and had fun doing so. I was honestly okay with the Helvault contents and it didn't deter me from playing at multiple pre-releases. This was of course until I found out that there were premium Helvaults. The vast differences in the prizes between the normal and premium Helvaults, and the infrequency with which the premium ones were given out is ridiculous. When I open a booster pack of MTG cards I know there is a small chance I will pull something that has decent financial value. I take that risk, but I know the odds are small and it's a loterry of sorts. However, the fact that WoTC hyped up the Helvault so much before the pre-release and then ommited the fact that some were better than others really has caused a stir in the magic community. When one magic player leaves the pre-release with an unplayable commander card, some tokens, and a spin-down which may have been worth $6 all together and the other leaves with a Foil Commander card, foil tokens, a spin-down, and a Judge Foil Demonic Tutor (total worth of all of it about $200+) that is quite the imbalance. Not only do these players benefit from getting an extremely valueable Judge promo, they also get tokens and commander cards that are going to be worth much more due to scarcity. People have already sold 1x Foil Angel/Demon token on ebay for $50!
With so much animosity over the loss of Player's rewards, the loss of mythic rares as pre-release cards, and the overral dissatisfaction with the promo's that have been given out at FnM (Dismember aside). The Helvault promo was handled poorly and I hope WoTC learns from their mistakes.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 7:42AM
#43
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- with a lance and a windmill to tilt
Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2002
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I'll get straight to the point. The folks who came up with this plan and implementation are out of touch with the Magic community as a whole. The sad part, is that this plan had to be vetted ... And NO ONE in that chain stood up and spoke for the community, smaller stores, or even the judges who would ultimately be negatively impacted by this poorly conceived marketing program. NO ONE.
Once again, WotC proves that the people making marketing decisons have all the power in the company. Marketing > Everyone else.
This promotion was bad enough, and this mea culpa attempt of an article didn't help. You know what would have helped? If the group writing this article, note that no one person had the integrity to put their name to it, had used the word "sorry" anywhere in the text. I think the Magic community as a whole deserve an apology for the over hyping of this promotion, the judges deserve an apology for the break in faith from WotC in distributing their foils outside the intended rewards program, and as much as anyone, the smaller stores who were simply excluded from a big part of this event, simply because of their location or size.
I'd probably have felt a lot better about the whole thing if someone would have owned up to this and said they were sorry about how it turned out for 99% of the people who attended this pre-release. But, instead we got this article full of excuses and promises to learn lessons they're afraid to even mention.
Accountibility is obviously not a core competency of WotC,and that saddens me more than this one single event.
Later,
Don!
A failure to plan, is a plan to fail.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 8:30AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2011
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I don't think most players are really mad that they weren't given super-valuable cards for free, rather, they're mad that this was hyped up to be a really exciting a event, where you had to complete achievements to unlock some sort of exciting prize... and the exciting prize turned out to be the same boring promo stuff we normally get.
If you're going to hype something up, it should live up to the hype.
I was looking forward to there being something new or interesting the Helvault. I don't know... Full-art versions of the ISD lands? Exclusive alternate-art versions of some useful commons or uncommons from the set? Something other than the same sort of tokens/dice we already have too many of plus some oversized cards no one uses. I mean have you guys ever actually played Commander? Those games sprawl. Who has that much table space for gimmicky double-sized cards? And with all the Spell Crumple / Evacuation effects in the format, I can't even use my oversized Gisela for a Commander unless I pull a normal-sized one too.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 8:39AM
#45
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So this topic has kind of been beat to death already, however I have a few other points to add in:
1) Incentivized playing in more prerelease under the false pretense that you could get better promos:
I normally try and go to a prerelease (assuming I have friends who are going) but was incentivized to play in more than one by the chance of getting "rare" goods in the helvault, as at the time I was unware of the promotion only being sent to top-tier stores. The first helvault was a let down, but getting the spin down and some tokens was kind of cool. However, the second helvault was very discouraging as the marginal value of these items was very low. The second prerelease lost all sense of wonder after the helvault opened and actually made the event itself dissapointing in comparison.
2) The prize disparity encourages people to ONLY play at top-tier tournament sites:
If I had known that these prizes were only possible at a different event site, you better believe I would change my normal location at a shot at a $100 judge promo and some foil tokens / oversized cards that are bound to be worth money due to scarcity. This information was not released before the prerelease so it didn't really have an effect on smaller store's events, but if I am going to attend another prerelease, do I really want to risk missing out by going to the smaller local game store, or would I go to the larger top-tier store (since I will be spending the same amount either way) just in case they have another promotion? So while it may not have hurt stores initially since it wasn't originally announced (to my knowledge), this may have a residual effect that can be seen in future events.
3) Judge promos being given out to non-judges at a "limited ammount"
I like the part in the article where they try and mitigate the anger of the Judge community by saying they "are very sensitive to how judge cards are distributed, and these were released in extremely small quantities." I still know plenty of judges who were not pleased to see this, especially since a lot of L1s believe that they aren't given enough rewards themselves. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it still caused a rift in the judging community, the people who help keep these events running smoothly. At a minimum (as there were apparently 12 different promos released at 30 different events) that means a minimum of 108 of each promo was given out with 162 given out of half of the promos (this is assuming that each promo was given out a minimum of two times and that some promos weren't given out once while others went out four times). This giveaway totaled 1620 more judge promos given out to non-judges; while promos are loved by all, I think different promos would have been more appropriate.
To conclude my points: There is a strong chance I would not have attended more than one prerelease with the knowledge that I had zero chance of receiving a better promo, which I am certain is why WotC announced the event. I understand that WotC is trying to encourage more participation, they are a company trying to make a profit, but the best way to make a profit is satisfying your customers which in my opinion, in regards to this event, would mean to actually randomize the Helvaults, provide better prizes in the standard Helvault as well as lesser prizes in the premium (while still making them good enough that I want to play in more than one event), and increasing the number of premium Helvaults from 0.5% to maybe 10% or so. There are plenty of FNM and Textless cards that would have still been great prizes but wouldn't have caused such a disparity in prizes as compared to judge promo Demonic Tutors. While the costs may increase slightly by having more premium Helvaults, you will greatly improve relations with the community which in turn will generate a higher profit. Another idea for distribution is reward sites who intend on holding multiple prereleases one premium Helvault (regardless of the number of events they hold) which will encourage players to play in multiple events to get a shot at the premium Helvault since they know that one of them will hold the better promos. I realize there is a flaw in the plan, that if the premium Helvault is opened first then players may stop registering for the future events, but players who are there to play the new set will do so either way and those who want a chance at the premium Helvault will either be satisfied, go to another location to try and be a part of their premium, or content with their prize, play in the next prerelease anyway. It isn't a perfect plan, but I believe it would improve the community morale so that there isn't so much hostility after an event. I love the idea of promotional events for prereleases, it adds excitement and mystery to the day, but when it is poorly executed (like I feel the Helvault event was) it can have the opposite of the intended effect.
Thank you for reading my concerns, hopefully they will be taken into consideration for future events!
- Alex
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 9:36AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2009
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Clearly, oversized cards are best left in our Magic Player Rewards envelopes.
I sincerely miss this program 
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 9:57AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2005
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When I first heard about the extra promos that were randomly inserted into Helvaults, I didn't actually mind it terribly. It's like a booster pack, sometimes I get a Lunar Mystic but my friend gets an Avacyn. That's just the way things go sometimes. Our store didn't open anything "extra" but I got a neat spin down in a color I didn't have yet. I still walked away happy, even if I couldn't use everything I got.
Then you came out with this article and I got more annoyed. Before, I was opening the same thing as everyone else and had an equal chance. Except I wasn't. My chances dropped from 1 in 200 (which is much lower ratio than I might have hoped), to actually 0 in 0; all because I didn't go to the right store. To go back to my analogy, I wasn't even opening the same booster pack as someone else anymore. You made it worse for me by telling me EXACTLY how passed over I got for this.
I don't mind that there was different contents in the vaults, what I mind is that there wasn't an equal chance everywhere. Think about how much more memorable it would have been for a smaller venue store to open up those cards, it would have created in them a lasting impression; instead they get another reminder that they are in the "big leagues."
I stand behind some other in saying that it would have been nice if every Helvault had included something specail but to varying degrees. I might not have mided others opening Judge Foils if my vault had included the foil tokens.
If nothing else though, I applaud you for trying something new (one if my biggest regreats was being overseas last year and not being able to participate in the Mirrodin vs Phyrexia prerelease), and I do know that you guys take feedback seriously and try and learn from your mistakes.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 10:17AM
#48
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Why do people keep saying this event was free (the price of a 'normal' sealed event)? Hundreds, and more likely thousands, of stores charged players between $5.00 and $20.00 extra to play in this event, earning between $270.00 and $1,080.00 for each pod of 54 (assuming they all filled).
It's too bad Wizards can't prevent stores from charging players extra for events like this, as a big reason why I felt cheated was the cost of entry in the event relative to the value of the rewards/experience.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 10:29AM
#49
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I thought this was supposed to be a discussion of the deck Boblin Burn. Instead it has turned into a bitchfest of how people got "wronged" by Wizards...Anyone really want to discuss the deck? I would really like to know what players would use as sideboard options.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 10:30AM
#50
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*Goblin Burn-my bad.
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