@Kensan Oni Yes, I get the concept you're explaining (thanks for calling me stupid, as I said before, it's a great way to convince someone of your argument), but I'm not convinced that the card pool would always shrink to the low point that it does for Standard. In STD environments over the last few years they seem to be dominated by just a few deck types, sometimes as small as 1 or 2 decks. It hasn't always been that way.
It's certainly not that way for Modern of Legacy. Yes, the number of playable cards is small compared to the number of cards available, but the deck lists are still diverse which means that no particular deck is absolutely dominant. That last part is key. No particular deck is dominant.
I am presuming that is the playablitity of cards were raised then no 1 deck would be dominant in STD and would lead to a more diverse environment.
Now, you can disagree with my presumption all you want, but you really don't have any true evidence to support it because we don't really know if it can happen at all.
Going to private school hardly makes one stupid. It changes the experience you have. Hence the comparison. ..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" /> I disagree on you on principle, and based on recorded evidence of Tournament Results. The wider the format, the less chance there is for room for new decks, as older decks are established on a stronger curve, with a different conceptual balance in mind. Now, Legacy has been changing over the last few years, but even so, a quick look at SCG archives or the MTGO Daily results show that the same decks have been winning this season pretty consistently. ..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" /> However, at the same time, I say the environment you want to play in is here *right* now, and you can't see it because of public perception of what is best. There are a huge number of playable cards right now, but people reject them because they look to the deck lists to show which is the strongest. This problem, by the way, has existed for years and years.
You want to play G/W creature control, Arachanus Spinner is there waiting for you with Spider Spawning, Oblivion Ring, Arachanus Web, and Overrun. You want to race? There are plenty of decks ready for it? Burn? Counters? Poison? They're all there. They pop up and surprise tournament results on a weekly basis. The only thing that is stopping it from happening is public perception and the masses of the same deck being played.
So if you want to see the environment change, you need to take action and play new decks and prove that they can win. The playables are here right now. It just is no one is looking for them.
Guys, forget everything else that has been said in this thread. Consider a single example.
Everyone agrees that the Legacy format is diverse. You can play mono-red burn, you can play traditional control, you can play Merfolk, you can play combo or even Martyr of Sands lifegain, whatever floats your boat. Legacy thrives because the massive card pool lends it a lot of diversity.
No one plays Farmstead. Not even the jankiest casual lifegain deck would consider Farmstead. If Farmstead was removed from the card pool entirely, no one would care (except the uber-Johnnies who build decks specifically to play these cards, but they can play with One with Nothing or something).
Now consider the fact that at least 25 percent of the Legacy card pool is just as unplayable as Farmstead.
Squire . Hidden Path . Joven's Tools . These cards are worth nothing to anyone. They might as well not exist. If we were to take these 3000-odd cards out of the Legacy card pool, the metagame would be completely unchanged.
What we want is for Wizards not to print these cards.
Think of how Neo couldn't beat the robots, but they kept him around anyways to defeat Agent Smith. Sure, the robots might not like having a Neo running rampant because instead of playing their favorite 4 drop fatty robot, they have to play a bunch of one mana Matrixs to contain him, but at least Neo keeps Agent Smith from reanimating an Iona on turn two.
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.
I mean, In KevinWorld, Mark is reading the very words I'm typing as well. Heck, in KevinWorld maybe I am Mark.
[In response to a thread about how hard grading is]
Upon reading this, I've found myself completely unable to operate in the world. I tried to decide what to eat for breakfast, and pondered the vast consequences of my choice. How do I balance my dietary needs against my desire to eat good-tasting food? Should I factor in how long it takes to prepare? Cereal is ready in moments, but bacon takes longer to cook.
Then there is the impact on other industries. Do people in the cereal industry deserve to be employed more than people in the bacon industry? Which industry should I support? I don't even have the data regarding HOW MUCH the cereal industry benefits from me eating a bowl of cereal, or how much the bacon industry benefits from me eating a side of bacon. How can I compare two qualities I can't even quantify?
And let's not forget the milk on the cereal. In addition to determining whether or not milk is healthy for me, how much that benefits the milk industry, and how much the people in the milk industry deserve my support, we have to factor in the fact that cows are put under brutal conditions in order to collect thier milk. Of course, the same goes for the pigs, and then they get killed. Of course, I really like bacon. So I need to come up with a scale that compares the value of cow happiness to pig happiness to my happiness. What trade-offs am I willing to make here? Does the fact that the pig gets put out of its misery count as a plus or a minus? Isn't bacon bad for me anyway?
Deciding what to eat for breakfast (or any meal) is impossible. Help me!
Anyway, you'd be surprised about Time Stop. When I first saw that card as a relatively new player I didn't see its full potential until I read the reminder text. Is it that unintuitive, though? Mine I mean. What is possibility? Is it possible for me to type these words with my tusks? No, because I don't have tusks. Although I am now tempted to go buy some - obviously not from poachers or whatever - and use them as typing apparatus. I could be the best secretary ever. "What's your words per minute sir?" "Well, only six, but I use these tusks to type them." "You're hired!" That was the interview. And is anyone else disappointed that "apparati" is not the plural form of apparatus? I just could strangle a dictionary, because "apparatuses" is a real word. I guess it sounds pretty cool. I'll call them my Apparatusks.
What we want is for Wizards not to print these cards.
Or to make them better. They made squire cost one (sanctuary cat ) which almost makes me not hate it.
I think they need to tweak some of the cards that they do print as opposed to changing the cards they print. I already mentioned how mindless null could have been so much better as a 3/2, but for more examples, print a card like Praetor's Counsel as a cost of 4 or 5 instead of 8. Yes, it sounds broken, but it's in the block right before graveyard tactics and nerfers. It wouldn't be quite as broken, but it would be playable and lend itself to possible combo decks. The same could be said of archangel's light (maybe). Cost it at four and maybe there's a self mill combo deck that could come out of that card.
...Praetor's Counsel as a cost of 4 or 5 instead of 8. Yes, it sounds broken, but it's in the block right before graveyard tactics and nerfers. It wouldn't be quite as broken, but it would be playable and lend itself to possible combo decks. The same could be said of archangel's light (maybe). Cost it at four and maybe there's a self mill combo deck that could come out of that card.
Don't forget that formats like Commander exist, where high-cost cards that are normally terrible in Constructed – such as Time Stretch – are really good. For this reason, it is probably a bad idea to make those cards too cheap. But there's still a huge portion of cards, like Holy Justiciar , that are just disappointingly bad in every format.
Think of how Neo couldn't beat the robots, but they kept him around anyways to defeat Agent Smith. Sure, the robots might not like having a Neo running rampant because instead of playing their favorite 4 drop fatty robot, they have to play a bunch of one mana Matrixs to contain him, but at least Neo keeps Agent Smith from reanimating an Iona on turn two.
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.
I mean, In KevinWorld, Mark is reading the very words I'm typing as well. Heck, in KevinWorld maybe I am Mark.
[In response to a thread about how hard grading is]
Upon reading this, I've found myself completely unable to operate in the world. I tried to decide what to eat for breakfast, and pondered the vast consequences of my choice. How do I balance my dietary needs against my desire to eat good-tasting food? Should I factor in how long it takes to prepare? Cereal is ready in moments, but bacon takes longer to cook.
Then there is the impact on other industries. Do people in the cereal industry deserve to be employed more than people in the bacon industry? Which industry should I support? I don't even have the data regarding HOW MUCH the cereal industry benefits from me eating a bowl of cereal, or how much the bacon industry benefits from me eating a side of bacon. How can I compare two qualities I can't even quantify?
And let's not forget the milk on the cereal. In addition to determining whether or not milk is healthy for me, how much that benefits the milk industry, and how much the people in the milk industry deserve my support, we have to factor in the fact that cows are put under brutal conditions in order to collect thier milk. Of course, the same goes for the pigs, and then they get killed. Of course, I really like bacon. So I need to come up with a scale that compares the value of cow happiness to pig happiness to my happiness. What trade-offs am I willing to make here? Does the fact that the pig gets put out of its misery count as a plus or a minus? Isn't bacon bad for me anyway?
Deciding what to eat for breakfast (or any meal) is impossible. Help me!
Anyway, you'd be surprised about Time Stop. When I first saw that card as a relatively new player I didn't see its full potential until I read the reminder text. Is it that unintuitive, though? Mine I mean. What is possibility? Is it possible for me to type these words with my tusks? No, because I don't have tusks. Although I am now tempted to go buy some - obviously not from poachers or whatever - and use them as typing apparatus. I could be the best secretary ever. "What's your words per minute sir?" "Well, only six, but I use these tusks to type them." "You're hired!" That was the interview. And is anyone else disappointed that "apparati" is not the plural form of apparatus? I just could strangle a dictionary, because "apparatuses" is a real word. I guess it sounds pretty cool. I'll call them my Apparatusks.
The U.S. Army: The best job in the world, working with some of the best people in the world, for one of the worst employers you could ever imagine.
Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!
Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.
But there's still a huge portion of cards, like Holy Justiciar , that are just disappointingly bad in every format.
Imagecrafter does not like what you have to say about his new girlfriend.
Because UWW5 is so much better than W? It's called Swords to Plowshares. EDIT: @ chin I don't think there's any format where a 4-5 cost Praetor's would be that broken. Remember that you still have to load your GY with tons good cards to return.
However, at the same time, I say the environment you want to play in is here *right* now, and you can't see it because of public perception of what is best. There are a huge number of playable cards right now, but people reject them because they look to the deck lists to show which is the strongest. This problem, by the way, has existed for years and years.
You want to play G/W creature control, Arachanus Spinner is there waiting for you with Spider Spawning, Oblivion Ring, Arachanus Web, and Overrun. You want to race? There are plenty of decks ready for it? Burn? Counters? Poison? They're all there. They pop up and surprise tournament results on a weekly basis. The only thing that is stopping it from happening is public perception and the masses of the same deck being played.
So if you want to see the environment change, you need to take action and play new decks and prove that they can win. The playables are here right now. It just is no one is looking for them.
This is partly true. There was a Kuldotha Phoenix/Liquimetal Coating/Ancient Grudge deck in one of the Top8 States decklists a while back. These hidden gems are part of the reason why I keep playing standard; my "rogue" (i.e., non-copycat) decks occasionally win matches. Public perception absolutely influences what is considered "good".
But I don't care so much what the Spike Drones consider good; they can play Delver one week and Undying Pod the next. They don't care about buliding decks; they just want to buy what wins without thinking about it. That's a little lame, but it is what it is and as you've said, there will always be players like that. No, the point is, I want more options to pick from; more solid cards like Overrun and fewer crap cards like Relic Putrescence. Even if you widen the definition of what's "playable" to be objective/quantitative rather than perceptual, Wizards could still do a lot better.
Open-minded deckbuilding philosophy notwithstanding, I bring home far too much chaff from packs and limited events. I put these away in a separate box and rarely look at them again. Just for illustration, let's grab a random sample from my jank box: Rotted Hystrix - Can block in Limited, then you put him away forever. Make it a 3/7 or 3/8 and somebody might run him as a wall. But they'd probably prefer something better. Greenhilt Trainee - Blows. Make it a 3/3 and Elf decks might run it. (But probably wouldn't.) Vastwood Gorger - Questionable pick in Limited, then you put him away forever. That would change if you made it a 5/5 trample.
This is wasteful. There is no excuse for printing cards that are just meant to fill space and make draft picks easier. I don't care if it makes Limited a little less daunting; it's a waste of a card. (Don't even get me started on the "marketing" cards in booster packs that don't even have a token on one side.) And I know some here will lecture me about the realities of business and marketing; to those people I ask, do you really think Wizards would tank without all this filler? We're marketed to plenty already. And we don't need any purposefully janky cards. There are enough accidentally janky cards. In one of their articles, Wizards admits that the Odyssey shrines were supposed to be decent in multiplayer formats, but they goofed.
