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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 3:11PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2007
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TL;DR version of the below rant: Wizard could afford to make sets more balanced. This would bring more creativity to the game as more cards (two or three times as many) became viable in Standard tournaments.
Something about my many boxes of Magic cards has been bugging me for a long, long time: The sheer quantity of them. Specifically, the sheer number of cards that I play once at Limited events and then put away forever. Not because I don't like them, but because they aren't broken enough to bring to FNM.
As a hardcore deckbuilder from the old school (I started around Revised), I refuse to net-deck. It costs me wins, sure, but I would rather win once in a while with my deck then win every other week with somebody else's.
Does anyone else remember Magic before the web? (Or at least, before the web was ubiquitous?) Players, for the most part, came up with their own decks or built around rough archetypes (e.g. Goblins) rather than copy them card-for-card off of Top 8 Decklists (e.g., Bant Pod). Or how about FNM? It was initally sold as a casual-oriented, new-player-friendly event aimed at recruitment, fun, and trying out deck ideas. At my local shop, it's the most competitive event of the week. I admire the heroic newcomers who come back for more after their homegrown mill deck get its ass handed to it by Frights or Black-White Spirits.
But "If you can't beat 'em" just never worked for me, nor does it for many old-schoolers (and I know you're out there) who grew up with this game and enjoy it as a creative outlet. Is building your deck half (or more) of the fun for you? Do you play exclusively casual with friends, not because you're a bad player, but because you're disgusted with Standard play? Or do you refuse to give up, returning week after week with original decks, occasionally hitting the top 8 (and pissing off the Spike Drones who asked to see half of your cards when they hit the table because they forgot what they did?)
Good. My question for you, then, is: Does it really need to be this way?
Mark Rosewater wrote a column a number of years ago called "When Card Go Bad" that attempts to address the "bad cards" issue, which is synonymous with "not enough good cards". He expressly admits that most cards don't see standard play, insisting that it's necessary for the health of the game. Are you kidding me?
I can refute "When Cards Go Bad" point-by-point, and maybe I will if this thread gets any support. But for now, let's discuss: Shouldn't we be seeing more cards in standard? Is a set really just built for disposable Limited decks, from which you might put two or three cards into your "real" deck?
Chime in, fellow Johnnies. I know you're reading.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 3:21PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2011
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The standard environment is already quite diverse with many established archetypes and lots of stuff being viable besides it. Or at least, let's just get that comment out of the way so it can rest in peace not knowing it entirely misses your point. I certainly agree with you on most of the points you've made; for me, the earliest jumps were the best too, and my local shop had the good fortune of being more of an after-school let's play the game we love place and didn't host that many tournaments, which definitely stimulated the casual "let's see what you've got" environment. Its heartbreaking to hear that it must have been a rare exception compared to the average sharply-pointed net-grinding tournament events. I hate strictly better, means I got no reason to get the 'worser' card to work 
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 3:32PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2012
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I don't understand why useless or "too-niche" cards exist in such great quantity. Isn't the point for every card to have its place in a deck, for its abilities to synergize well with other cards released that could fit into the deck, and for all of these cards to be good enough to make the deck playable in even FNM? I think that of course there are going to be a few useless cards, but there should never just be filler cards in a set that are supposed to be useless. I wouldn't mind if R&D and WotC released slower, longer sets for standard, as long as the sets are of Better quality. Look at Innistrad release.
It had a ton of useful cards that fit into the many existing archetypes quite well. Dark Ascension comes along, has a few more useless junk fillers, but continues to commit to the already established block Archetypes. AVR comes in and **** all over the game plan by releasing a TON of filler, in every color. Even white got screwed over because it now has a lot of REALLY high cost cards, that, frankly, aren't all that good.
The point is that less filler more killer would be nice to have, even if it took WotC longer to produce said sets. Standard will easily survive the slower release dates, because everyone will continue to play whatever deck they feel best with, and continue to try to win. This is made infinitely easier by the fact that there wouldn't be just 6 or so good cards in an archetype, which means that the field of play would significantly diversify.
just my opinion though.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 3:55PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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I don't understand why useless or "too-niche" cards exist in such great quantity. Isn't the point for every card to have its place in a deck, for its abilities to synergize well with other cards released that could fit into the deck
... Yes, but many cards exist only to be played in Limited. Making each Limited environment diverse means lots of stuff sees print that won't ever be in a constructed tourney. And then there's cards whose place is in casual combo decks that also wouldn't stand a chance in an FNM, but are still lots of fun to play.
If every card was designed to be FNM-worthy, you'd turn off a lot of customers, and you'd see the same reprints over and over and over because e.g. they can't print set-mechanic-bolt and make it strong when bolt is already in standard..
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 4:28PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2012
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I don't understand why useless or "too-niche" cards exist in such great quantity. Isn't the point for every card to have its place in a deck, for its abilities to synergize well with other cards released that could fit into the deck
... Yes, but many cards exist only to be played in Limited. Making each Limited environment diverse means lots of stuff sees print that won't ever be in a constructed tourney. And then there's cards whose place is in casual combo decks that also wouldn't stand a chance in an FNM, but are still lots of fun to play.
If every card was designed to be FNM-worthy, you'd turn off a lot of customers, and you'd see the same reprints over and over and over because e.g. they can't print set-mechanic-bolt and make it strong when bolt is already in standard..
I suppose thats true, but even so, there has to be a better solution.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 5:31PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2008
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Cards need to be split from good to bad, to both teach new players what a bad card is, and to make limited evironments balanced and fun. Also the harder good cards are to get, the more money they make.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 5:35PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2010
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As a Johnny-Spike, I think that every card should be viable in Constructed, even the commons. Realistically, I understand that some cards have to be depowered for Limited, but crap like Defensive Stance  could easily give -4/+4 and see niche play.
Embrace imagination.
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Each of its nine tails is imbued with supernatural power, and it can live for a thousand years.
My Standard deck: Setting SunThink of how Neo couldn't beat the robots, but they kept him around anyways to defeat Agent Smith. Sure, the robots might not like having a Neo running rampant because instead of playing their favorite 4 drop fatty robot, they have to play a bunch of one mana Matrixs to contain him, but at least Neo keeps Agent Smith from reanimating an Iona on turn two.
Are you saying I'm trying to blame my loss on something? I don't care that I lost, I care that he's a sore loser, and a cheater, and a liar.
CKY, are you bad at anything?
I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.
I mean, In KevinWorld, Mark is reading the very words I'm typing as well. Heck, in KevinWorld maybe I am Mark.
I'm beginning to think CKY may be anime in real life...
Don't go anywhere CKY, I need to crash dramatically through your window and propose marriage and I don't want you throwing off my paradrop.
[In response to a thread about how hard grading is]
Upon reading this, I've found myself completely unable to operate in the world. I tried to decide what to eat for breakfast, and pondered the vast consequences of my choice. How do I balance my dietary needs against my desire to eat good-tasting food? Should I factor in how long it takes to prepare? Cereal is ready in moments, but bacon takes longer to cook.
Then there is the impact on other industries. Do people in the cereal industry deserve to be employed more than people in the bacon industry? Which industry should I support? I don't even have the data regarding HOW MUCH the cereal industry benefits from me eating a bowl of cereal, or how much the bacon industry benefits from me eating a side of bacon. How can I compare two qualities I can't even quantify?
And let's not forget the milk on the cereal. In addition to determining whether or not milk is healthy for me, how much that benefits the milk industry, and how much the people in the milk industry deserve my support, we have to factor in the fact that cows are put under brutal conditions in order to collect thier milk. Of course, the same goes for the pigs, and then they get killed. Of course, I really like bacon. So I need to come up with a scale that compares the value of cow happiness to pig happiness to my happiness. What trade-offs am I willing to make here? Does the fact that the pig gets put out of its misery count as a plus or a minus? Isn't bacon bad for me anyway?
Deciding what to eat for breakfast (or any meal) is impossible. Help me!
I must admit chinkeeyong, you have the most interesting character ideas; and you play them well.
Anyway, you'd be surprised about Time Stop. When I first saw that card as a relatively new player I didn't see its full potential until I read the reminder text. Is it that unintuitive, though? Mine I mean. What is possibility? Is it possible for me to type these words with my tusks? No, because I don't have tusks. Although I am now tempted to go buy some - obviously not from poachers or whatever - and use them as typing apparatus. I could be the best secretary ever. "What's your words per minute sir?" "Well, only six, but I use these tusks to type them." "You're hired!" That was the interview. And is anyone else disappointed that "apparati" is not the plural form of apparatus? I just could strangle a dictionary, because "apparatuses" is a real word. I guess it sounds pretty cool. I'll call them my Apparatusks.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 5:46PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2008
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As a Johnny-Spike, I think that every card should be viable in Constructed, even the commons. Realistically, I understand that some cards have to be depowered for Limited, but crap like Defensive Stance could easily give -4/+4 and see niche play.
I love bad cards, if they didn't exist I'd quit magic.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 6:28PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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The issue is they have to make cards for competitive Constructed, casual Constructed and Limited. Could Wizards design a freaking amazing competitive Constructed set where a majority of the cards are playable and none are broken? With enough testing, sure, they could. But the problem here is Limited is going to suck because everthing will be so unbalanced. If they focus on casual Constructed instead, and then move the mana costs up and down until every card has virtually the same competitive Constructed power level, Limited would still suck because every deck would be aggro and the complicated cards that require specific decks (which is fine in Constructed formats) would be trash and everyone would be throwing around nothing but efficiently-costed French vanillas.
Plus, bad cards allow newbies to make decks with what they have and gradually improve their decks when they get more good cards. Not only do some players (like myself) find this fun, it also means more money for Wizards. They are a business; we don't have to demonize them considering this money pays for the people who make this game as good as it is.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 25, 2012 - 6:35PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2010
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I haven't played FNM constructed since Timespiral/Lorwyn, and all I recall is my core reprints deck steamrolling the whole day through. Unless the game's got a lot dumber, I don't think netdecking is that big an issue. People are hive-minded. Buzz decks are propagated by hype, as Solar Flare gives way to Delver. It's a cycle that occurs over and over again, as fledgling deck builders give way to the paradigms that subsume their deckbuilding experience, pigeon-holing them to follow trends.
I've played since the tail-end of Legends, and it's always been fun.
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