No, you shouldn't use both line breaks and indents. That's a bit double. I suggest losing the indents.
I think I understand what went wrong with AVR. Now, before I explain my theory, please note that there is nothing really wrong with AVR itself, it really has more to do with its connection to the rest of Innistrad. I think what happened here was that, as previously stated, they were making the third set of the year stand alone and leaving Innistrad with two sets to work with. At some point in time, they decided that this plan was not going to work out for whatever reason. So, being as for into design/development as they were, they decided that, instead of scrapping the idea for the stand alone set, they would simply incorporate it into Innistrad.
The stand alone set must have originally been some sort of angels vs. demons set (note:neither of which is very prevalent in gothic horror, but the latter makes a bit more sense), so when they tried to combine the two (each of which already having some sort of story of its own) they immediately noticed that flavorfully, this was not going to work. Knowing that they were too pressed for time to make a real third set for the original Innistrad story, they realized they would have to unfortunately settle for a dramatically less flavorfully third act to the flavor effusion of Innistrad. To keep from players seeing this set as a complete failure, they had to place as many flashy elements into the set as possible. Things such as vexing devil, a 2cmc p-walker, and time walk 2.0 were ment to draw attention away from things such as the lack of a legendary werewolf, zero story completion for sorin, Garruk, and somewhat liliana, and a comeplete rejection of graveyard centered ideas (save for a couple of cards).
I beleive AVR has found itself flavorfully and mechanically confused and torn between what it was to be and what it was made to be. Odds are, many of the cards in AVR that are being complained about were designed prior to the conversion of Angels vs. Demons into Gothic horror no more Innistrad. Frankly, I bet Avacyn wasn't even originally a part of Innistrad, but was simply a pretty creative way to deepen Innistrad's story while setting up or the link to AVR.
If I may say one thing to Wizards: I know it must have been very difficult to even get the two completely different ideas as connected as you did and I applaud you for your effort (given my theory is correct), but NEVER allow this to happen again. I'm sure AVR will remain very successful based off of card sales, but know that it has nearly shattered the love for Innistrad that so many players held when it came out last fall. The story has resulted in endless confusion and anticlimactic endings. If you are going to try to mess with block structures, be 110% sure that you know the end result is what you AND the players want and like.
We may only hope that RTR doesn't fall to a similar fate.
I think what happened here was that, as previously stated, they were making the third set of the year stand alone and leaving Innistrad with two sets to work with. At some point in time, they decided that this plan was not going to work out for whatever reason.
I'd imagine the reason they had to change it was because, at that point, they'd finally started getting the feedback for Rise of Eldrazi, and realized that people didn't LIKE disconnected third sets.
Your theory does seem likely. Hopefully, going forward, when next they do this Large-Small-Large they'll actually make it connected from the very beginning. Taking two disparate concepts and jamming them together doesn't really work.
It actually looked really nice with the indents, Leo-tech. You were just making the rest of us look bad. The third way is fine.
Free MTGO Tournaments you should be playing: Pauper (all commons) - Tuesday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Peasant (Pauper + 5 uncommons, with paper rarity) - Sunday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Silverblack (Modern-era Commons and Uncommons - Most Wednesday nights, prizes by MTGO Bazaar Heirloom ("Cheap" cards only, e.g. rares under 20 cents) - Sunday afternoons, sponsored by MTGOTraders Check the superbly-made Gatherling site for more.
Other games you should try: Spectromancer - Online card game by Richard Garfield, available cheap on Steam. DC Universe Online - action-based MMO. Free to play. Surprised me how well designed it is. Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.
To keep from players seeing this set as a complete failure, they had to place as many flashy elements into the set as possible. Things such as vexing devil, a 2cmc p-walker, and time walk 2.0 were ment to draw attention away from things such as the lack of a legendary werewolf, zero story completion for sorin, Garruk, and somewhat liliana, and a comeplete rejection of graveyard centered ideas (save for a couple of cards).
While I could agree with most of your theory, not this part.
First of all, every set has flashy elements. We just got back from double-faced-cards-land. I don't see this set being extraordinarily flashy.
Second of all, products are made waaaaaay in advance. By the time Innistrad was released, this set was likely locked in already, so things like a legendary werewolf weren't on their minds yet.
The set is stand-alone, so it doesn't have to share themes with Innistrad. It shouldn't be a complete disconnect like Rise, but what graveyard deck in standard is now not getting new things from AR?
The set is stand-alone, so it doesn't have to share themes with Innistrad. It shouldn't be a complete disconnect like Rise, but what graveyard deck in standard is now not getting new things from AR?
I disagree. I think that any set in a block, Large or Small, should share the same themes as the rest of the sets in that block. The only exception would be if the world itself undergoes a radical change, like Shadowmoor did, or the Phyrexians taking over Mirrodin. (I find it ironic that the set best suited for being a Large set in the last three years, New Phyrexia, which is literally a new world compared to Mirrodin, is the only one that WASN'T third-set-large...)
Innistrad is the same world now, in Avacyn Restored, as it was in the previous two sets. Unlike Shadowmoor, where every creature in the world fundamentally changed, the creatures in Avacyn Restored are all more or less the exact same as they were before; the sole exception is the Wolfir. Unlike New Phyrexia, where the world itself is fundamentally altered as it's rebuilt by a new set of rulers, Innistrad remains the same, with human cities and monster-ruled wilderness.
I see no reason Avacyn Restored should have dropped all of the themes of the world and replaced them with new ones. It's the same creatures in the same world; the only change is that there are more active angels and demons.
To keep from players seeing this set as a complete failure, they had to place as many flashy elements into the set as possible. Things such as vexing devil, a 2cmc p-walker, and time walk 2.0 were ment to draw attention away from things such as the lack of a legendary werewolf, zero story completion for sorin, Garruk, and somewhat liliana, and a comeplete rejection of graveyard centered ideas (save for a couple of cards).
While I could agree with most of your theory, not this part.
First of all, every set has flashy elements. We just got back from double-faced-cards-land. I don't see this set being extraordinarily flashy.
Second of all, products are made waaaaaay in advance. By the time Innistrad was released, this set was likely locked in already, so things like a legendary werewolf weren't on their minds yet.
The set is stand-alone, so it doesn't have to share themes with Innistrad. It shouldn't be a complete disconnect like Rise, but what graveyard deck in standard is now not getting new things from AR?
Really, when I mentioned flashy elements, I knew every set had cool stuff, but I just felt like things in AVR (cough temporal mastery cough) really stood out as nearly broken along with frankly the whole miracle mechanic in general. now that I look back on my original thinking, I do realize I had been a bit off mark (not entirely mind you). AVR isn't completely game-breaking, it jus has cards that stand out in very new ways. Yes, there have been broken flashy cards in the past, but since I've only been playing since Easter 2011, I haven't really seen anything more terrible than the key cards of the accursed caw-blade. Once WotC banned JTMS and stone forge, I kind of figured that stuff like this would just never happen again and that it was just some freak accident . Keep in mind I was and still am relatively new to the game. So of course when I saw temporal mastery, the miracle mechanic, and some other crazy stuff coming out of this set that EVERYONE was talking about, I got the vibe that this just doesn't and shouldn't happen, causing my initial reaction to be "too many things are broken, some of which beyond belief. I still feel this set is doing some pretty wacky stuff compared to what I've seen so far, but I'm not going to run around as the player who cried broken.
As for the lack of certain things that players were hoping for in AVR. I still stand by my statement that these things should have and could have been done. Obviously, R&D makes sets months in advance of their release, and comes up with ideas for them even earlier. So when caught in the middle of having to throw two completely unrelated sets/blocks together, they should've done more to make the third set closer to what players would expect after ISD and DKA, knowing that the third set would be the final act of Innistrad. It's true that their time was limited far more than usual, but the least they could've done was complete the cycle of legends, if only for the EDH players. Just slapping legendary on huntmaster probably would've sufficed. As for slacking off on the story:just unacceptable. Why bother making a story if it just fails? I suppose Avacyn Restored was always going to be less graveyard centered than its preceders, but I personally would've liked to see the zombies or vampires or someone get some more monstery action. I'm sure a lot of other players would like that too.
Really though, the set isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible either. I just haven't talked up the awesome things you can use in this disconnected set.
Edit:sorry, I have a tendancy to break into full on rant when no one can interrupt me.
First is Wizards' philosophy regarding multiple large sets in a block. We've see Shadowmoor, Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored so far (It's a shame New Phyrexia wasn't a large set). They always get a mechanical overhaul. You can disagree with that, but that's how they do it currently.
Second is the theory we're discussing here, that AVR was changed too late in design to become the 3rd set on Innistrad. For this, the mechanical disconnect is no proof, as even if Wizards had 10 years to make the block, they would still have this disconnect, because that's their intent.
So when I say "AVR isn't supposed to have graveyard cards" I'm saying that to refute that it is proof of the theory, I'm not saying I agree with that stance. I actually don't, I also prefer more mechanical overlap.
As for the legendary werewolf specifically, when AVR was finished, the commander precons hadn't even been released yet, and Wizards simply didn't know how big that audience was. It's not just "if only for the EDH players" it's "only for the EDH players". For most others, legendary is a downside that is better left off a card.
As for the story specifically, yeah that one fell flat on so many levels. It's such a mess...
First is Wizards' philosophy regarding multiple large sets in a block. We've see Shadowmoor, Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored so far (It's a shame New Phyrexia wasn't a large set). They always get a mechanical overhaul. You can disagree with that, but that's how they do it currently.
Second is the theory we're discussing here, that AVR was changed too late in design to become the 3rd set on Innistrad. For this, the mechanical disconnect is no proof, as even if Wizards had 10 years to make the block, they would still have this disconnect, because that's their intent.
So when I say "AVR isn't supposed to have graveyard cards" I'm saying that to refute that it is proof of the theory, I'm not saying I agree with that stance. I actually don't, I also prefer more mechanical overlap.
As for the legendary werewolf specifically, when AVR was finished, the commander precons hadn't even been released yet, and Wizards simply didn't know how big that audience was. It's not just "if only for the EDH players" it's "only for the EDH players". For most others, legendary is a downside that is better left off a card.
As for the story specifically, yeah that one fell flat on so many levels. It's such a mess...
Well...yeah, you're probably right I suppose. I hadn't thought of how Wizards didn't even realize how huge commander was until the precons were released. I also did look over the mechanical disconnect between the third sets for each large small large plan, but I simply don't agree with it (glad to see the feeling is mutual) except in the case of completely different worlds (like NPH and SHM somewhat). And, just to make it clear to any wizards employee who reads this, the complete mess of a story that was made:NOT OK.
I want to start by thanking Maro for explaining the order of of mana symbols on gold cards. I was one of the people who asked about it as soon as I saw the first two angels. I understand how the system works, although I would prefer the simpler WUBRG order. But having that answer only raises a new question.
The rules Maro provided talk about color pairs. What about three or four color cards?
Oros, the Avenger is 3WBR (in WUBRG order) on the card, but the rules provided in the article seem like it should be BRW (since B is closer to R, than W is to B or R is to W). So what explains Oros?
Numot, the Devestator is 3RWU (not WUBRG order) and the rules indicate that it should be WBR (since W is closer to U than U is to R or R is to W). What about Numot?
However, on the original Invasion dragons (e.g. Crosis, the Purger and Darigaaz, the Igniter), the color associated with the activated ability was placed in the middle. But not always in WUBRG order Crosis and Darigaaz are in WUBRG order, but Rith isn't because the symbols follow the rules Maro provided. Rith is 3RGW because R is closer to G than G is to W or W is to R. . It's important to note that both Oros and Numot (and the other Planar Chaos Dragons) have an activated ability using only one of those colors. The mana symbol of that ability is always listed first. They are also "wedge" cards, so maybe for those the off color is listed first.
THinking about wedge and shard cards, I suppose some concession can be made so the mana symbols visually express the "shard". RWG looks like W with it's neighbors on either side. WRG does not. For wedges, the mana symbols on Numot are RWU, which reads like a R with some W an U. But any wedge is more accurately a color pair with an off-color splash and should be WUR.
If we follow the "visual appeal" line of thinking, how do you interpret a card when there are unequal mana symbols, like the new angels. Should the double symbol come first, so that all three are W with a splash of R, G or U? That's how I think of them.
Ultimately, I think WUBRG order is simpler. The confusion, even subconscious confusion, of the varying different rules creates more dissonance, than the visual benefit of giving wedge and shard cards a specific order.
The third way is fine.
