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Switch to Forum Live View 04/16/2012 MM: "Avacyn-gle Ladies, Part 1"
1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:20AM #11
daredeville
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 13

Apr 22, 2012 -- 9:59PM, chronego wrote:

I've talked numerous times about how human brains seek out pattern completions and that if you start creating a pattern, you have to finish it—otherwise, you create negative feelings in the audience, which expects the pattern to finish.


Mikaeus, the Lunarch ; Geist of Saint Traft ; Grimgrin, Corpse-Born ; Olivia Voldaren ... ... Legendary Werewolf .




I personally have really liked all of the Innistrad block and the new Avacyn Restored cards have me excited, but...

Yeah... I am with you there... Would have been really nice to have had a Legendary Werewolf to round out that tribe, and go along with all the other Legendary Creatures for each tribe... So what are EDH players supposed to do with the werewolf decks (he says and then realizes he doesn't entirely understand EDH yet, but feels the sentiment is valid, and leaves it... Undecided). And heck, they could have just changed the wording on Mayor of Avabruck or Huntmaster of the Fells and avoided this frustration from fans... that would have been simple enough.

But really, there were plently of perfect opportunities for a Legendary Werewolf with any one of the three pack alphas, as well as justifications for them remaining even after Avacyn spread Cursemute across the land.

Tovolar would have been a perfect choice to include for this set since he doesn't change back to human form, is the most referenced in flavor, and his pack had generally stayed away from larger populations – a habit which they/he could have returned to upon Avacyn's restoration and the cursemute. Depict him standing on a hill, observing the cursemute spreading out over the land, mute as ever looking on as his Howlpack is mostly converted. Include some flavor about the fate of his howlpack and what his new purpose will be... perhaps to seek out any other remaining werewolves and build a new howlpack, vowing never to become human again nor give into lure of becoming one of the Wolfir.

Or choose Skaharra of the Leeraug, and since she and her pack are particularly viscious with their killing of entire lineages, she'd be the perfect one to make a pact reflecting the opposite of Avacyn's cursemute. Whereas (most) other werewolfs became the Wolfir, she could have made a pact with a devil or demon to remain in wolf form at all times, always wild, always hungry, pursuing her murderous rampages. She'd likely be a red-aligned Werewolf even with the pact-with-the-devil aspect (I could also see a R/B version, but that's a whole different bag of donuts and would introduce too much stuff that was never present.)

Or choose Ulrich of the Krallenhorde pack, depict him traveling by boat as a human to another land where it's rumored there are still Werewolves (as per cursemute section of Wold of Avacyn Restored). The human form would also keep in line with the "converted" flavor of this set, and also reference his tendency to run with his Howlpack even when in human form. (Yes, he'd be a Legendary Human Werewolf, but hey, I would have taken it over nothing.
 
Or even give us Legendary Wolf Warrior / Wolfir, and people wouldn't be frustrated... it'd be flavorfully off, but it would be something.

OR you have Garruk currently more conscious and have him featured in the Wild Defiance card, complete with a PERFECT quote to counter the whole cursemute story and justify a wild Legendary Werewolf remaining on Innistrad. Maybe he sees one of the Wolfir bound from their enjoying their wild ways, and does a little Planewalker magic (i.e., Wild Defiance), and lets them remain wild instead of in control. I mean, c'mon that card gives you a perfect excuse to do this... and where is this wolf represented but here...?

Wild Defiance Show



I dunno, those all seem like creative, viable options to me, and I don't think it'd be too out of place in a set like this, even with Green, Red, and Blue a little more "well-behaved" since Avacyn's return. And besides, with all these humans Revolting , Rioting , Striking , and Malcontent...ing , they need some more creatures to rail against. We've still got some vampires, devils, zombies, and geists after all... what's one last werewolf? 

And if that werewolf is one of the last hold-outs that would certainly make them Legen... (wait for it) ...dary.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:09AM #12
notthephonz
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2008
Posts: 154

Apr 23, 2012 -- 12:24AM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Apr 22, 2012 -- 9:59PM, chronego wrote:

This irritates me. Actively making it a goal to design fewer new cards




Reprints are cute. They're nostalgic. We get hundreds of new cards every year. Many of them forgettable. A few reprints here and there bring more emotional connection. 
 




I agree with TobyornotToby.  When I was first getting into Magic, I had a roommate who refused to play with any cards printed after Revised.  Thanks to all the reprints in Time Spiral, though, some of his cards were actually legal in Standard.  I borrowed his copies of Bad Moon for my Mono-Black Rogues deck.  =)  It's also nice to see certain cards reimagined for different settings, with new flavor text and possibly new art.  Mirrodin's Atog , Shadowmoor's Torture , and Tenth Edition's Bog Wraith are good examples of this.  (Incidentally, is there a way to autocard a particular version of a card?)  Sometimes selecting reprints fall into that "fill the pattern" thinking mentioned in the article--if I had been familiar with Harrow before Zendikar, I definitely would have expected it to show up in that block.

All that being said, though, I think the reprint choices mentioned in the article are pretty weak.  They most certainly are not "dripping with angel flavor;" they just draw attention to how bland the angel theme is.  Like Guest872980744 suggested, it's like they just searched Gatherer for cards with "angel" in their names.

Regarding the legendary werewolf issue, I think the problem there is the fact that they introduced Werewolf as a new creature type.  This doesn't make sense to me, since "werewolf" means "man-wolf"--the creature type should just have been represented as Human Wolf.  (I vaguely remember an article that went into the reasoning behind this decision, but I can't remember what it said.)  As a result, the relevant tribal stuff for werewolves always had the awkward "Werewolves and Wolves" wording, and the legendary creature ended up being a wolf instead of a werewolf.  Oh well, at least there's always Mistform Ultimus .

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:34AM #13
adeyke
  • Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 9,452
I like reprints, but I think Archangel is really out of place.  It's just much too bland and doesn't fit in with all the new, interesting designs.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:44AM #14
veloxiraptor
Date Joined: Nov 4, 2006
Posts: 44
Regarding Red getting "aggressively-costed" looting: Mad Prophet is CLEARLY not a good example of this.  :/
Obligatory Dragon (M)

Creature - Dragon
Flying
Tokenism (This card exists to fulfill a quota.)
Whenever Obligatory Dragon attacks, I dunno, maybe it deals damage to something or other. The automated Dragon Dispenser broke down and no one here knows how to design a Dragon card while sober. Hey, tell you what, try attacking with this thing and then shoot us an email to tell us what happens. We'll probably print it in a Core Set.
5/5
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 7:17AM #15
Qmark
  • vitriol and virtue
Date Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 16,735
Dangerous Wager is damn good.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:37AM #16
Uhhsam
Date Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 1,327
I was a little confused by how little similarity Flowering Lumberknot has with Lumberknot .  Makes me wonder how they come up with a balace between flavor and mechanics when creating (or not creating) tribes. 

I suppose it's entirely possible that they just knew they wanted a card with Flowering Lumberknot's ability, and just happened to have an extra piece of treefolk art lying around.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:55AM #17
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,324

Apr 23, 2012 -- 8:37AM, Uhhsam wrote:

I was a little confused by how little similarity Flowering Lumberknot has with Lumberknot .  Makes me wonder how they come up with a balace between flavor and mechanics when creating (or not creating) tribes. 

I suppose it's entirely possible that they just knew they wanted a card with Flowering Lumberknot's ability, and just happened to have an extra piece of treefolk art lying around.




My guess is that they started with the mechanic (can't attack/block alone) then looked for a creature type that fits being immobile (treefolk) then realized they could make a reference to an innistrad card. Which fits with the basic lands that do the same.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 9:50AM #18
Highwayman
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2004
Posts: 3,135
Hey MaRo, how come no Halo Hunter ?

I know white's angels have gotta win, but with Avacyn on the board they do just that. I figured the helvault ought to have released at least a couple of other badass demons.

Seemed like a missed opportunity to do an atog (when reprinted in mirrodin). Seriously, when are you getting a better chance for this guy to shine?
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:46PM #19
chronego
Date Joined: Jul 6, 2011
Posts: 1,290

Apr 23, 2012 -- 12:24AM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Reprints are cute. They're nostalgic. We get hundreds of new cards every year. Many of them forgettable. A few reprints here and there bring more emotional connection.



Apr 23, 2012 -- 5:09AM, notthephonz wrote:

Mirrodin's Atog , Shadowmoor's Torture , and Tenth Edition's Bog Wraith are good examples of this.  (Incidentally, is there a way to autocard a particular version of a card?)  Sometimes selecting reprints fall into that "fill the pattern" thinking mentioned in the article--if I had been familiar with Harrow before Zendikar, I definitely would have expected it to show up in that block.


Some reprints are okay. I, too, like seeing the perfect reprint for a set, such as Harrow in Zendikar.

The problem here is the "as many as possible". One in twenty cards in this set is a reprint. To me, that's downright ridiculous. And for many of them, the only reason they're here is that they have "Angel" in the name...

I also take issue with them reprinting cards such as Naturalize or Demolish , which we see every core set.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:15PM #20
12three45
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2010
Posts: 261

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:46PM, chronego wrote:

Apr 23, 2012 -- 12:24AM, TobyornotToby wrote:

Reprints are cute. They're nostalgic. We get hundreds of new cards every year. Many of them forgettable. A few reprints here and there bring more emotional connection.



Apr 23, 2012 -- 5:09AM, notthephonz wrote:

Mirrodin's Atog , Shadowmoor's Torture , and Tenth Edition's Bog Wraith are good examples of this.  (Incidentally, is there a way to autocard a particular version of a card?)  Sometimes selecting reprints fall into that "fill the pattern" thinking mentioned in the article--if I had been familiar with Harrow before Zendikar, I definitely would have expected it to show up in that block.


Some reprints are okay. I, too, like seeing the perfect reprint for a set, such as Harrow in Zendikar.

The problem here is the "as many as possible". One in twenty cards in this set is a reprint. To me, that's downright ridiculous. And for many of them, the only reason they're here is that they have "Angel" in the name...

I also take issue with them reprinting cards such as Naturalize or Demolish , which we see every core set.




I like the reprints-especially for the basics. Some cards just get it right. Plus, there are limited numbers of window dressings to put on it. The black reprints have solid art, which is one of my favorite things about reprints. I might be wrong, but isn't this the first foil version of Archangel? 

Regarding this as a larger issue, I'd like to hear the story behind Vessel of Endless Rest. I don't get it. It is a Darksteel ingot variant. The ingot has a simple, relevent rider, but this one seems out of left field. Darksteel Ingot would be out of place as a reprint, but how did this ETB end up there? 

Also, for cards not covered in this article, I'd like to hear something about how you all view these enchantments like Cathars’ Crusade and Exquisite Blood. Both have powerful synergies with older cards, but nothing quite as insane in the standard setting. Do you know Sanguin bond and Exquisite Blood are really good together and actively like that, or just don't care? The last one I wondered about was Descent Into Madness. Obviously it is a fixed Smokestack, but what was the motivation in trying to do that?    

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