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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:52PM #1
Fonthiel
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2010
Posts: 58
1)
I have 2 cards left in my deck with a Laboratory Maniac in play, and cast Brainstorm . Would I still win since I drew from an empty library even though there are cards still left in my deck?

2) I know that I cant Redirect a spell to itself, but could I Redirect it to the Redirect ?

3) Do things such as Ballyrush Banneret effect things such as prowl or evoke costs? I dont believe so, but a few players in my group have brough it up and we have gone with that you cant so far.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:04PM #2
meb9000
Date Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 420
1) After Brainstorm resolves, you win the game, since during its resolution, the event "You attempted to draw a card from an empty library you (lose->win) the game." occurred. After the resolution, state-based effects are checked and you win.

2) When it resolves, it is still a spell on the stack, so you can say, redirect a Counterspell onto the now-resolving Redirect on the stack.

3) Yes, since the prowl/evoke costs are the costs that are you paying to Cast the spells.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:43PM #3
Segoth
Date Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 1,055

Apr 19, 2012 -- 10:04PM, meb9000 wrote:

1) After Brainstorm resolves, you win the game, since during its resolution, the event "You attempted to draw a card from an empty library you (lose->win) the game." occurred. After the resolution, state-based effects are checked and you win.




Actually they win the game as they attempt to draw their last card, during the resolution of brainstorm.  Laboratory Maniac has a replacement effect that replaces the card draw with winning the game.  The brainstorm will never finish resolving and state based action will not be performed.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 9:29AM #4
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,306

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:52PM, Fonthiel wrote:

2) I know that I cant Redirect a spell to itself, but could I Redirect it to the Redirect ?


assuming the Redirect is a legal target for the spell, yes
eg. Cancel = yes, Doom Blade = no, Essence Scatter = no

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Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!"
GainsBanding: "I only play online.  The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!"
Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature."
Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?"
Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation"
Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny."
MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?"

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 10:26AM #5
Chaikov
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 5,831

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:52PM, Fonthiel wrote:

Do things such as Ballyrush Banneret effect things such as prowl or evoke costs? I dont believe so, but a few players in my group have brough it up and we have gone with that you cant so far.


Prowl and Evoke are ALTERNATIVE costs.
These allow you to pay something else instead of the «regular» mana cost of the card. 
Banneret's ability produces a cost reduction; cost reductions (and aditionnal costs) are always applied to the total cost,
after you've decided whether to pay the regular mana cost or some alternative cost.



702.74a Prowl is a static ability (...) Paying a spell’s prowl cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.

702.72a Evoke represents two abilities (...) Paying a card’s evoke cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.

601.2b [Casting a Spell] (...) If the spell has alternative or additional costs (...), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2e). A player can’t apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell...

601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. (...) The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions...

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 3:55PM #6
Ichibann
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2010
Posts: 717

Apr 19, 2012 -- 10:43PM, Segoth wrote:

Actually they win the game as they attempt to draw their last card, during the resolution of brainstorm.  Laboratory Maniac has a replacement effect that replaces the card draw with winning the game.  The brainstorm will never resolve and state based action will not be performed (because in actuality if state based actions were performed you'd lose the game).


No. The draw was still replaced.

9/22/2011 If for some reason you can't win the game (because your opponent controls Platinum Angel, for example), you won't lose for having tried to draw a card from a library with no cards in it, because the draw was still replaced.




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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 4:05PM #7
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,306
Segoth is correct. Well except the Brainstorm is in the process of resolving and it won't finish resolving because the game would presumably end. The effect of Brainstorm for the draw that was replaced becomes "you win the game" and this will happen before SBA's would check.
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Wit found in Rules Q&A

RPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..."
Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!"
GainsBanding: "I only play online.  The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!"
Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature."
Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?"
Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation"
Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny."
MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?"

My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 8:56PM #8
Segoth
Date Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 1,055
But Ichiban is correct, after rereading it if SBA's are checked since there was no draw the player would not lose.  I've made the correction up top.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 9:19PM #9
2goth4U
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 9,306
Ah he was correcting the last part about if SBA's did actually manage to get to check.

Yes, that part he is correct about. For some reason I thought he was saying that you were mistaken about the game being won during the resolution of Brainstorm. Gah! two fails when reading today.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ

DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012
DCI #5209514320

Wit found in Rules Q&A

RPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..."
Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!"
GainsBanding: "I only play online.  The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!"
Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature."
Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?"
Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation"
Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny."
MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?"

My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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