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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 12:30PM
#91
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It's a proven fact that new and inexperienced players hate counterspells. There have been multiple polls and if you ask what do you hate more: Cast a creature and have it die and provide no effect before your next turn vs Have your spell countered - A large majority thinks counterspells are worse - Even though they often cost the same amount of mana, and are both 1 for 1 exchanges, people feel like getting countered is worse.
I think having this land be a Boseiju for creatures that is also fixing, taps for colorless when needed, is not legendary, and has no life-payment downside is the actual most annoying card I've seen them print.
Not only does this polarize blue players to feel like you are targeting them, you are promoting a format where the only interaction is who plays the biggest creatures and knows how to do creature math better, and who has the removal spell. It's literally like they want magic to become more like Momir w/ Doom Blades -- whomever randomly has the most relevant dude and who makes less on-board play mistakes.
I honestly see myself just playing cube and ignoring constructed formats until they re-evaluate their stance on control in magic.
lets see, i play magic since apocalypse. i still hate counterspell... now i know its part of the game and im not whining about mana leak being to powerfull. i think though that blue is to powerfull right now.
But what i really hate: control players (almost always in blue) saying that magic without counters is just who got the biggest creature, sure this is true to certain extend. But i have never had a game where counterspells required more skills then just casting doomblade on the right moment. Magic just requires some smart tricks you need to learn, after that it is a realy simple game that just cares more about having luck and drawing the cards you need. Im not saying magic is a skilless game. on the contrary. you need to learn a lot in order to know how to build a deck and how to play with it and how to make the best discission possible in any given situation. But if you want to prove youre smarter and more skillfull then the other guy across the table: why not play chess?
Now i agree with you that this land is ****, my guess is that it should be better if it was just a Boseiju for creatures (at uncommon, so its not going to make decks 50$ pricier then they already are)
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 12:37PM
#92
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2006
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But i have never had a game where counterspells required more skills then just casting doomblade on the right moment. Magic just requires some smart tricks you need to learn, after that it is a realy simple game that just cares more about having luck and drawing the cards you need.
People are very quick to forget that this whole "combo" thing exists.
Saying blue should have no answer for creatures other than play your own creatures, or play another color paired with your blue in order to get rid of those creatures is ludicrous.
edit: weird formatting shows me quoting myself... to what someone else wrote? *confused*
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 12:47PM
#93
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2007
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Is anyone else upset when they prent a rare that is just auto-good in every format?
And btw, if the deck has creatures this is good in it.
AND they've neutered competitive LD.
EDIT: was "gonna hate" a prediction of what the community were going to do?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 12:49PM
#94
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This card makes me want to quite magic. Magic has become so unbalanced. I started playing magic about 10 years ago, stopped and came back during the scars of mirrodin block. I understand not printing counter spell any more, but this is such bs. Most decks with Snapcaster hardly even use mana leak. Why are you making it that much harder for control players? Part of the fun of magic is figuring out ways around different strategies, not having someone hold your hand and forcing certain decks to become unplayable. This is a bad card, it’s going to get abused and lead to a boring format. Nobody was asking for this card.
Well, here's a land, figure out a way around it. Oh no wait as a blue mage you are entitled to always have universal answers for everything. You do not have to do this 'adapting' you're always so quick to throw at 'lesser' players.
I don't understand why they felt the need to hose Snapcaster twice. If the format just becomes creatures on creatures then the game suffers. Magic is at its best when you have options. All you guys did is make a card that will from now on have to be an auto include in a lot of decks, making those that wish to play control suffer. If mana leak is to powerful than like someone else said earlier just eliminate blue. What is blue suppose to do? Why not go after black next… it kills my creature which I paid for (that’s not fun&hellip I paid for it and now it’s gone… same way a mana leak would. This article from beginning to end is by far the most infuriating thing I have read on this website.
There are so much more ways to interact with Doom Blade  compared to Mana Leak  .
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:06PM
#95
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2011
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I just got out of a really fun, exciting game. I'm playing a Vampire deck. My opponent was playing a blue counter deck. Here's how it went down:
I played Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played another Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played Sangromancer. He played Snapcaster Mage and Mana Leaked it. I played Falkenrath Noble. He played Dissipate. I did manage to use my Go For the Throat on his Snapcaster Mage though! At that point I got bored and conceded.
These games are not fun. They are an exercise in pointless turn passing. At the very least, with this land, I can drop my Vampires without one set of cards (counters) completely shutting down my entire deck. I will say that at the very least. It doesn't solve the delver/invisible stalker/equipment problem, but it does solve something else.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:14PM
#96
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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I just got out of a really fun, exciting game. I'm playing a Vampire deck. My opponent was playing a blue counter deck. Here's how it went down:
I played Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played another Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played Sangromancer. He played Snapcaster Mage and Mana Leaked it. I played Falkenrath Noble. He played Dissipate. I did manage to use my Go For the Throat on his Snapcaster Mage though! At that point I got bored and conceded.
These games are not fun. They are an exercise in pointless turn passing. At the very least, with this land, I can drop my Vampires without one set of cards (counters) completely shutting down my entire deck. I will say that at the very least. It doesn't solve the delver/invisible stalker/equipment problem, but it does solve something else.
I highly agree with your point here. With only one Cavern out, the land will only prevent your first creature from being countered (which is extremely helpful, but doesn't help your second creature). Of course, once a couple of these lands are out, you shut down any countering (unless your creature types are that diverse). But, people have forgotten, blue does have an answer to these lands-Tap targe permanent. It may not be the fastest or more permanent solution, but it will help in troublesome times. And it will make Tapping spells that much more useful.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:15PM
#97
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The problem is not with this land, it's with the creatures themselves.
To answer a problematic spell you basically have two choices: Discard, or counter.
To answer a problematic creature you have three choices: Discard, counter, or kill.
Making them uncounterable is fine WHEN you still have kill as an option. The problem is that right now 'Kill' is not a good choice as creatures just have ridiculous ETB effects. The biggest culprits are Primeval Titan and Snapcaster mage (Go ahead and Doom Blade them - did you come out even?), but the pushing of Hexproof creatures also render Kill an invalid choice.
This land now also removes Counter as a valid choice.
If you're not Black, then you're being painted into a corner here. Countering things doesn't work, killing things doesn't work. Lands like this don't increase interactivity or innovation - they REMOVE it because it renders previously valid approaches, now invalid.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:23PM
#98
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But i have never had a game where counterspells required more skills then just casting doomblade on the right moment. Magic just requires some smart tricks you need to learn, after that it is a realy simple game that just cares more about having luck and drawing the cards you need.
People are very quick to forget that this whole "combo" thing exists.
Saying blue should have no answer for creatures other than play your own creatures, or play another color paired with your blue in order to get rid of those creatures is ludicrous.
edit: weird formatting shows me quoting myself... to what someone else wrote? *confused*
weird you quote yourself....
im not saying blue should not be allowed to have answers to creatures, i think any colour needs a way to deal with them. i know this land is going to screw things up, but when most creatures in standard with hexproof are blue, i dont see why blue is in a bad position: they should either give it good creatures or good spells, not both like they are doing now. compare to green: good creatures, very **** creature removal. but the concept of the colour pie is bleeding a lot, cards like Dismember  for example gives to green something it should not have (very good removal), and in this way: why is delver blue? its aggresive, 3/2 with evasion for 1 with a random espect in it, i should say: it was better in a red version. my guess is though that they would never print it in red, since last week (wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?...) they compared Incinerate  < /span>  with Snapcaster Mage  as the same powerlevel. maybe im weird: but how the *** are those even close in powerlevel. if you do that, guess what happens, blue cards will in general be more powerfull, and when that happens, they need to find an answer. well today they gave one, one we are not really happy about; a rare that should be auto included in almost any deck, gives a huge inflation (i think) and it is prob going to hose countermagic way to much... (wich is not nice to control players)
(i hope im wrong and it is balanced; dont think it is, but maybe)
well and about combo, i like combos but more the silly one like: www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a... the second deck is insane, funny, and unplayable.
and well maybe youre right that combo requires a little more skill then just cast delver and hope the best.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:24PM
#99
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2006
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I just got out of a really fun, exciting game. I'm playing a Vampire deck. My opponent was playing a blue counter deck. Here's how it went down:
I played Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played another Stromkirk Captain. It was Mana Leaked. I played Sangromancer. He played Snapcaster Mage and Mana Leaked it. I played Falkenrath Noble. He played Dissipate. I did manage to use my Go For the Throat on his Snapcaster Mage though! At that point I got bored and conceded.
These games are not fun. They are an exercise in pointless turn passing. At the very least, with this land, I can drop my Vampires without one set of cards (counters) completely shutting down my entire deck. I will say that at the very least. It doesn't solve the delver/invisible stalker/equipment problem, but it does solve something else.
It sounds like your problem is that you're playing limited while your opponent is playing constructed.
Try playing 1 and 2 drops, and things that interact with the board before they have a counter available.
Also, every "mana leak is too good" argument apparantly doesn't understand playing around counterspells isnt just about waiting until you have 3 extra mana. There's such a thing as baiting spells, playing early 1-2 drops that effect the game, etc.
I've yet to see a single person give an example of how a counterspell is too good, when there are creatures that when killed, have already won the game half the time: See: Primeval Titan
Edit: Dismember aka color pie travesty is not an example of blue removal.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 1:42PM
#100
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2011
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It sounds like your problem is that you're playing limited while your opponent is playing constructed. Try playing 1 and 2 drops, and things that interact with the board before they have a counter available. Also, every "mana leak is too good" argument apparantly doesn't understand playing around counterspells isnt just about waiting until you have 3 extra mana. There's such a thing as baiting spells, playing early 1-2 drops that effect the game, etc.
This is a very poor response and a poor defense of counters. Early 1-2 drops? I run 4x Stromkirk Captain (3 CMC), 4x Falkenrath Noble (4 CMC), 4x Bloodline Keeper (4 CMC), Olivia Voldaren (4 CMC), and Sangromancer (4 CMC). I don't think having creatures in the 3-4 mana range should be that detrimental on my strategy. Let's think about this... Rakish Heir is 3 CMC. Child of Night is 2 CMC. Stromkirk Noble is 1 CMC. So to combat blue, I should play creatures in the 1-2CMC range instead of 3-4 CMC range. Stromkirk Noble is a 90 cent card online. Mana Leak is 1 cent. I should spend 4 dollars to properly handle 4 cents? I realize this is a monetary value argument, but the point is very clear: "answers" aren't always feasible for everyone, and outside of tournaments, people shouldn't have to have the best possible cards to combat something so easily obtainable as Mana Leak. Counters shouldn't be that good.
(Also, this is what vapor snag is for, and why a lot of blue decks play blue/black and run black sun's zenith.)
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