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Switch to Forum Live View 04/20/2012 LD: "Gonna Hate"
1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:39PM #31
Fenix.
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2012
Posts: 3,056

Apr 19, 2012 -- 10:15PM, DerangedHermit wrote:

I think it's safe to say that the Titans and Mana Leak are getting bounced out of M13.



Yeah this is the point. Standard will be a rather stupid environment while this and titans are both legal, M13 is hopefully gonna rectify that.

Also Zac, dont tell me this card was printed to hose snapcaster, please. Right now, the only thing this card accomplishes is make 80% of the viable decks 90$ more expensive. Congratulations.


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Nov 27, 2012 -- 6:39AM, Mata_Hari wrote:

Nov 27, 2012 -- 12:26AM, BankaiMastery wrote:

Okay, here is the clincher. I've been waiting to say this.

The "cam girl" this was inspired by was just a girl from a social networking website, Stickam. Her name was TinyTerror and she was just a regular girl who was on her webcam, totally unrelated to any type of adult content.

I hope you all feel really smart now.

This is like someone coming into class with a bloody nose and everyone's like "Jeez what happened to you" and they're like "I ran into a wall" and everyone laughs at them for being an idiot but then at the end of the class they say "HAHA JUST KIDDING I PUNCHED MYSELF IN THE FACE!!!!!! TALK ABOUT OWNED HAHAHAHAHA"


Oct 25, 2012 -- 9:53PM, magicpablo666 wrote:

I really enjoy imagining this from Kevin's perspective. Because in Kevin's world, Rosewater actually reads everything he types. Mark is sitting there right now, reading this, and thinking "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. . ." Or some such. He chuckles low, then clicks on "The Best Of KEVINSET" and says "Yes, this'll do just fine. A busty lady with banding who deals direct damage to Zones!? Why this will be the star of my next set, and no one will ever believe you Kevin." Then he closes his Macbook, so his servant may move it out of the way, while another servant puts a Fetal Richard Garfield Clone lathered in Steak Sauce in front of him. Then Mark Feasts.


Sorin walked into the chamber where his newly wed bride, Vampy, awaited. A beam of moonlight illuminated his brilliant silver hair as he strode with confidence towards the bed. His shirtless body showcased his powerful abdominal muscles and he was wearing jeans with holes in the knees.


Nov 24, 2012 -- 8:07PM, felisdomesticus wrote:

Nov 24, 2012 -- 7:19PM, CherylCheryl wrote:

I wish more girls play magic cards...


Have you considered assassinating Kevin?

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:43PM #32
MaxFAn
Date Joined: May 4, 2009
Posts: 1,568
OK, so now I cast the Hexproof can't be sacrificed angel and you can't counter it, go?
This card is lame.
The end is always nigh.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:48PM #33
Kensan_Oni
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 4,560
I find it funny that people tend to think that delver itself is the biggest issue.

Delver may be the deck's name, but it isn't Delver that generates the win for the deck, and Good Ol' Snappy just helps make the rest of the deck so much better. Without Snapcaster, Delver becomes a medicore tempo deck that runs out of stream in the current enviroment.

The analysis that this card won't stop Delver directly is correct. Delver decks will play this card. The tempo will go on. It'll make things much harder for the mirror. However, if you don't think creatures don't get countered with Mana Leak... I'd suggest you watch more games. It may not be your choice of play, but it happens enough.

What this does is it moves the emphasis from counter to removal, which is a shift people should have been noticing with the current GB trends. While it still doesn't answer the Hexproof problem directly, hopefully we'll be seeing less of it in the future.

Besides, it's not like you're going to stop playing counters just because creatures can't be countered. There is plenty of things that still need to be countered.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:01PM #34
r4z0rs3dg3
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2012
Posts: 5
I don't see how this addresses snap caster mage.  It hoses mana leak, and will be format warping in any format that has creatures, and countermagic.  I also don't see why mana leak is such a big deal.  Just play around it, leave 3 mana up, or cast progressively worse threats. 2uu Flash, counter target spell unless it's controller plays 3, 2/1 is good, but not dominating.  I don't know maybe's it me, but I can remember playing around countermagic in standard when both counterspell and mana leak were legal.  Aparently the creatures back then were worse then as well.  (They were serra angle versus baneslayer angle .)  And has been said there also plenty of things like  ponder , and mana leak aimed a non creature which make snap caster so good.  But if mana is the premo target of snap caster, how come Finkle removed his mana leaks but kept his snap casters in spirits deck for honulu? 

As for this, it will see play in every single deck that runs creatures, except maybe zoo.  Including delver of secrets; naming either humans, or spirits depending on build.  This card derives it's power not from fixing your manna in a deck with common creatures types.  (B/U/R zombies anyone?  How about B/R/W vampires?)  nor is it's power that it garrenties ETB abilities will resolve.  (name giant, play primeval titan   get your land, pull out a Kessig wolfrun , and an inkmoth nexus .  Or that it does both.  (Wanna play a 3~4 colour ramp titan deck. with the titan uncounterable?).  Those things make it good, really good.  No what makes this card coo-coo bannas broken is that it does all thoughs things, with no draw back FOR FREE!  You can litterally pull out 4 basic land from your deck, it's jus as consistant.  You drop this on turn 1, and still cast spells as if it was the land of your choice.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:09PM #35
igniteice
Date Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 43
I wish Magic R&D would own up to more mistakes, such as giving everything hexproof when it deserves shroud. Shroud is important, because it prevents things like equipment from being tacked on to cards like Geist and Invisible Stalker. Couple that with Invisible Stalker being unblockable and you have a 1/1 that is anything but a 1/1. The real problem in standard then is that certain mechanics are being abused (not by players, necessarily, but by the game itself).

Things like hexproof and undying and undoubtedly miracle ability are all things that R&D seems to be "okay" with but otherwise make games utterly boring and short. Runechanter's Pike is an absolutely brutal piece of equipment, easily ending up as an 8/1 first strike equipment in short time with cards like forbidden alchemy, gitaxian probe, think twice, and ponder filling up the graveyard. These are all cards that aren't counters but help put counters into a player's hand.

I understand that this new land aims to fix that problem: great, now we can play creatures that can't be countered. It doesn't address the fact that runechanter's pike is being thrown onto a creature that is unblockable, or a creature like Geist that now has first strike and is putting down a 4/4 with evasion. Furthermore, it does nothing to address the aggro of Delver. Even if I play a Tragic Slip or Geistflame, I'm still making a 1 for 1 trade that sets me back one card but sets them back practically nothing. Why? Because Delver is like cream on top of a cupcake: it's really good, but it's not the whole thing. Kill a delver and now invisible stalker or geist comes out.

Blue/White and Black/Blue control and aggro (arguably) decks just aren't fun to play against. You know what's coming: a tiny little creature with runchanter's pike on it with a graveyard full of daggers. What are you going to do? Black Sun's Zenith it? Oh wait, this land doesn't protect sorceries/instants from being countered, just creatures...
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:11PM #36
mlanier131
Date Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 97
Pretty excited. I dislike that players can counter everything and then claim they won with "skill". Thanks!!! Play real magic and not this "let me play and you just sit there while I make your cards look stupid with mana leak"
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:22PM #37
igniteice
Date Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 43

Apr 19, 2012 -- 11:01PM, r4z0rs3dg3 wrote:

I also don't see why mana leak is such a big deal.  Just play around it, leave 3 mana up, or cast progressively worse threats.




Mana Leak is a huge card because it snags out early threats or hasty players. If you're trying to drop a 6 CMC and leave 3 mana open, you are setting yourself up far behind a blue player to the point where you won't be able to catch up. For all the 3 CMC drops, you can't just wait until you have 6 land out to drop them either. Naturally, Mana Leak is kind of like Frightful Delusion in a way: it becomes useless after a certain point, because your opponent will always have that extra mana. The catch here is that Frightful Delusion is appropriately costed and has an additional effect (the discard always triggers). Mana leak obviously couldn't have been 3 CMC, because than it would be strictly worse compared to Cancel or Dissipate (of course, Cancel is strictly worse than Dissipate, unless you want their cards to go to their graveyard for some reason). Should Mana Leak have been "unless that player pays 2?" Perhaps...

Counters are fundamentally a difficult concept to balance around. If you make cards uncounterable, they generally cost more and are less splashable (pyroclasm vs volcanic fallout). But there is another problem: counters rely on having mana open, and there are too many cards that are instant speed that are used instead of counters. Consider Forbidden Alchemy. This is a great card because it allows you to look 4 deep and grab the best card from that mix. Even better though, it's at instant speed and costs the same CMC as a counter. If you don't counter an opponent's card, you can play this instead at the end of their turn. That is a huge advantage, because it lets you keep your mana open just in case.

Other colors can't afford to do that though. They can't afford to keep 3 mana open, because everything they play is at sorcery speed. If it wasn't, for instance, they may wait till the end of the opponent's turn to cast something after the opponent casts forbidden alchemy, let's say. But that leads to things like circumventing summoning sickness, or triggering end of opponent turn effects. This is good for cards like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, which is both why it has flash and costs a lot. It wouldn't be good if every card had it. This is one of the drawbacks of having so many things be instant speed. It makes leaving mana open for counters that much easier, because blue has no trade off. What is the opportunity cost of a 3 mana spell when you only have 3 mana available and it's your turn? If you're blue, it's a counter on your opponent's next turn. If all your non-counter spells were sorceries, this would be a problem, you'd be either drawing cards, or you'd be saving mana for counters. You could theoretically then say, "Well, I'll just wait till I have 6 lands so I can play one spell for 3 and leave 3 open." This is why Mana Leak is powerful. It tells the opponent that they need to have 3 extra land open, but the person casting Mana Leak only needs 2.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:25PM #38
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,834

Leaving aside that any creature with more than 1 power functions perfectly well in a goldfish match, how exactly does he contend that spells are better than creatures just because they aren't delayed by a single turn?  Spells only happen once.  Would you print a spell that says "Deal 20 damage to target player"?  Well, every creature is potentially such a spell.  I'd say that's a much bigger advantage than just happening a little faster.  Card advantage is a thing, remember?

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:36PM #39
TokenMaster
Date Joined: May 20, 2005
Posts: 82

Apr 19, 2012 -- 11:11PM, mlanier131 wrote:

Pretty excited. I dislike that players can counter everything and then claim they won with "skill". Thanks!!! Play real magic and not this "let me play and you just sit there while I make your cards look stupid with mana leak"


Countermagic was harder to play before it got backed up by effcient threats like Delver and Geist.  And this card is primarily going to go into blue/white decks trying to resovle their creatures that are already pretty strong.

Mana Leak is not the biggest problem here; that card has been around for over ten years and didn't completely break the game.  The problem is that you let blue put a serious clock on the opponent with undercosted threats, AND be able to back it up with countermagic, early-game.  If Delver, Snapcaster Mage, and Geist were never printed, I guarantee you Mana Leak would not see nearly as much play.  You are just ignoring the giant elephant in the room and blaming something that has always been there.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:46PM #40
XchokeholdX
Date Joined: Jun 28, 2010
Posts: 27
This + Sigarda is as close of playing solitaire as possible. Very nice wizards, another nail into the everdwindling interaction of playing a magic game with another player who is looking for a game TWO players can play together...

Next up: Crystal Cave of wonders.

tap to add (1)
tap to add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast non-creature spells. If this mana is spent on a non-creature spell, that spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.

So we can just be done with it and kill interaction all together..

Land Rare
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
{T}: Add 1 to your mana pool.
{T}: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells of the chosen creature type. If this mana is spent on a spell, that spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.
Awesome land is awesome.
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