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Switch to Forum Live View Using evolution on a "real" deck for 10 generations:

1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 12:36AM #11
wickeddarkman Date Joined: Dec 15, 2011 Posts: 461	ABSTRACT: By use of evolution I am changing a prototype deck into something better. No human deckdesign is involved except from the prototype deck. PROTOTYPE DECK: 4 plains 4 islands 4 swamps 4 mountains 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 sootwalkers 4 ravens run dragoon 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar ------------------------------------------------- Please note that the prototype deck has been chosen for several reasons. 1 It's manabalance is really bad. most of the time all the colorwalkers are the wrong color early in the game. 2 The colorwalkers have some synergy with the conspire spells, and they also make blocking a real hard thing to figure out since all decks have dualcolored creatures. 3 Using all 5 colors means that initial decks may evolve in all 5 color-directions. ------------------------------------------------- A population of 36 decks are used, the number is higher than previous evolutionary projects I have created by using reallife cards and games. Last project used only 20 decks and worked very well. It's still a low number, but with this amount a single generation takes a week to run. The genepool consists of all hybrid and multicolored common cards and all common basic lands from exodus and up. ------------------------------------------------- HEXHUNTERS: (2 alive) This decktype evolved from losing sootwalkers and gaining hexhunter. later it also lost memory sluice and gained barren moor. A minimum of this decktype exists and it is already on it's way to extinction. ------------------------------------------------- ANCIENT SPRING: (3 alive) Early on this deck was mutated to lose traitors roar and gain ancient spring. The extra land has shown to give it an edge and it has since mutated into several variants with many differences. ------------------------------------------------- BARREN MOOR: (8 alive) Losing giantbaiting and gaining barren moor has also given this decktype a clear edge in competition. This species has had the most mutations of all species, and is spreading out in various designs. ------------------------------------------------- BOROS 1: (2 alive) This decktype lost mudbrawler and gained boros recruit. It later loses ravens run dragoon and gains nip gwyllion. The ability to deal early damage and gain some life is currently under stress, but is showing signs of talent. ------------------------------------------------- WOODLURKER: (4 alive) Lost memory sluice and gained woodlurker mimic. Is very hard to defeat in combat. ------------------------------------------------- GEOTHERMAL CREVICE: (5 alive) Lost æthertow and gained geothermal crevice. Because of a statistical fluke this decktype has not had any other mutations, but the extra land seems to keep it alive despite it's slow developement. ------------------------------------------------- BOROS 2: (4 alive) Lost barrenton cragtreads and won boros recruit. Has had no further mutations, but the boros seems to give it an edge. ------------------------------------------------- FAVOR: (4 alive) Lost an island but gained favor of the overbeing. Despite the fact that this deck is slower than most it has had luck with favor and indestructability. Somehow it has not met æthertow. No other mutations. ------------------------------------------------- RIVERFALL MIMIC: (5 alive) lost giantbaiting and gained riverfall mimic. has had no other mutations. Seems to do quite well... ------------------------------------------------- Generation 2 is halfplayed. A lot of surprises and extinctions are on it's way. ------------------------------------------------- HEXHUNTER: (1 member, 2 last time) Still clinging on to life for some reason. I expect it to be gone next generation. ------------------------------------------------- ANCIENT SPRING: (3 members, 3 last time) For some reason ancient spring doesnt seem to be as good as geothermal crevice, but the family is staying alive, which is not a bad thing. If it keeps on surviving it may gain the right mutation to fit with ancient spring. ------------------------------------------------- BARREN MOOR: (10 members, 8 last time) This baby keeps on growing. It is this family that is behind the sub-family "petrahydrox". There is currently 4 "petrahydrox" decks alive, and 2 of them looks like this: 4 odious trow 4 island (2 other versions has remote farm at this slot) 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutter 4 petrahydrox 4 barkshell blessing 4 barren moor 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar The barren moor family is probably going to spread out in many directions. ********************************************************* ------------------------------------------------- BOROS RECRUIT I: (1 member, 2 last time) Seems to be a dying family. ------------------------------------------------- WOODLURKER MIMIC: (6 members, 4 before) A family on the rise. It will surely start an intense war with the barren moor decks (Families with many members meet each other frequently because of their numbers. Showing 1 subfamily. SOMNOMANCER: (2 members) 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest (A third member has mutated to hobgoblin dragoon here) 4 somnomancer 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 wooodlurker mimic 4 traitors roar ------------------------------------------------- GEOTHERMAL CREVICE: (6 members, 5 last time) Also spreading out, the geothermal crevice family is very simplistic in design. It deviates from the prototype deck by only 1 mutation, which is the replacement of æthertow into geothermal crevice. The rest is completelly unchanged. For some reason this family is thriving because it has not mutated. My guess is that it manages to prey on woodlurker and riverfall mimic decks by having more 3/3 creatures and 4 more lands than most other decks. ------------------------------------------------- BOROS RECRUIT II: (3 members, 4 last time) More resistant than the boros I this family has still lost a little ground. It has to be lucky to evolve out of this situation. ------------------------------------------------- FAVOR OF THE OVERBEING: (0 members, 4 last time) It died very suddenly despite having 4 members. This means that families with even that many members are not very safe when the big families start to war. Extinct!!! It did manage quite well with 16 lands though, until the mimic decks and barren moor gained ground. ------------------------------------------------- RIVERFALL MIMIC: (6 members, 5 last time) This family is moving into some very interresting directions. 4 plains 4 islands 4 swamp 4 mountains 4 forests 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow (2 members has mutated to drain the well here) 4 giant baiting 4 riverfall mimic 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar ------------------------------------------------- All in all it was quite a puzzle to make the family tree this time. Every deck has it's own personal id, which is one of the tools I use in keeping track of them. I was surprised by the way the family tree moved for almost all decks this time. It was quite confusing, and took a lot of cut and paste with small papernotes before I had a result. Also gaining overview of it all after each generation has been played out is also pretty confusing. Things never look like I expect they would (Mostly because i only count the members in families at the end of the phase.) In last post I asked wether people thought the petrahydrox family would survive with or without odious trow! Now I know the answer! All living versions of the petrahydrox mutations also share the odious trow. This is not so much because of the card odious trow which actually never has been in combat yet, but the petrahydrox card seems to be what makes this work! ------------------------------------------------- Running generation 3 will take about a week from now, but may run a little late. Analyzing stuf sadly takes up time as well ******************************************************* Ding Dong the hexhunter family has died out. Extinction is still working fast during these early stages, and success is mostly based on a stable number of lands with flexible mana. I hate playing with decks with no interresting mutations, too bad the decks with no changes seem to be the best out there in the field. ANCIENT SPRING: (members 5, 3 before) On the rise again! It looked as if it was going to be extinct last time, but now it is rising. There are no really big changes to this design, so the only reason why it works must be that it has 4 of each landtype and then the ancient spring. 24 lands. Boring shiat to play with. The only noteable thing is that the ancient spring ocupies the slot meant for traitors roar, which perhaps means that this deckdesign cannot rest and go into a defensive mode. I don't know!!! ------------------------------------------------- BARREN MOOR: (members 9, 10 before) Still defending it's borders and looking good. This family is divided into two major groups. The original barren moor deck, which is 1 mutation away from the prototype deck (Barren moor replaced giant baiting). It's another boring land-deck successfull because of it's balance. The second side of the family is the "petrahydrox family" which is doing quite well. A recent mutation had it gain Empty the well, which really locks down enemy decks when it hits play early. I love playing this one. One version has adopted Scar which I think will be interresting to play with. Scar can kill mimics, and bounce petrahydrox. It seems like a nice mutation. ------------------------------------------------- BOROS I: (with barrenton) (5 members, 1 before) This deck made an amazing twist away from it's prophecized extinction! Rather drastically it lost boros recruit and gained saprazzan skerry. A boring mutation in mho, but it works. SIGH!!! ------------------------------------------------- BOROS II: (with mudbrawler) (2 members, 3 before) This is the nip gwyllion/boros recruit variant! It is still alive. Let's see about that next generation. (I really love this deck, but it seems to lose a lot. Bah!!!) ------------------------------------------------- WOODLURKER MIMIC: (4 members, 6 before) Only 1 part of this family seemed genetically fit, however that version seems unable to lose. Despite the fact that it has fewer members it is actually on a rise, since the weaker versions of the design are dying, while the good ones remain. I forgot to take notes on this familly, so a description of it will have to wait! ------------------------------------------------- RIVERFALL MIMIC: (9 members, 6 before) This family is spreading out in many directions, (One is just using the original design) and it seems that this diversion is paying of successfully. For some reason this family is more successfull than I thought it would be. It does gain unblockability from time to time, but it happens so rarely that it really cannot be for that reason alone. I will have to watch this one carefully in the future! -------------------------------------------------GEOTHERMAL CREVICE: (2 members, 6 before) No real changes, and now it is in danger as ancient spring was it before. Will it pull through and rise again? Or will it fall before the ancient? ------------------------------------------------- The whole process is getting a lot more interresting! (Except at the playing field!) There is an open battle between different strategies. 20 lands. 20 3/3-critters: Very boring! only the different lands this type of design uses makes it worth studying. Most of the time there seems to be a balance between failing to generate enough mana early and generating a lot of beaters later. 24 lands. 20 3/3-critters: Also very boring. Tends to be faster, but if it doesnt win early it will lose because it has less conspire-tricks. Mutants: Has between 20-24-28 lands, some mimics and generally has lost conspire-spells rather than creatures. I'm not sure if they are best at beatin the slow or the fast decks, but they have internal struggles that can be really fascinating when they meet other mutant decks. ******************************************************* Sad news! The BOROS I design is extinct. Just as I had learned to play it, it was overwhelmed by some of the more advanced decks. I will miss playing with nip gwyllion and boros recruit in the same deck Things are now so complicated that i find it easier to reveal all decks at the same time. Here is the entire population of generation 4: ------------------------------------------------- ANCIENT SPRING: (5 members, 5 before) 3 members share the following design: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 memory sluice 4 ancient spring 1 member share the first design but has replaced æthertow with swamp. 1 member also share the first design but has replaced giant baiting with island. ------------------------------------------------- WOODLURKER MIMIC: (3 members, 4 before) 2 members share the following design: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 somnomancer 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 woodlurker mimic 4 traitors roar The last member of this family shares the same design but has replaced ravens run dragoon with windwright mage. ------------------------------------------------- BARREN MOOR: (5 members, 9 before) 3 members share the following design: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 barren moor 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar The last two members share the same design, but both has the following replacements Lost plains, gained odious trow lost barrenton cragtreads, gained shell skulkin lost mudbrawler raiders, gained shimmering grotto lost æthertow, gained petrahydrox lost barren moor, gained scar ------------------------------------------------- GEOTHERMAL CREVICE: (4 members, 2 before) 3 members share the following design: 4 plains 4 favor of the overbeing 3 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 geothermal crevice 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 golgari rotfarm 4 traitors roar The last member shares the same design but has island instead of favor of the overbeing ------------------------------------------------- BOROS II: (3 members, 2 before) 2 members share the following design: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 boros recruit 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar The last member shares the same design but has replaced boros recruit with saprazzan skerry. ------------------------------------------------- RIVERFALL MIMIC: (16 members, 9 before) 8 members share the following design (Called A): 4 plains 4 boros garrison 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 riverfall mimic 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar 1 member shares design A but has replaced boros garrison with goblin deathraiders. 2 members share desig A but has replaced æthertow with drain the well. (This is design B). 2 members share design B but has replaced riverfall mimic with elsewhere flask. (This is called design C). Design B and descendants have island instead of boros garrison. 2 members share design C but has replaced mudbrawler raiders with watchwing scarecrow. (This is called design D). 1 member shares design D but has replaced sootwalkers with runes of the deus. ------------------------------------------------- AFTERTHOUGHTS: Again things managed to surprise me a lot. For example far more of the more primitive decks survived than I would have thought. I only count the family members at the end of each generation, so I am surprised as much as you will by what decks survive or not. The petrahydrox family has suffered huge losses and is down to 2 survivors, which came as a real surprise to me. I pray for that decks survival, but nothing is safe (especially designs with only 2 members ). The saprazzan skerry of the BOROS II family is down to one!!! Before there were at least 5 of them!!! Amazing developement. And the biggest surprise of them all! That the RIVERFALL MIMIC family should grow to 16 members! Stunningly half of them are direct descendants og a generation 1 design. I have no idea of why they are so successfull, but I may have a theory about it. Those of you who read that "THE MAFIA" has entered my mana solution simulation will know that decks sharing almost the same traits with slight variations somehow manage to block out other designs simply by being related and almost as successfull. Why it works I don't know, but for some reason the whole RIVERFALL MIMIC family is based on this kind of structure. I think I may have written about it in more details than this, so hunt down the post if you didn't read it back then. ********************************************************* So now we are halfway from the first goal (A competetive deck by generation 10) And frankly it doesn't look that good at the moment. Numbers of decks in families: riverfall 16 (16 before) geothermal 7 (4 before) ancient 5 (5 before) boros II 0 (3 before) barren 4 (5 before) woodlurker 4 (3 before) So all decks with boros recruit in them have gone extinct! Such a shame... Of all the decks that shows potential now, there is only 2 members of it, and it was widespread before, now it has dwindled down to nothing. I'm talking about the deck with: wingwatch scarecrow, elsewhere flask, drain the well deck. The petrahydrox deck is also about to go extinct, and the worst thing about it is that they are both going down to what looks like primordial soup with extra lands. The power of 20 3/3 creatures with a cost of 4 and 24-28 lands seems to rule now. Drain the well deck gave a rise in decks with more lands, since it wiped out most 20-land decks when it was at it's highest, so it is indirectly the cause of it's own fate. (I hope 1 version of it will make it through because it has a very good mutation) I will post decklists later today. I'd like to finnish by telling you that the cardpool has been expanded to 363 cards. It now includes all commoncards which are either multicolored or artifacts and that are from exodus and forwards. I will be including some more cards but I need to search the web for what is common arti and multi in the oldest sets. Oh, almost forgot. I took a generation 4 deck to the common kill tournament, and it lost a lot. It was however very close to win during at least half of the games, so there is hope after all Decklists for generation 5: Geothermal crevice decks: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 geothermal crevice 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 golgari rotfarm 4 traitors roar The above design has 3 members while 4 other members of this family has replaced island with favor of the overbeing. ------------------------------------------------- Woodlurker mimic decks: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 somnomancer 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 woodlurker mimic 4 traitors roar 2 members of this family share this design. 1 member share the same design but has replaced island with abandoned outpost. 1 member share the first design but has replaced traitors roar with blight sickle. ------------------------------------------------- Barren moor decks: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 barren moor 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar 2 members share the above design but has replaced barrenton cragtreads with deft duelist. 2 members share the first design but has replaced sootwalkers with manamorphose. ------------------------------------------------- Ancient spring decks: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 memory sluice 4 ancient spring 3 members share the above design. 2 members share the same design but has replaced giant baiting with island. ------------------------------------------------- The riverfall mimic decks are very very different in design, and numbering 16 I havent got the time to post them I can say that most of the designs are earlier versions of the drain the well deck. Somehow the deck got to complex to be able to survive. In nature simplicity is always better. Somehow simplicity can get complex but thats another story. C ya all in about a week Took more than a week, and I'm 8 battles from finishing the next generation. The most "advanced" of the drain the well decks have died out. Now there are only primitive versions of it left. (Using only drain the well and elsewhere flask to cast it fast) A lot of different decktypes have started to spawn now, which is good, that means competition is moving away from a focus on lands and towards a more creaturebased war.
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1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 12:46AM #12
MoiMoi Date Joined: Sep 22, 2008 Posts: 950	You wrote a program to print cards at random, would you mind posting it here. I hope this new computer will not be broken as well I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
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1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 1:14AM #13
wickeddarkman Date Joined: Dec 15, 2011 Posts: 461	MOIMOI: It's for the c64, and only on the screen, not on paper But it goes something like this: 1dimcrd$(1000) 2crd$(1)="nip gwyllion" 3crd$(2)="shorecrasher mimic" and so on until all cards are registered in the program 3000 fori=1to10:gosub5999:nexti:end 5999 f=int(rnd(1)1000)+1 6000 printcrd$(f) 6001 f=int(rnd(1)15)+1 6002 print"location"; 6003 print f 6004 return But I think that's of no use to you ? I guess you wanted something that could print out the pictures of random cards? Sorry, but I'm not that good Also, I'm using the computer of an internet cafe in copenhagen central station (Except there is no cafe, just half a room with computers. So I have no programs on it Even more funny, it registers as a sweedish adress on the net, my hotmail is from germany and I'm sitting in Denmark. Quite a laugh!
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1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 2:57AM #14
bubba0077 Volunteer Community Lead blame me for the weather Date Joined: Feb 27, 2002 Posts: 9,843	I'm fairly famililar with GAs, and 10 generations isn't even going to get you started, especially with the enormous state space of Magic decks. If you really want to do this, I recommend reading up on genetic algorithms before trying again. I recommend Practical Genetic Algorithms by Randy and Sue Ellen Haupt, since Sue was one of my Ph.D. advisors. Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. • Also assisting the Paper Magic area for the time being. I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened. Spoiler: Show Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are. If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread (MTGO) or this thread (paper) to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread. General MTGO FAQ Yes, the Shuffler is Random! The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler. Magic Math Made Easy Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV Event EV Calculator Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel. Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the awesome avatar! QuotablesSpoiler: Show "While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
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1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 3:56AM #15
Glasir Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010 Posts: 2,038	Apr 20, 2012 -- 12:36AM, wickeddarkman wrote: In nature simplicity is always better. Indeed, that's why eukaryotes died out long ago. "Go, then. There are other worlds than these." -- Stephen King, The Gunslinger Some things to make the forums nicer -- Last updated 28 Apr Show A user annoying you? Make them disappear. Are some autocard images tiny? Fix them. Want the page titles to be useful? Try this. Improve the post editor Share and enjoy. Suggestions for new things to fix always welcome!
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1 year ago :: Apr 20, 2012 - 8:28AM #16
Dilleux_Lepaire Date Joined: Dec 6, 2005 Posts: 8,872	WDM wins the award of the longest post ever! Seriously, you should use sblocks when you're about to write such a long post. It helps when you categorize each part into a different sblock. Easier to browse! Rules Advisor Quotes Show Jan 10, 2011 -- 11:15AM, Uhhsam wrote: giving a magnet to a dude in a mask with a little dagger so he can single-handedly bring down the meanest fatty ever to annihilate a plane . Feb 23, 2011 -- 10:29AM, RPJesus wrote: Feb 23, 2011 -- 6:21AM, Dragon_Whelp wrote: Feb 23, 2011 -- 4:48AM, Riorvard wrote: Rancor dies to in-response removal. Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen. You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck. Apr 16, 2011 -- 12:06PM, Dragon_Whelp wrote: Apr 16, 2011 -- 12:02PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote: You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General. Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled. Apr 26, 2011 -- 5:10PM, Vektor480 wrote: I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it. May 3, 2011 -- 9:29AM, JustTerrorIt wrote: When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard. May 24, 2011 -- 12:02AM, SleetFox wrote: How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game? Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability. If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat. Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap. If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player. Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield. Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has? No freaking way. Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place. May 30, 2011 -- 5:57PM, Vektor480 wrote: The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor. Jul 6, 2011 -- 4:06AM, Purple_Shrimp wrote: 1. cast frankie peanuts 2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power 3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo 4. donate them a platinum angel 5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus , then play enchanted evening . play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever) 6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede Sep 8, 2011 -- 10:08AM, SereneChaos wrote: Sep 8, 2011 -- 10:03AM, JustTerrorIt wrote: Sep 8, 2011 -- 9:39AM, SereneChaos wrote: One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true. Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available. I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough? Sep 9, 2011 -- 11:30AM, ElvenSoma wrote: Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard. Sep 10, 2011 -- 2:58AM, Purple_Shrimp wrote: why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter Spoiler: Show to get to the other side Oct 8, 2011 -- 10:22AM, catowner wrote: You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate. Nov 7, 2011 -- 2:34AM, RPJesus wrote: Nov 7, 2011 -- 12:25AM, krichaiushii wrote: Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself. True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun. Nov 21, 2011 -- 12:09PM, Yanmato1 wrote: Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess. Nov 22, 2011 -- 6:59PM, rulesinquisitor wrote: Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww! Dec 5, 2011 -- 4:01PM, Gemstone386 wrote: Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread. Jan 21, 2012 -- 12:45PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote: And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work. Dec 14, 2011 -- 2:33PM, signofzeta wrote: They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell. Jan 22, 2012 -- 3:32AM, Escef wrote: Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious. Feb 5, 2012 -- 11:35AM, krichaiushii wrote: Feb 5, 2012 -- 8:48AM, garruk_rellentless wrote: i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left. I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers! Feb 23, 2012 -- 1:16PM, JustTerrorIt wrote: Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me). Feb 24, 2012 -- 2:29AM, RPJesus wrote: Feb 17, 2012 -- 8:07PM, SereneChaos wrote: If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong. No, they just spam them with ban requests . That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played). Mar 12, 2012 -- 11:50AM, RPJesus wrote: Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced. Mar 16, 2012 -- 11:06PM, catowner wrote: Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play Mar 21, 2012 -- 2:30PM, wickeddarkman wrote: But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!! Mar 21, 2012 -- 2:38PM, Terti wrote: In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:33PM, HairlessThoctar wrote: L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore. May 11, 2012 -- 5:18PM, TinGorilla wrote: The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs. Jun 15, 2012 -- 9:39AM, Burning_Forest wrote: Jun 15, 2012 -- 9:31AM, chinkeeyong wrote: Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil . whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways Jun 15, 2012 -- 4:36PM, RPJesus wrote: I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a ** :33. Jul 6, 2012 -- 5:47PM, RPJesus wrote: "Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings. Jul 16, 2012 -- 3:14PM, catowner wrote: Jul 16, 2012 -- 1:57PM, zpikduM wrote: Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun. Then we shall play in the shade. Jul 20, 2012 -- 6:02PM, catowner wrote: I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting storms. Aug 13, 2012 -- 7:17AM, bay_falconer wrote: Aug 12, 2012 -- 5:26PM, GM_Champion wrote: Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me. I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses. Aug 22, 2012 -- 7:07PM, RPJesus wrote: I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy ." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well *, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent." Aug 26, 2012 -- 11:18AM, RPJesus wrote: And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then." Sep 6, 2012 -- 7:35PM, Jessica_Morgan wrote: GM, I don't think* Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes. Oct 8, 2012 -- 9:15AM, AzureShade wrote: Oct 8, 2012 -- 9:10AM, EyeHunter wrote: Tamiyo vs. Gideon What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away. Oct 13, 2012 -- 12:42AM, Uhhsam wrote: I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win. Nov 5, 2012 -- 10:48AM, Renasce wrote: MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so. Nov 29, 2012 -- 9:00AM, bay_falconer wrote: Nov 29, 2012 -- 8:56AM, GeekyDad wrote: You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed. Because lol troll Dec 20, 2012 -- 9:49AM, Dragon_Nut wrote: It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day. Jan 13, 2013 -- 8:14AM, Catotheyounger wrote: Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work." Feb 5, 2013 -- 9:30AM, Jman22 wrote: Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic... Mar 5, 2013 -- 9:36AM, Astarael7 wrote: I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of 183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too. I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that. Apr 26, 2013 -- 7:53PM, Decktesting54 wrote: Apr 26, 2013 -- 3:50PM, Ebontail wrote: Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens. I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon.... May 9, 2013 -- 1:23PM, Smoke_Stack wrote: Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn . He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE. Break the Card Show What is Break the Card? Show Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft ) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing! Week 1 : Xenograft Show This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft . Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad . Week 2 : Mindlock Orb Show Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental. Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl Show Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck. Week 4 : Followed Footsteps Show This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck. Week 5 : Delaying Shield Show This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200. Week 6 : Painter's Servant Show This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck. Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner Show This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck. Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary Show This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite Show This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck. Week 10 : Jace's Archivist Show This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck. Week 11 : Search the City Show This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City". Week 12 : Fiend Hunter Show This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend". Week 13 : Clock of Omens Show This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching". Week 14 : Light of Sanction Show This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague". Week 15 : Assemble the Legion Show This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required". Week 16 : High Tide Show This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings". Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers Show This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers" Week 18 : Savor the Moment Show This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!" Week 19 : Grinning Ignus Show This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'". Week 20 : Transcendence Show This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win. Week 21 : Mortus Strider Show This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head". Week 22 : High Priest of Penance Show This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
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1 year ago :: Apr 21, 2012 - 12:22AM #17
Leftconsin Waghmonger Date Joined: Sep 27, 2005 Posts: 3,058	OK, so I finally took some time to look up the cards in the original deck and all I have to say is BLEH! Level 2 Magic Judge Lite a man a fire, warm him for a day. Light a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
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1 year ago :: Apr 21, 2012 - 12:47PM #18
razorborne Corporate Slave Date Joined: Mar 23, 2006 Posts: 19,333	this is actually a really interesting idea. I might try something similar, if I have the time. 120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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1 year ago :: Apr 22, 2012 - 12:31AM #19
wickeddarkman Date Joined: Dec 15, 2011 Posts: 461	BUBBA: Well, I can spoil that the 10 generations did not create something awesome, but it did manage to make something that could compete agaisnt legacy against the lower players, which is interresting. I don't like to base my stuff on genetics because it's oldfashioned due to horisontal genetic transfer by bacteria/virusses which shows us how complex nature is. I wanted to base stuff more on mutations than something that would achieve structure too fast. (And get locked down in solid patterns by that) I like to move in the more bizare area's of evolution But I can promise that the day when I can no longer find progress in the stuff I play with I will turn on genetic algorithms like a hawk. GLASIR: Onecelled lifeforms may have become too complex after all they would really have to cram stuff around inside themselves. Splitting different functions between more cells are a remarkably simple solution. Imagine if you had to be your own programmer, carpenter, doctor, hunter, salesman, roadbuilder+ whatever jobs you can think of?? Nah, distribiting stuff is the lazy and logical solution to a complex world. In fact it has recently been discovered that bacteria prefer to get rid of immunity parts of their dna, opting to let other bacteria reliant on that dna-section carry it around until the whole bacterial fauna needs that snippet, then that section is spread like a wildfire. Bacteria's work on a common infrastructure by having these habits! LEFTCONSIN: By starting with a bad deck it's easier to see the grandeur of what evolves within only 10 generations RAZORBORNE: Start with a smaller population like 20. I can give you advice on how to arrange sleeves and archives and other details to speed up the process. But be prepared to get your sparetime ripped away from you
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1 year ago :: Apr 22, 2012 - 12:44AM #20
wickeddarkman Date Joined: Dec 15, 2011 Posts: 461	The last 5 generations are now open for reading! (And comments) ***************************************************************************** First things first: Families alive: riverfall: 5 members, 16 before. geothermal: 16 members, 7 before. ancient: 7 members, 5 before. barren: 2 members, 4 before. woodlurker: 6 members, 4 before. Geothermal crevice decks have spread successfully through 2 mutations. first it lost memory sluice and gained golgari rot farm, which made it grow a lot, then it lost wanderbrine rootcutters and gained shambling shell, which is currently making the decktype into the strongest yet seen. The mana in it is starting to turn a lot into pure B/G with a splash of red mana, which may or may not disappear. By using shambling shell this deck is now faster than most others, and has almost unlimited creatures to fight with if it manages to get a shell in hand/grave. Riverfall mimic decks have lost 11 members during this single generation. (Probably being predated by geothermal decks). This is quite drastic, and is far more destruction than I thought could take place during a single generation. All the lesser decks (Except barren moor) seems to have risen a bit. Perhaps they are in some way superior to the geothermal deck? Only time will tell. ------------------------------------------------- The land era is almost over. Decks are a lot more creature focussed, and the usual spells are now being used in new ways. For some time barkshell blessing has become an antidote against traitors roar (By tapping creatures before the roar resolves). It is a farstretched antidote, but may become the difference between life or death. Æthertow has becomming harder to plan with because decks have become less reluctant to attack, and it's all about numbers and colors with the color-walk-creatures. Sometimes situations have developed where the deck that attacks first die, which means that traitors roar is the winning card. In general decks are very aggressive, and wins/loses are generally due to an opponent drawing less creatures. ------------------------------------------------- A lot of interresting mutations have started up in different decks. Sparring collar has replaced some mountains in one deck, reducing this design to 16 lands. But having elsewhere flask in the mix has helped this decktype to survive. When it gets the leash on a creature it is quickly winning the game. There are times where it doesn't get enough mana to do that, and these times it simply dies. It is difficult to estimate wether or not it will survive long enough to gain more land again, thus becomming very balanced. Favor of the overbeing has also spread out a lot through one decktype with plenty of lands. The deck is very capeable of winning when it gets a U or G creature with the favor on it. It does fail big when it is hit by æthertow, but this happens rarely enough for the design to be very efficient so far. ------------------------------------------------- Decks still using old cards: Barrenton cragtreads: 29 decks Mudbrawler raiders: 34 decks Ravens run dragoon: 36 decks Sootwalkers: 35 decks Wanderbrine rootcutters: 32 decks --- Æthertow: 17 decks Barkshell blessing: 34 decks Giant baiting: 22 decks Memory sluice: 14 decks Traitors roar: 26 decks Annoyingly the color-walk-creatures seem to be stuck in the design. I think they may last in there past generation 10, which I hoped they would'nt. But then again, every deck I have been cheering on have died brutally. I think mainly because I have tended to cheer on decks suffering from "Danger of doing cool stuff", meaning that just because it looked like a cool combo forming, it wasn't a good form it was in!!! *************************************************************************** Families alive: riverfall: 1 members, 5 before. geothermal: 25 members, 16 before. ancient: 8 members, 7 before. woodlurker: 2 members, 6 before. Decks still using old cards: Barrenton cragtreads: 34 decks, 29 before Mudbrawler raiders: 33 decks, 34 before Ravens run dragoon: 36 decks, 36 before Sootwalkers: 36 decks, 35 before Wanderbrine rootcutters: 27 decks, 32 before --- Æthertow: 9 decks, 17 before Barkshell blessing: 36 decks, 34 before Giant baiting: 23 decks, 22 before Memory sluice: 10 decks, 14 before Traitors roar: 27 decks, 26 before ------------------------------------------------- The last riverfall mimic deck alive: 4 plains 4 boros garrison 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 riverfall mimic 4 memory sluice 4 traitors roar This deck only deviates from the prototype-design with 2 mutations, and was very successfull at a time. I give it a survival rate of 5% ------------------------------------------------- Woodlurker mimic deck: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 remote farm 4 forest 4 somnomancer 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 whispersilk cloak 4 woodlurker mimic 4 blight sickle This deck mutated in the last moment, and because of the whispersilk cloak (It's mutation) I think it might have a chance. It's only other relative has giant baiting instead, which hasn't helped the deck to survive. This version is the last hope for this family. I rate it's survival to 25% maybe even as high as 50%. ------------------------------------------------- Ancient spring: With 8 members (7 before) this family shows immunity against the onslaught of the geothermal family. I list 1 version (Has 3 members): 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 drill skimmer 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 æthertow 4 barkshell blessing 4 island 4 memory sluice 4 ancient spring Just why it seems so immune to geothermals is hard to see, but it has to be because of it's choice in mana. The drillskimmer is a relatively new adition to this family, but seems to be thriving already. ------------------------------------------------- GEOTHERMALS: 25 members in total, divided into 3 large subfamilies with even smaller sub-subfamilies. Most widespread: 4 plains 4 island 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 shambling shell 4 geothermal crevice 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 golgari rot farm 4 traitors roar The medium size: 4 plains 4 favor of the overbeing 4 swamp 4 mountain 4 forest 4 barrenton cragtreads 4 mudbrawler raiders 4 ravens run dragoon 4 sootwalkers 4 wanderbrine rootcutters 4 geothermal crevice 4 barkshell blessing 4 giant baiting 4 golgari rot farm 4 traitors roar The small size version has no favor, but island instead. ------------------------------------------------- So far this situation pleases me. Last time I had an evolutionproject like this it ended with two families locked in what looked like what would become an eternal struggle. The same situation may happen this time... ------------------------------------------------- With only 3 more generations to do before 1st goal is achieved I have been planning ahead. I may abbandon this project in favor of a version based on all the competitive decks in the commonkill environment, or even take it into the legacy environment. *************************************************************************** Geothermal 25, 25 before. Woodlurker 0, 2 before. Riverfall 1, 1 before. ancient 10, 8 before. So the geothermal expansion has been halted! with no doubt by ancient decktypes. ------------------------------------------------- DECKLISTS: Riverfall, the last pathetic mutation alive! plains centaur safeguard goblin war waggon mountains forests barrenton cragtreads mudbrawler raiders ravens run dragoon sootwalkers wanderbrine rootcutters æthertow barkshell blessing riverfall mimic memory sluice traitors roar It was a long trip, but since this is the mutant offspring of the previous last survivor and it gained a second devastating mutation (GWW) I count it as dead. I'd have a heart attack if this one survives and spread ------------------------------------------------- Geothermal Golem: plains islands swamps mountains forests barrenton cragtreads mudbrawler raiders ravens run dragoon cobalt golem wanderbrine rootcutters geothermal crevice barkshell blessing giant baiting golgari rot farm traitors roar This variant is spreading. Probably because of the decrease of geothermals with shambling shell. ------------------------------------------------- THE OPPOSITION: ------------------------------------------------- Drill skimmer, an ancient spring deck: plains islands swamps mountains forests barrenton cragtreads drill skimmer ravens run dragoon sootwalkers wanderbrine rootcutters æthertow barkshell blessing island memory sluice ancient spring I found it rather strange that this decktype could compete with shambling shell decks, but the lack of wanderbrine rootcutters in shambling, and the massive blue mana in this type seems to be the core reason for it's success! ------------------------------------------------- plains islands swamps mountains forests barrenton cragtreads mudbrawler raiders ravens run dragoon sootwalkers wanderbrine rootcutters kederekt creeper barkshell blessing island memory sluice ancient spring I have also been baffled by the survival rate of this one. It is about to become the dominant lifeform. The use of kederekt creeper is quite weird! The creeper is unable to block a lot of walkers, but is pretty devastating as an attacker when it hits early. It's only real weakness is that it desperately needs more red mana, but havent got it yet. It's true strenght is that it has more creatures in total than other decktypes. ------------------------------------------------- So far evolution has been fooling around with the decks in such a calm way that I have been quite frustrated. Sometimes something jumps the evolutionary ladder with 3 good mutations in a row, only to die because it somehow has lost something in that run which is undefinable until heavy research is made. At all times the most important factor in winning has been mana-mutations and more creatures than others. Nothing complex is really forming, which is quite annoying when I want complexity. There has been complexity, but it always die out. It is a GODdamn "survival of the simplest" situation. The current perspective on evolution is that it constantly increases in complexity, but so far this has'nt happened with this project. It has more been like "Sometimes the most simple organisms are those that survive!" Only two generations left. *************************************************************************** At last I pulled myself together and finnished that damn generation. I guess what has keeping me back is lack of faith in how it is evolving, because I really am at a loss at seing through it all. It's all shrouded in clouds of unfathomable mists and I keep banging into obstacles during my analysises (Can I say analysises ?) ------------------------------------------------- Riverfall: 1 deck, 1 before. Ancient spring: 6 decks, 10 before. Geothermal: 29 decks, 25 before. As you can see the riverfall deck managed to win a figth, then one of these versions died, keeping it at 1 deck for the third time in a row. This is extremely unusual. No other design with only 12 lands has hold it's ground for so long, which is probably because of a very messy era with lots of unstable deckmutations. The best way to sum it up is by "displaying" the 20 known species around by this time. ------------------------------------------------- Ye olde geothermal: 4 decks. Has been around forever and holds it's ground pretty well. To do that it must be very stable in design, which must be from the time it gained golgari rot farm so far back in time. Golgari rot farm is probably the very reason why this deck grew so numerous. It has currently spread into 7 different species. Steel favor: 1 deck. A remnant of the time where favor of the overbeing had it's great times. This is the last favordeck and probably will go extinct. This deck is rather far removed from the other geothermal decks. Loamdragger giant: 5 decks. Currently the most successfull species, with 5 members. it is 2 mutations away from the geothermal design and has had quite a lot of success, bringing geothermal crevice to greater use than ever before (Along with golgari rot farm) There are two threats against it! roar of the traitor and galina's knight! Herbal geothermal: 1 deck. just a mutant. Will probably die! Cobalt crevice: 2 decks. A mutant using cobalt golem. may be on the rise. Esper panorama: 2 decks. This new mutation in geothermal has brought about 2 other mutants. Foothill guide: 2 decks. Born from the esper-strain. Esper seems to lend strength to the original geothermal design. this may be luck or it may be the next step in evolution. Aquamorph entity: 1 deck. Born from foothill guide this is an unstable mutant, which has lost it's blue manasources, but has several morphing creatures. Destiny unknown! Geothermal consume: 2 decks. Another mutant which may be on the rise. Geothermal hoof: 1 deck. Uses hoof skulkin. New mutation with unknown potential. But may die rather suddenly Shambling shell: 3 decks. Still alive and kicking, the mutated offspring of ye olde geothermal has lost a serious amount of ground. However it is alive with the third highest ammount of members and has spawned some mutants that may rule the world. Lumithread shambler: 2 decks. I predict this shambler mutant to kick out as the next big deck. it has lost barkshell blessing but won lumithread fields in return, making it the most defensively capeable deck around. And it has the shambler which gives it agressive advantages as well. I love it. Scarscale: 1 deck. Spawned from Shambling shell it spawned another rather strange mutant itself. Unknown potential, but weakened by it's loss of lands. Scarscale command: 2 decks. Spawned from... (well you guessed it) Even more distorted but somehow spreading out. unknown potential. This was the geothermal families. Must go now. Had to put money in the damn machine :D ------------------------------------------------- Appart from the geothermal families (numbering 14 species total) there is the riverfall mimic family, but since it is consisting of 1 deck only (1 species) I'll just taunt it evilly once more by ignoring that shiddy little mutant and go on to the third family with 6 members divided into 5 species. ------------------------------------------------- Fang stalactite: 1 decks. I cannot see where it's connection in the ancient spring family started (Well I could, but I havent got ALL notes with me on this project. most are at home, so i cannot see it now) I have obsolutelly no idea of how this deck will move through the future. Creeper deck: 1 deck. Part of the smoldering creeper family's original design, this is the last. It once spread out but now it's feeling a bit alone. If it wasn't for it's mutant spawn! Golem creeper: 2 decks. Will the addition of oxidda golem be what brings creeper family back into the bussiness? Maybe, because it has managed to replicate itself once, which is usually a good sign of progress. But since just about every other mutated deck in the geothermal family has done the same feat, things are not looking too bright. Galina's knight: 1 deck. The era of galina decks have never really been there. It has somehow survived in small numbers for a long time but is now down to 1. It's future may depend on how widespread the loamdragger giant decks become, as it is the only deck with real good immunity against it. It has managed to spread into 1 mutant. Galina's skerry: 1 deck. A mutant which has gained saprazzan skerry, but I seem to remember that one of the galina decks lost it's plains. Let's hope it wasn't this one, or it will be at the mercy of everything else (Probably. No guarantee offered ) ------------------------------------------------- Things are running the wrong direction it seems. I predicted that the ancient spring family would end up counterbalancing the geothermals in some sort of eternal struggle, but with only 6 members alive, and all of a dubious nature I may have been largelly mistaken. Ah such is the nature of life! The geothermals have had so much chaos spreading down through it's ranks. it seems that stability is the eternal remedy. ye olde geothermal deck (4 members) really has been around for quite a while. It's most successfull spawn seems to lose against it quite often (You see to gain shambling shell it lost the rootcutters which remained in ye olde, giving ye olde an advantage against it's own child. So the fate of shambler decks are determined by it's parent's success. If the parent loses many battles, the child seems to rise in numbers, and as it is at it's strongest it boost's it's parents chances of survival. Remember about the MOB theory in manasolutions, where families keep each other at bay, but rules above everything else in unision?) (Phew, quite a long parenthesis) The currently best mutations I have seen are: Lumithread field: Gives extreme defence, and an earlier beater than most. It could'nt have found a better deck or position in that deck than it did. (At least that's what I think!) Foothill guide: Protection from goblins ??? Quite hillarious, untill you realize that one of the most succesfull cards throughout this project history has been mudbrawlwer raiders, which happens to be a goblin. Foothill guide is capaable of going morph which means it can block all "walkers", but it's ability to block goblins indefinetly is really something. Yay for weird mutations. Loamdragger giant: Very widespread allready. It must be good. But traitor's roar may become it's achille's heel! Well Gotta go to work now. Hope you enjoyed this night's ramblings Oh yeah, forgot to write this yesterday! ------------------------------------------------- AIGH! The mutant is spawning!??? For some reason the single extremely lousy stinking stupid riverfall deck simply can't accept it's obvious fate and die. Instead it has multiplied by winning a game in a very stunning way. It does have only 12 lands, and it has a spell which is locked down because no mana can be gained in that color. Appart from that, the deck is'nt that bad! (Well, I think it is, but it seems to disagree) By having such a low ammount of lands, it just put critter after critter into play each turn (Or response to the game in some way). So I figure, when it meets a deck that is not too fast, it may actually ambush it with speed through spells. (Or spellbursting as I once called it!) I'm baffled !!! I utterly hate this deck! Please let fate destroy it before I get too tempted and contaminate the experiment by erradicating it myself &¤#&¤ *************************************************************************** QUOTE: "At last I pulled myself together and finnished that damn generation." Happened again Except this time "evolving" stuff is far more visible, which is why I may become more active with the last 2 generations. (Promise they are the last) ------------------------------------------------- Riverfall: 0 deck, 1 before. Ancient spring: 10 decks, 6 before. Geothermal: 26 decks, 29 before. As you can see the riverfall deck finally died out! Impressive figth to stay alive though Last time there were 20 species. This time there are 17 which I will be "displaying". Ye olde geothermal: 4 decks. (4 last time) Has been around forever and still holds it's ground pretty well. It has currently spread into 6 different species. Loamdragger giant: 2 decks. (5 last time) Going from the most successfull species, to weakened. Cobalt crevice: 2 decks. (2 last time) A mutant using cobalt golem. Seems to hold its ground. Esper panorama (Old one): 2 decks. (2 last time) Has lost it's spawns, but seems to hold it on it's own. New panorama: 1 deck. (0 last time) A child of ye olde geothermal which has got the esper panorama mutation in another location than the first one. Interresting! Geothermal consume: 1 decks. (2 last time) Another mutant which may be on the fall. Geothermal hoof: 2 deck. (1 last time) Uses hoof skulkin. Managed to spawn. Nice move hoof Shambling shell: 3 decks. (3 last time) Still going strong! It's success is based on how much it's "father" ye olde geothermal has spread. There seems to be some sort of balance forming around these two decks. Lumithread shambler: 4 decks. (2 Last time) Behaves as predicted. I really love this one. Hydrox shambler: 2 decks. (0 last time) The Petra hydrox mutation is back! Last time it was in the environment it quickly developed some interresting mutations, but for some reason it died out. This is it's second chance, and it is already having a "combo" through shambling shell which may be used to bounce it. The hydrox may provide the long awaited immunity against traitors roar which has been so successfull since the time of dawn. Very interesting mutation. I'll follow this one closely Scarscale command: 3 deck. (2 last time) Strangely enough it's having some fun. What a weird thing it is!!! This was the geothermal families. Appart from the geothermal families (numbering 26 species total) there is only the ancient spring family left. ------------------------------------------------- Creeper deck: 3 deck. (1 last time) It managed to bounce back again. Spawning 1 new mutant currently. Golem creeper: 1 decks. (2 last time) Still being weigthed I guess. May bounce up, may die. I have no idea of what way it will turn. It has potential though. Duergar creeper: 2 decks. (0 last time) A new mutant with duergar assailant instead of plains!!! Golden creeper: 1 deck. (0 last time) Also a new mutant, has gained golden myr but lost (was it islands???) rather peculiar i think! Galina's knight: 2 deck. (2 last time) Stable, but has lost it's spawn. Galina's signet: 1 deck. (0 last time) A mutant which has gained the GW signet. It's the spawn of a now dead galina mutation. ------------------------------------------------ So everything is starting to look like I wanted them to be. (amazing really). With only 2 generations left to go before the "big analysis" lots of things may still go wrong, but currently the big geothermal (26 members) is making room for ancient spring (10 members). Which was very close to not happen. Very close. I'm pretty satisfied by things now. After the "chaos" with lots of "bad quality" mutations things are grouping together to form what really seems to become decks with concepts that look like someone have been given some thoughts into them. It's finally starting to behave as it should. I can't wait to see how my next project with vertical genetic transfer will turn out. It will start out using the same core-deck as this project, which seems only fair, and will probably add another dimension to it all. C Y A. *************************************************************************** I'm slowing down a bit on the next two generations as I am also beginning to analyze what I got already. I have created family-tree's for all 12 families, some more complex than the others (The geothermal family was REALLY advanced as a tree when compared to the other families) I will also make a list of the most successfull decks through the project so that you will get a more detailed view of what actually went on through the whole project. Okay! I'm working on the great analysis now, and boy is it gonna be huge! It's the biggest post I so far have been working on, and it really will be tremendously huge! It will be written in the "form" of a familly tree where I write down every change in the "genetic" makeup so every detail will be available! Initially the post will just be the entire decklists involved. (There is about 400 different individual decklists, but some of them will luckwise be repeats of each others :D) I do not look forward to the posts to follow after that, because that is where all the theory will have to come in, and interpretation will be nearby impossible for me, so you will generally be on your own :P Typically me I'm swamping the project in favor of another project! Right now I'm still in a sim-war with those other Danes! I am compiling a lot of different solution-data in an attempt to convince the others that they should try to build the same version as I am using, which is having results that they disbelieved from the very beginning, but as I gather more evidence that my program could'nt possibly be generating these results by programming-errors i hope they will be convinced! So main-project is temporarily delayed **************************************************************************** And that's as far as I got before trying to show all the stuff with manasolutions in Denmark... But that's another story. I still have the archives from this project (Lots of organized paperslips) and if the interrest is there I might analyse it and post the final comments about that project... I'm still working on a larger scale of this project, involving the 500 most used legacycards and with a population of 100.
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