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Flag Garmichael April 17, 2012 4:03 PM PDT
This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Flag Vektor480 April 17, 2012 9:05 PM PDT
This is the coolest flavor text ever!
Flag Fenix. April 17, 2012 9:11 PM PDT
I like the card but... why does it cost 5?

It could easily have costed 4 and maybe even less, given how risky it is.

I really like the "loner" idea Wizards, but you don't seem interested in making it work. Only Demonix Taskmaster has been playable so far and the 2 enchantments (both costing 5CMC) have been really disappointing and generally not worth the effort.
Flag pedrodyl April 17, 2012 9:53 PM PDT
An underwhelming card to say the least
Flag Guest25859149 April 17, 2012 10:14 PM PDT
Oh.... we allow swearing on MTG cards now?
Flag DeEer April 18, 2012 12:33 AM PDT

Apr 17, 2012 -- 9:05PM, Vektor480 wrote:

This is the coolest flavor text ever!



So agreed upon  

Flag Qmark April 18, 2012 12:35 AM PDT
It's just awful.

Five mana buys creatures that are nigh-awesome all on their own nowadays.  It's just stupid to blow that mana on an enchantment that does nothing by itself, and requires an extremely vulnerable gamestate to do anything at all.
Flag Senyuno April 18, 2012 12:40 AM PDT

Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:45PM, Amarsir wrote:

This card though ... 5 mana and as always the 2-for-1 of auras.



WTF?


 Anyway, card is a gamebreaker in limited. Turning on any creature to be a win condition or even just massive piece of stall? Dang. It has weaknesses, but the promise of power is unlike anything I've seen at uncommon before. It doesn't even feel uncommon.

Flag DragonMudd April 18, 2012 7:30 AM PDT

Apr 17, 2012 -- 10:14PM, Guest25859149 wrote:

Oh.... we allow swearing on MTG cards now?




In card names alone:
Army of the Damned
Ghosts of the Damned
Screams of the Damned
Songs of the Damned
Temp of the Damned
Wet Willie of the Damned
Yoke of the Damned
Damnation
Choice of Damnations


In regards to the card. Wow, this is terrible. And you can tell Sadin things so too "Well... it's bad if A or B or C or D or E happens... but in those rare instances when you play this card and happen to find yourself in a narrow situation, it'll be great!"

I mean, if it didn't have the restriction it would still be a narrow and questionable card. With the restriction, it's just awful.

Flag Freeman74 April 18, 2012 7:49 AM PDT

Heck, if you pair Homicidal Seclusion with Howlgeist, it won't take long before you've put your opponents completely out of their misery. At first, you'll be attacking with a 7/3 lifelinking creature that can only be blocked by the set's biggest creatures (as of writing this article, the only cards in the Avacyn Restored Card Image Gallery that will be able to block a Homicidal Seclusioned Howlgeist are Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Griselbrand). And if your opponent does find a way to kill it the first time, then you'll have an 8/4 lifelinker that's still almost impossible to block.




How does this work? I assumed that when the undying creature went to the graveyard the enchantment and effects were lost when it reenters the battlefield. Am I missing something?

Flag Fearsomecritter April 18, 2012 7:55 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 7:49AM, Freeman74 wrote:

Heck, if you pair Homicidal Seclusion with Howlgeist, it won't take long before you've put your opponents completely out of their misery. At first, you'll be attacking with a 7/3 lifelinking creature that can only be blocked by the set's biggest creatures (as of writing this article, the only cards in the Avacyn Restored Card Image Gallery that will be able to block a Homicidal Seclusioned Howlgeist are Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Griselbrand). And if your opponent does find a way to kill it the first time, then you'll have an 8/4 lifelinker that's still almost impossible to block.




How does this work? I assumed that when the undying creature went to the graveyard the enchantment and effects were lost when it reenters the battlefield. Am I missing something?




Yes, this is a non-aura enchantment. It stays on the battlefield humming until its condition is met and then powers a creature up.

Flag Freeman74 April 18, 2012 8:02 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 7:55AM, Fearsomecritter wrote:

Apr 18, 2012 -- 7:49AM, Freeman74 wrote:

Heck, if you pair Homicidal Seclusion with Howlgeist, it won't take long before you've put your opponents completely out of their misery. At first, you'll be attacking with a 7/3 lifelinking creature that can only be blocked by the set's biggest creatures (as of writing this article, the only cards in the Avacyn Restored Card Image Gallery that will be able to block a Homicidal Seclusioned Howlgeist are Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Griselbrand). And if your opponent does find a way to kill it the first time, then you'll have an 8/4 lifelinker that's still almost impossible to block.




How does this work? I assumed that when the undying creature went to the graveyard the enchantment and effects were lost when it reenters the battlefield. Am I missing something?




Yes, this is a non-aura enchantment. It stays on the battlefield humming until its condition is met and then powers a creature up.


Ok, I get it. Didn't look/read closely enough. Thanks

Flag Aethermcloud April 18, 2012 8:08 AM PDT
This is one of the worst cards I've seen in a long time. Compare Armadillo Cloak : It costs 3, gives +2/+2, trample and lifelink and doesn't have any downsides besides being an aura.
Flag phaseshifter April 18, 2012 8:25 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 12:40AM, Senyuno wrote:

Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:45PM, Amarsir wrote:

This card though ... 5 mana and as always the 2-for-1 of auras.



WTF?


 Anyway, card is a gamebreaker in limited. Turning on any creature to be a win condition or even just massive piece of stall? Dang. It has weaknesses, but the promise of power is unlike anything I've seen at uncommon before. It doesn't even feel uncommon.




Limited is where this card is weakest actually. How are you going to stall if you only have 1 creature and your opponent has several? And why would you want to? If you stall with the only threat you ave, how do you win?


I don't know who's idea it was to have this card previewd in limited information. But I would have hated to write for it.  Sadin did a good job considering.

A 5 mana enchantment that only does anything when you're in a risky board position, and works best with uncommon creatures?

Yeah, that's totally what I want in limited. 

Flag DeEer April 18, 2012 8:36 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 7:30AM, DragonMudd wrote:

Apr 17, 2012 -- 10:14PM, Guest25859149 wrote:

Oh.... we allow swearing on MTG cards now?




In card names alone:
Army of the Damned
Ghosts of the Damned
Screams of the Damned
Songs of the Damned
Temp of the Damned
Wet Willie of the Damned
Yoke of the Damned
Damnation
Choice of Damnations


In regards to the card. Wow, this is terrible. And you can tell Sadin things so too "Well... it's bad if A or B or C or D or E happens... but in those rare instances when you play this card and happen to find yourself in a narrow situation, it'll be great!"

I mean, if it didn't have the restriction it would still be a narrow and questionable card. With the restriction, it's just awful.



maybe i got you wrong, but are you saying if the card read:
creatures you control get +3/+1 and lifelink
it would still be a narrow and questionable card?? 

Flag Talionis April 18, 2012 8:38 AM PDT
The problem is that card could easily be two or three mana and be properly mana to powerlevel.  The card is so situational that it is its own weakness.  Its a nice power up to Hexproof strategies, but it forces you to be more vulnerable to effects that make you sacrifice a creature. 

The card is too expensive to consider playing. I'm not sure its even playable in Limited.  It is certainly not a bomb in limited. 
Flag Xactiphyn April 18, 2012 10:02 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 8:36AM, DeEer wrote:


maybe i got you wrong, but are you saying if the card read:
creatures you control get +3/+1 and lifelink
it would still be a narrow and questionable card?? 




He meant if the enchantment acted like an equipment, affected only one creature but had no limitation of other creatures being in play.  In that case, it would compare well to Loxodon Warhammer, so I disagree it would be a narrow and questionable card.  As it is, though, it is hard to imagine it being very good.

That said, you know there will be games where this thing just steals victories.   You're almost dead, only one creature left and way behind in life.  You then drop this enchantment and attack, which gains you enough life to keep you out of the kill zone.  But then, having this until-then useless card in your hand the whole game might be part of the reason you were in such bad shape to begin with.

Flag DragonMudd April 18, 2012 10:27 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 8:36AM, DeEer wrote:

Apr 18, 2012 -- 7:30AM, DragonMudd wrote:

Apr 17, 2012 -- 10:14PM, Guest25859149 wrote:

Oh.... we allow swearing on MTG cards now?




In card names alone:
Army of the Damned
Ghosts of the Damned
Screams of the Damned
Songs of the Damned
Temp of the Damned
Wet Willie of the Damned
Yoke of the Damned
Damnation
Choice of Damnations


In regards to the card. Wow, this is terrible. And you can tell Sadin things so too "Well... it's bad if A or B or C or D or E happens... but in those rare instances when you play this card and happen to find yourself in a narrow situation, it'll be great!"

I mean, if it didn't have the restriction it would still be a narrow and questionable card. With the restriction, it's just awful.



maybe i got you wrong, but are you saying if the card read:
creatures you control get +3/+1 and lifelink
it would still be a narrow and questionable card?? 





Actually, I got the card wrong. Should've had my coffee before reading and posting about the card. I thought this was an aura.

Flag Paralistalon April 18, 2012 2:06 PM PDT
Not too bad with Invisible Stalker and Demonmail Hauberk .
Flag mikew808 April 18, 2012 3:26 PM PDT
Nice try in what had to be a most difficult assignment: Finding a way to sell this card as a preview feature.

Constructed:

Maybe some genius will break this and prove the majority wrong. Like a Battle of Wits breaker. Maybe block con with the aforementioned divine reckoning.

Limited:

This card is a clogger. 5 for an enchantment with such a narrow application. Bitterheart Witch at least puts a 1/2 deathtouch in play.
I don't know, but I don't think there's a lot of limited players that want to only have 1 creature in play. Unless you're a control savant.
This is a late pick, I forgot to draft creatures, kind of card.

I can just hear the lamentations when people bust this in paper and say "what a waste of an uncommon."

Flag goblinrecruiter April 19, 2012 3:51 AM PDT

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:26PM, mikew808 wrote:

I don't know, but I don't think there's a lot of limited players that want to only have 1 creature in play. Unless you're a control savant.
This is a late pick, I forgot to draft creatures, kind of card.



That might be true in a typical Limited format, but we haven't seen the whole set, and we know that loners are enough of a theme to warrant inclusion on the mechanics page.  The fact that Sadin was given this as a preview card in the first place indicates that it will probably be feasible (although not trivial) to draft a loner deck.

Flag DragonMudd April 19, 2012 8:03 AM PDT

Apr 19, 2012 -- 3:51AM, goblinrecruiter wrote:

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:26PM, mikew808 wrote:

I don't know, but I don't think there's a lot of limited players that want to only have 1 creature in play. Unless you're a control savant.
This is a late pick, I forgot to draft creatures, kind of card.



That might be true in a typical Limited format, but we haven't seen the whole set, and we know that loners are enough of a theme to warrant inclusion on the mechanics page.  The fact that Sadin was given this as a preview card in the first place indicates that it will probably be feasible (although not trivial) to draft a loner deck.




The development side of me is hoping that , because of soulbond, this set has extra removal. Especially if this removal is heavily in black, where the loners are. That means you can draft up a removal/control deck with loners and it will be able to hold off those soulbonders and take advantage of the weakness.

I feel that if this isn't the case, then soulbond is going to be extremely overpowered in the set.

Flag chronego April 19, 2012 3:14 PM PDT

Apr 19, 2012 -- 8:03AM, DragonMudd wrote:

Apr 19, 2012 -- 3:51AM, goblinrecruiter wrote:

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:26PM, mikew808 wrote:

I don't know, but I don't think there's a lot of limited players that want to only have 1 creature in play. Unless you're a control savant.
This is a late pick, I forgot to draft creatures, kind of card.



That might be true in a typical Limited format, but we haven't seen the whole set, and we know that loners are enough of a theme to warrant inclusion on the mechanics page.  The fact that Sadin was given this as a preview card in the first place indicates that it will probably be feasible (although not trivial) to draft a loner deck.




The development side of me is hoping that , because of soulbond, this set has extra removal. Especially if this removal is heavily in black, where the loners are. That means you can draft up a removal/control deck with loners and it will be able to hold off those soulbonders and take advantage of the weakness.

I feel that if this isn't the case, then soulbond is going to be extremely overpowered in the set.


If there is more removal than normal, then Loners are going to be even weaker than in other Limited environments. If it's easier to kill a creature, than relying on just one creature is going to be harder, no?

Flag DragonMudd April 19, 2012 3:28 PM PDT

Apr 19, 2012 -- 3:14PM, chronego wrote:

Apr 19, 2012 -- 8:03AM, DragonMudd wrote:

Apr 19, 2012 -- 3:51AM, goblinrecruiter wrote:

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:26PM, mikew808 wrote:

I don't know, but I don't think there's a lot of limited players that want to only have 1 creature in play. Unless you're a control savant.
This is a late pick, I forgot to draft creatures, kind of card.



That might be true in a typical Limited format, but we haven't seen the whole set, and we know that loners are enough of a theme to warrant inclusion on the mechanics page.  The fact that Sadin was given this as a preview card in the first place indicates that it will probably be feasible (although not trivial) to draft a loner deck.




The development side of me is hoping that , because of soulbond, this set has extra removal. Especially if this removal is heavily in black, where the loners are. That means you can draft up a removal/control deck with loners and it will be able to hold off those soulbonders and take advantage of the weakness.

I feel that if this isn't the case, then soulbond is going to be extremely overpowered in the set.


If there is more removal than normal, then Loners are going to be even weaker than in other Limited environments. If it's easier to kill a creature, than relying on just one creature is going to be harder, no?




Sorry, I meant that the removal would be in the loner player's deck and not in the other decks (so heavily/exclusively in black and unsplashable). It would take a very perfect balance that might not even be theoretically possible, which is why I think this limited environment is going to be ruined by soulbond.

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