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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 8:58AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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I played in the first Seattle PTQ this weekend in Lubbock, and there was a rule change that caught everyone by surprise. Apparently, sleeves that have holograms on the front (i.e. Ultra Pro) can no longer be used, and only sleeves with nothing on the front are legal (Dragon Shield, KMC).
Does anyone know of the rationale behind it, or what Ultra Pro did to tick Wizards off for them to make this ruling?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 9:02AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2010
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I don't know the exact reasons behind it, but my guess is that it would have to do with marking a sleeve. People can't pay as close attention to a sleeve if it has patterns on it, so a person may mark a card, and the opponent wouldn't really notice anything differently.
I'm still of the belief that marking cards is dumb and gives you such a small advantage that it's neglegable, but that's all that I can think of.
I know there was/is a rule about how you can't have super shiny sleeves, because people may "accidentally" start to draw two to see the reflection of the next card in the sleeve. I still say it's dumb, but that's how the game goes.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 9:11AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2004
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Seriously. They probably caught one person attempting to cheat with them in one tournament and went insane with trying to prevent it from happening again. I mean you can't look at the front of the card anyway so I'm not even sure how you can cheat.
It could have been a local ruling and not a ruling by wotc. They would have announced this kind of change on their website. Unless I missed something.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 9:32AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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It wasn't local. The TO had a printed out list of the new rules that went into effect with the new PTQ, and had highlighted the part about the sleeves to show everyone. Unless it was misinterpreted by a lot of people (myself included), there has been a change.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 9:36AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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Actually here is the wording in 3.10 of the MTR, third paragraph, last sentence:
"sleeves with holograms across some or all of the sleeve front or back are not allowed"
This was interpreted that even the little Ultra-Pro hologram wasn't allowed.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 10:01AM
#6
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Im going to go out on a limb and say that was probably grossly misinterpreted. It seems highly unlikely considering all of the licensing deals between WOTC and Ultra Pro, and that WOTC's own website describes Ultra Pro as "the leading manufacturer of trading card game sleeves and deck boxes. They make Magic portfolios, card storage boxes, deck boxes, sleeves, and playmats".
Also Im pretty sure there is no reasonable way for the tiny Ultra Pro trademark symbol to be used for cheating.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 10:46AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2011
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I agree with you, especially due to the Ultra Pro agreement, which is why I found it surprsing that he enforced it as such. Just wondering if anyone else had had a similar experience or if Wizards had make any sort of clarification on the subject.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 12:08PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Also Im pretty sure there is no reasonable way for the tiny Ultra Pro trademark symbol to be used for cheating.
Believe it or not, it can be used for marking cards. Sometimes you can find sleeves with identical backs, but the hologram is on a different side. So you could do 56 cards with right-side hologram, and 4 with left-side. If you're particularly good at it, you could use that to know if the bomb you need is coming in your next draw.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 12:44PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2008
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Sometimes you can find sleeves with identical backs, but the hologram is on a different side. So you could do 56 cards with right-side hologram, and 4 with left-side.
I must be dense, but I still don't understand how anything that is on the front of the sleeve can be used to help you distinguish between cards when you can only see their backs.
Still, though, since a hologram is shiny like a mirror, I suppose it could reflect a light from somewhere else.
My first guess would be that anything which obscures part of the face of their card is somehow a violation of Wizards' trademarks, though, rather than a danger of cheating.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 10, 2012 - 12:47PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2011
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It's not actually about the hologram, but about what it does to the entire sleeve. You can put a stack of sleeves (or individual sleeves) under something heavy (like a book), allowing the sticker to create an impression on the back of the sleeve. If you look at brand new Ultra Pro sleeves, there is always a little circle on the back of every sleeve where the sticker is on the front of that sleeve. Usually, every sleeve in a pack has the sticker in the same location, but you can probably mix packs or move the sticker to change the indention's location on certain sleeves, allowing you to mark your deck.
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