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Switch to Forum Live View Overpowered Cards -the way of the future?
1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 3:30AM #51
thegreatchimpy
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 20

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:15AM, Acritter wrote:

From my end, it isn't so much a problem with whether or not it's "overpowered" as much as that I don't like the feel. I'd prefer to have weaker creatures, because I think it's better if the game lasts longer. A deck that aims to end it in a couple swings should be, in my opinion, a deck that is entirely focused around those few swings. Otherwise, it feels a bit too coin-flippy. Like, what if his Delver flips but yours doesn't? You draw a Sword and he doesn't? I know the game isn't all mirror matches, but I hope those examples convey the general emotion I'm trying to express.

Still a fun game, though. Worst case scenario, I can just play some kind of Block Constructed from an older set.


I know exactly what you mean.

I've taken into account what other posters have said about creatures being underpowered vs spells in the past, and the power leap being more of a balancing issue.

I want to see cards that bring new power to the table mainly through interaction, subtlety and balance, not brutally strong rares /mythic rares that replace your staple commons and uncommons with. Sure, release a decisive card like Sigarda, but if you're going to put it at 5 mana, balance it by giving it a signifigant disadvantage, like say Eldrazi monument.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 3:36AM #52
Kaden_Shadows
Date Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 115

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:23PM, MrIndigo wrote:


JTMS might be overpowered too, but I'd say is riding the line. He certainly wasn't overpowered in the Alara-Zendikar metagame, because aggressive decks like Jund were so viable. 




See, my thoughts on Mind Sculptor are this: He wasn't broken (though he was certainly very powerful!) until WotC came out with the "Proliferate" mechanic. Specifically, things like Inexorable Tide . That just made his ultimate WAY too easy to drop on someone. Without that, he only starts with 3 loyalty, and it takes him, at +2 per turn, 5 more turns to activate that power. Not really that bad, I say.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 3:48AM #53
Acritter
Date Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 161

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:30AM, thegreatchimpy wrote:

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:15AM, Acritter wrote:

From my end, it isn't so much a problem with whether or not it's "overpowered" as much as that I don't like the feel. I'd prefer to have weaker creatures, because I think it's better if the game lasts longer. A deck that aims to end it in a couple swings should be, in my opinion, a deck that is entirely focused around those few swings. Otherwise, it feels a bit too coin-flippy. Like, what if his Delver flips but yours doesn't? You draw a Sword and he doesn't? I know the game isn't all mirror matches, but I hope those examples convey the general emotion I'm trying to express.

Still a fun game, though. Worst case scenario, I can just play some kind of Block Constructed from an older set.


I know exactly what you mean.

I've taken into account what other posters have said about creatures being underpowered vs spells in the past, and the power leap being more of a balancing issue.

I want to see cards that bring new power to the table mainly through interaction, subtlety and balance, not brutally strong rares /mythic rares that replace your staple commons and uncommons with. Sure, release a decisive card like Sigarda, but if you're going to put it at 5 mana, balance it by giving it a signifigant disadvantage, like say Eldrazi monument.



My main issue is that it's possible to decide a game in just a few attacks with a mid-range creature. Some of the equipment out there especially is able to make certain draws just too unforgiving. My only real preference is I'd like the game to be slightly more stable. I don't want it to be over in a few turns if something goes wrong. I want more of a chance for each player to get back in it, and it's tough for that to happen with such powerful board states available thanks to these new creatures.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 9:36AM #54
thegreatchimpy
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 20

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:48AM, Acritter wrote:

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:30AM, thegreatchimpy wrote:

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:15AM, Acritter wrote:

From my end, it isn't so much a problem with whether or not it's "overpowered" as much as that I don't like the feel. I'd prefer to have weaker creatures, because I think it's better if the game lasts longer. A deck that aims to end it in a couple swings should be, in my opinion, a deck that is entirely focused around those few swings. Otherwise, it feels a bit too coin-flippy. Like, what if his Delver flips but yours doesn't? You draw a Sword and he doesn't? I know the game isn't all mirror matches, but I hope those examples convey the general emotion I'm trying to express.

Still a fun game, though. Worst case scenario, I can just play some kind of Block Constructed from an older set.


I know exactly what you mean.

I've taken into account what other posters have said about creatures being underpowered vs spells in the past, and the power leap being more of a balancing issue.

I want to see cards that bring new power to the table mainly through interaction, subtlety and balance, not brutally strong rares /mythic rares that replace your staple commons and uncommons with. Sure, release a decisive card like Sigarda, but if you're going to put it at 5 mana, balance it by giving it a signifigant disadvantage, like say Eldrazi monument.



My main issue is that it's possible to decide a game in just a few attacks with a mid-range creature. Some of the equipment out there especially is able to make certain draws just too unforgiving. My only real preference is I'd like the game to be slightly more stable. I don't want it to be over in a few turns if something goes wrong. I want more of a chance for each player to get back in it, and it's tough for that to happen with such powerful board states available thanks to these new creatures.


I agree completely, thanks for the feedback.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:23AM #55
rulesinquisitor
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2010
Posts: 2,442
I don't think there's necessarily a problem with powercreep, but to be honest, I haven't been around long enough to see it happen or not happen. (I started playing Standard at FNMs shortly after the JTMS/SFM ban, and started to get a more serious grasp on the format after rotation)

I think there is a minor problem with some cards that just make any deck that can cast them better, automatically. Or in the case of Swords (probably my least favorite cards in Standard right now), any deck that wants to start attacking in the first few turns.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:45AM #56
NEStomato
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2010
Posts: 1,125

Apr 11, 2012 -- 3:36AM, Kaden_Shadows wrote:

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:23PM, MrIndigo wrote:


JTMS might be overpowered too, but I'd say is riding the line. He certainly wasn't overpowered in the Alara-Zendikar metagame, because aggressive decks like Jund were so viable. 




See, my thoughts on Mind Sculptor are this: He wasn't broken (though he was certainly very powerful!) until WotC came out with the "Proliferate" mechanic. Specifically, things like Inexorable Tide . That just made his ultimate WAY too easy to drop on someone. Without that, he only starts with 3 loyalty, and it takes him, at +2 per turn, 5 more turns to activate that power. Not really that bad, I say.




Uh, the decks that JtMS was being run in that caused the ban didn't have any Proliferate cards in them whatsoever.  That is not even close tot he reason he became "too powerful".  Free Brainstorms and completely controlling the board and top of the enemy deck is what did that.  Sure, it takes 5 turns to build up to the ultimate from his starting 3 loyalty, but if the opponent can't do anything in those 5 turns what does it really matter?

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:48AM #57
thegreatchimpy
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 20

Apr 11, 2012 -- 10:23AM, rulesinquisitor wrote:

I don't think there's necessarily a problem with powercreep, but to be honest, I haven't been around long enough to see it happen or not happen. (I started playing Standard at FNMs shortly after the JTMS/SFM ban, and started to get a more serious grasp on the format after rotation)

I think there is a minor problem with some cards that just make any deck that can cast them better, automatically. Or in the case of Swords (probably my least favorite cards in Standard right now), any deck that wants to start attacking in the first few turns.


Well if you're relatively new to the game and you want to see how things have progressed take a look at this site, you can look up lists of all cards in specific sets, going right back to Alpha.

www.mtgfanatic.com/store/magic/advanceds...

I'll leave you to form your own opinions on this.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 11:03AM #58
Reylance
Date Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 1,252

Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:47PM, SleetFox wrote:

Because there has never been a half-decent poison creature until Scars of Mirrodin came out.  Every single one of them was terrible.




Well, there was that one card which formed the winning strategy of a 2HG Pro Tour and was an important part of a decent block deck....

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 1:14PM #59
RPJesus
Date Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 15,205

Apr 10, 2012 -- 5:30PM, Darkwolfer2002 wrote:


Yes MTG has had a huge powercreep (creature wise). Not so much spellwise.



Which is pretty much the point. It's less power creep than power shift. I think right now they're basically trying to find a happy medium between Mishra's War Machine and Lightning Bolt and Htarmogoyf and Ember Shot .

Zammm = Batman.
Bronies unite.
"I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room."
It's my sig in a box Show

Jul 29, 2012 -- 9:56PM, ChaosLight wrote:


Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.


Oct 18, 2012 -- 11:06AM, SteelWall wrote:

Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.


Oct 26, 2012 -- 8:17AM, Chaikov wrote:

Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.



Dec 3, 2012 -- 10:18PM, Splattercat wrote:


Funny story:
InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. 
I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:

Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?"
Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." 
Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb."
Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."

I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.

Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.


My DM on Battleminds:

no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.





Jan 15, 2013 -- 5:28PM, Iam_IronMan wrote:


Jan 15, 2013 -- 5:20PM, Jerrymm91 wrote:

Hi guys!  So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic.  I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked.  Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon.  Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in.  Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play.  I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's.  However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks.  I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real.  I want to begin playing it as a regular.  My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck?  Or are there special rules?  Are some cards forbidden or restricted?  Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol. 


I have the same problem with women.




Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry Show


Jan 7, 2012 -- 6:59PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.



Dec 2, 2012 -- 1:39PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.



Dec 17, 2012 -- 4:27PM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.




Feb 8, 2012 -- 4:40AM, ArtVenn wrote:

I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now.

O' Jesus

Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle.

Amen.


Feb 17, 2011 -- 3:08AM, ArtVenn wrote:

Feb 16, 2011 -- 6:43PM, RPJesus wrote:

It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think  about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills


Seriously, that was amazing.  I laughed my *ss off.  Made my day, and I just woke up.


ArtVenn
You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.




Jan 11, 2012 -- 7:19AM, Salla wrote:

Jan 11, 2012 -- 4:37AM, Ogiwan wrote:


.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?



Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again?

Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.


May 16, 2011 -- 12:18PM, Salla wrote:

I don't say this often, but ...

LOL



May 10, 2010 -- 7:37AM, AivaRuin wrote:



You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...

Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.

And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.



Jun 29, 2011 -- 11:05AM, Lineov wrote:

Jun 28, 2011 -- 2:44PM, Litmus wrote:



I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here.  ...



Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic


Jan 16, 2012 -- 11:37PM, febbstalicious42 wrote:

Jan 16, 2012 -- 11:35PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jan 16, 2012 -- 9:58PM, HeartlessNobody wrote:

we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary


So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?


I lol'd.


Oct 26, 2011 -- 11:40PM, zammm wrote:

Oct 26, 2011 -- 7:43PM, TyGuy42 wrote:

Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?

The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."



Feb 9, 2012 -- 8:41AM, Dilleux_Lepaire wrote:

Spoiler: Show

Feb 9, 2012 -- 7:45AM, KeeperofManyNames wrote:

Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:49AM, ORC_Ragnar wrote:

I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.

...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?



I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?

Right.



Mar 9, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Garthanos wrote:

Mar 7, 2012 -- 4:54PM, RPJesus wrote:


Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).



Mar 19, 2012 -- 5:07PM, Kalnaur wrote:

Mar 19, 2012 -- 4:41PM, DoctorBadWolf wrote:


This just won the argument, AFAIC.



That's just awesome.



May 12, 2010 -- 9:36AM, JustTerrorIt wrote:

May 11, 2010 -- 5:46PM, Master_Yumyums wrote:

HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?!  WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!



That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.

And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.

He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).



Dec 16, 2011 -- 10:16AM, HairlessThoctar wrote:


+10



Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:23PM, Eonblueapocalypse1 wrote:

Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:13PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jun 24, 2012 -- 8:02PM, tehbeast wrote:

heaven or hell.


Round 1. Lets rock.



GG quotes!

RPJesus just made this thread win!



Jul 25, 2012 -- 12:06AM, WhiteRaven810 wrote:

Jul 23, 2012 -- 6:26PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jul 23, 2012 -- 5:47PM, felisdomesticus wrote:


Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS.  I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about:  creatures.


Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .



You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.



On what flavor text fits me:

Nov 15, 2012 -- 12:55AM, CadaverousBl00m wrote:

Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius ?



Sep 15, 2012 -- 4:24PM, Dragon_Nut wrote:


First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.



Sep 17, 2012 -- 1:31PM, Banderbear wrote:


I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.



Jan 2, 2013 -- 7:46AM, royk wrote:



I you loads



Jan 20, 2013 -- 10:27PM, TV_Casualty wrote:

Jan 20, 2013 -- 10:17PM, RPJesus wrote:

"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran


10/10. Amazing.



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1 year ago  ::  Apr 12, 2012 - 3:23AM #60
thegreatchimpy
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 20

Apr 10, 2012 -- 9:03PM, Singe wrote:

Here is a sample of Green 5/5 creatures for 4 mana. You can clearly see how different each one is and a few are multicolor.

Emperor Crocodile
Blastoderm
Imperiosaur
Iwamori of the Open Fist
Jade Leech
Rumbling Slum
Spellbreaker Behemoth
Timbermare
Unstoppable Ash
Wren's Run Packmaster


With the exception of Spellbreaker Behemoth and Timbermare, I don't consider any of those cards to be on par with the ones I discussed in my original post.  Packmaster is borderline -excellent, board advantage true, but I don't consider it overpowered because you have to Champion first. The other cards break the curve but are unexceptional in their abilities or have signifigant disadvantages that justify their low mana cost.

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