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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 10:46AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2011
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Also, the rules text clearly states:
"If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack"
That means that if they ever move it to their hand face down, they can't cast it for the miracle cost. They can't play a card that is not currently revealed for it's miracle cost.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 11:16AM
#22
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But once the card goes from top of deck to the players hand... I will be hard pressed to be okay with letting them play the Miracle mechanic after that.
That's perfectly fine. In fact, that'll be the way that Judges will be enforcing it: once the card touches the other cards in your hand (or could otherwise be mixed up with them), it's too late to reveal it for Miracle.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 11:19AM
#23
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I suspect people will play this like they play Delver of Secrets  . They should look at the card on top of their library, then either reveal it or put it in their hand. If they simply put it in their hand, they have missed the trigger.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 11:19AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2007
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Also, the rules text clearly states:
"If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack"
That means that if they ever move it to their hand face down, they can't cast it for the miracle cost. They can't play a card that is not currently revealed for it's miracle cost.
I don't think that is a clear argument against what I said...
Core Rulebook
402. Hand
402.1. The hand is where a player holds cards that have been drawn. Cards can be put into a player’s
hand by other effects as well. At the beginning of the game, each player draws a hand of seven
cards.
No card is drawn "face up" then goes face down once it goes to their hand. They Draw the card, it's in their hand, it's the first card they drew, they reveal the card and declare they are playing the spell using the Miracle mechanic. There is nothing that states once the card is in your hand you can no longer play it. The Rulebook states that the "Hand" is where the player holds the cards they have draw, this is where the Miracle mechanic states you are to reveal the card from. I know you are trying to state how it's supposed to be played. I understand how it's supposed to be played. I'm just saying the wording of the rules doesn't protect against the opponent drawing a card and quickly putting it back out claiming its the one they just drew.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 11:24AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2007
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there is no need to trust your opponent, the rules are quite clear on this.
granted, they could be worded more easier to understand for people not intimately familiar with the rules (it took me a few times rereading it as well  )
^^ TY, this is pretty much what I'm referring to and basically all I'm saying. If there's no "disclaimer", how many times do you think it will happen where the person will draw the card, then declare they are playing the Miracle mechanic?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 1:39PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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Choosing to use the miracle ability begins with moving the top card of the library to their hand revealed. Therefore, moving it to the hand concealed is choosing not to use the miracle ability.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 2:05PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2012
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I agree with Argus_Panoptes it only makes sense, if you put it in your hand then it might be void... so you just use it for it's miracle cost. one way to look at it is when you get it in your opening hand obviously you won't be able to play it... and if you play it from the top of the library it only makes sense that if you don't want to or cannot use it that turn then you don't have to.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 2:05PM
#28
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I know you are trying to state how it's supposed to be played. I understand how it's supposed to be played. I'm just saying the wording of the rules doesn't protect against the opponent drawing a card and quickly putting it back out claiming its the one they just drew.
The "game rules" may not protect against that, but the "floor rules" will. If a player puts the card they're drawing in with the rest of the cards in their hand, no matter how briefly, they're not getting a miracle.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 7:42PM
#29
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So, to clarify.
If I draw a miracle card, I have to reveal it as a draw it. I could not, for example, look at my draw, leave it face down below my hand to show that it is the card I drew this turn and play it during the second main phase?
If you need a full hypothetical: let's say I'm running a delver deck with Temporal Mastery. I have two flipped Delvers facing down a spirit token with sword of war a peace on it. I draw a temporal mastery. I don't want to reveal it as the information could effect my opponents blocks/removal (considering that he may not survive two swings, but could kill me off the next turn without blocks), but I do want to play it during my second main phase.
Is there any way to make it into (and beyond) the first main phase without revealing it? As long as it remains clear that it is the card I drew this turn, of course.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 09, 2012 - 7:48PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2004
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So, to clarify.
If I draw a miracle card, I have to reveal it as a draw it. I could not, for example, look at my draw, leave it face down below my hand to show that it is the card I drew this turn and play it during the second main phase?
If you need a full hypothetical: let's say I'm running a delver deck with Temporal Mastery. I have two flipped Delvers facing down a spirit token with sword of war a peace on it. I draw a temporal mastery. I don't want to reveal it as the information could effect my opponents blocks/removal (considering that he may not survive two swings, but could kill me off the next turn without blocks), but I do want to play it during my second main phase.
Is there any way to make it into (and beyond) the first main phase without revealing it? As long as it remains clear that it is the card I drew this turn, of course.
The key here is right in the reminder text "YOu can cast it WHEN you draw it"
… and then, the squirrels came.
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