Good question. You cast the card with the miracle cost as soon as you draw it, so assuming players hold their cards in one hand and draw with the other (I mean no disrespect to any one handed or armed players), one would draw a miracle card and then just put it down right away announcing the casting of the spell. It would seem extremely fishy to me to have someone draw a card, shuffle their hand a little, then say, "Oh, I want to cast Thunderous Wrath for its miracle cost."
Edit: Alright, what about this: When I play with Grave Titan , I usually represent my Zombie tokens with one token that has a die on it that represents how many of those tokens I have. The group of people I play with use similar methods for tokens, as it tends to keep the board free of clutter. However, it is completely up to my opponents to have me represent my tokens in a different way, because, as players, they have a right to know information about the tokens, most commonly in this example which ones have summoning sickness and which ones do not. Now, as far as miracle--and that other card that was linked up there--is there some sort of rule that states that all players must be able to distinguish between current cards in hand and ones just drawn, like maybe cards freshly drawn have to go to the front or the back of your hand? It looks stupid just typing it out, but now I'm very curious as to how players and judges are going to enforce this. I mean, I myself organize my hand by mana cost, and when a new card goes into my hand I don't always put it in the same spot. But depending on what other miracle cards we will have, I might draw a card and absent-mindedly file it in its "rightful place" in my hand while contemplating whether or not I want to cast it via miracle, and I can see where that would be very confusing, and maybe even rage inducing, depending on who I'm playing with and what the board looks like (oh, Riku of Two Reflections , you are my favorite general right now, but everyone hates you).
Good question. You cast the card with the miracle cost as soon as you draw it, so assuming players hold their cards in one hand and draw with the other (I mean no disrespect to any one handed or armed players), one would draw a miracle card and then
My guess with Miracle is that is will have some sort of replacement effect that has you reveal it, then a triggered ability letting you cast it for its Miracle cost. If you put it into your hand without revealing it, it's too late.
Edit: Alright, what about this: When I play with Grave Titan , I usually represent my Zombie tokens with one token that has a die on it that represents how many of those tokens I have. The group of people I play with use similar methods for tokens, as it tends to keep the board free of clutter. However, it is completely up to my opponents to have me represent my tokens in a different way, because, as players, they have a right to know information about the tokens, most commonly in this example which ones have summoning sickness and which ones do not. Now, as far as miracle--and that other card that was linked up there--is there some sort of rule that states that all players must be able to distinguish between current cards in hand and ones just drawn, like maybe cards freshly drawn have to go to the front or the back of your hand? It looks stupid just typing it out, but now I'm very curious as to how players and judges are going to enforce this. I mean, I myself organize my hand by mana cost, and when a new card goes into my hand I don't always put it in the same spot. But depending on what other miracle cards we will have, I might draw a card and absent-mindedly file it in its "rightful place" in my hand while contemplating whether or not I want to cast it via miracle, and I can see where that would be very confusing, and maybe even rage inducing, depending on who I'm playing with and what the board looks like (oh, Riku of Two Reflections , you are my favorite general right now, but everyone hates you).
Once a card hits the hand, it is indistinguishable from other cards in the hand.
402.3. A player may arrange his or her hand in any convenient fashion and look at it as much as he or she wishes. A player can’t look at the cards in another player’s hand but may count those cards at any time.
My guess with Miracle is that is will have some sort of replacement effect that has you reveal it, then a triggered ability letting you cast it for its Miracle cost. If you put it into your hand without revealing it, it's too late.Once a card hits t
My guess with Miracle is that is will have some sort of replacement effect that has you reveal it, then a triggered ability letting you cast it for its Miracle cost. If you put it into your hand without revealing it, it's too late.
Yeah, I can see it working something like madness does.
Yeah, I can see it working something like madness does.
How about we wait until we know the actual rules for the keyword (and potential other rules to support it) before speculating that it maybe doesn't work?
How about we wait until we know the actual rules for the keyword (and potential other rules to support it) before speculating that it maybe doesn't work?
I was there at PAX. The exact text said, "If this is the first card you have drawn this turn, you may cast this for it's miracle cost." They also have an odd card frame.
This is going to cause conflict EVERYWHERE. Thank Avacyn for the Return to Ravnica announcment, or I'd be super-duper pissed.
I was there at PAX. The exact text said, "If this is the first card you have drawn this turn, you may cast this for it's miracle cost." They also have an odd card frame.This is going to cause conflict EVERYWHERE. Thank Avacyn for the Return to Ravnic
Here's the quote from the article on the WotC site...
As you draw an instant or sorcery with miracle, if it's the first card you've drawn this turn, you can immediately reveal it. When you do so, you may cast it for its miracle cost. It doesn't matter whether it's an instant or sorcery; if you choose to cast it, you do so right away, even if it's at a time (such as your draw step) when you couldn't normally cast it. You're not required to reveal a miracle card, even if you could pay for it. You can always choose to just draw it as normal.
Here's the quote from the article on the WotC site...
A miscommunication prevented the official rules for miracle from going up on the website last night. That issue is being addressed, and more information should become available on DailyMTG.com in the next twenty-four hours.
In the meantime, I'll share the offical rules for miracle so that the conversation in this forum can stay on track.
702.91. Miracle
702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."
702.91b If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack.
Sorry for the confusion.
A miscommunication prevented the official rules for miracle from going up on the website last night. That issue is being addressed, and more information should become available on DailyMTG.com in the next twenty-four hours.In the meantime, I'll share
I've been optimistic about everything, but I don't like the mojo surrounding this mechanic. WotC has always done a good job at trying not to leave anything up to "just trusting" the opponent. Hence when you use a spell or ability to search for something specific, you have to reveal it, etc. How 702.91a is written I don't think it's a good idea. Now EVERY CARD your opponet draws, you have to track where they put it in their hand for when they say "Yeah, I think I will cast it now at it's Miracle cost".
There just is no cussion between drawing this card and the card "being in a players hand" where this mechanic is designed to work. I'm VERY relaxed in my gameplay, even in tourneys. I've won games from "mistakes"people have made and let them take it back if there was an "over sight" or something. But once the card goes from top of deck to the players hand... I will be hard pressed to be okay with letting them play the Miracle mechanic after that.
I LIKE that 702.91a says "as you draw it", but "reveal this card from your hand" will make an easy argument of "I drew the card, seen what it was, and want to use the Miracle mechanic". It's too easy (except in something liek MTGO) for people to use the Miracle mechanic on a card they had in their hand countless turns.
It should read something like "as you draw it, but before you put the card into your hand" that way it falls on the responsibility of the person with the Miracle cards to verify the legitimacy and not fall on the opponent to "trust" the other.
I've been optimistic about everything, but I don't like the mojo surrounding this mechanic. WotC has always done a good job at trying not to leave anything up to "just trusting" the opponent. Hence when you use a spell or ability to search for someth
I've been optimistic about everything, but I don't like the mojo surrounding this mechanic. WotC has always done a good job at trying not to leave anything up to "just trusting" the opponent. Hence when you use a spell or ability to search for something specific, you have to reveal it, etc. How 702.91a is written I don't think it's a good idea. Now EVERY CARD your opponet draws, you have to track where they put it in their hand for when they say "Yeah, I think I will cast it now at it's Miracle cost".
No you don't. If they move it to the other cards in their hand, they're past the "as you draw it" stage, and it's too late to reveal. They need to reveal it before it touches the other cards in their hand.
No you don't. If they move it to the other cards in their hand, they're past the "as you draw it" stage, and it's too late to reveal. They need to reveal it before it touches the other cards in their hand.
I've been optimistic about everything, but I don't like the mojo surrounding this mechanic. WotC has always done a good job at trying not to leave anything up to "just trusting" the opponent. Hence when you use a spell or ability to search for something specific, you have to reveal it, etc. How 702.91a is written I don't think it's a good idea. Now EVERY CARD your opponet draws, you have to track where they put it in their hand for when they say "Yeah, I think I will cast it now at it's Miracle cost".
here is how it works
as the card leaves the library, it is in your hand and you can reveal and cast it for the miracle cost. as soon as it is with the other cards in your hand the draw is over and the miracle has passed.
there is no need to trust your opponent, the rules are quite clear on this. granted, they could be worded more easier to understand for people not intimately familiar with the rules (it took me a few times rereading it as well )
here is how it worksas the card leaves the library, it is in your hand and you can reveal and cast it for the miracle cost.as soon as it is with the other cards in your hand the draw is over and the miracle has passed.there is no need to trust your o
"If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack"
That means that if they ever move it to their hand face down, they can't cast it for the miracle cost. They can't play a card that is not currently revealed for it's miracle cost.
Also, the rules text clearly states:"If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack"Tha
But once the card goes from top of deck to the players hand... I will be hard pressed to be okay with letting them play the Miracle mechanic after that.
That's perfectly fine. In fact, that'll be the way that Judges will be enforcing it: once the card touches the other cards in your hand (or could otherwise be mixed up with them), it's too late to reveal it for Miracle.
That's perfectly fine. In fact, that'll be the way that Judges will be enforcing it: once the card touches the other cards in your hand (or could otherwise be mixed up with them), it's too late to reveal it for Miracle.
I suspect people will play this like they play Delver of Secrets . They should look at the card on top of their library, then either reveal it or put it in their hand. If they simply put it in their hand, they have missed the trigger.
I suspect people will play this like they play Delver of Secrets . They should look at the card on top of their library, then either reveal it or put it in their hand. If they simply put it in their hand, they hav
"If a player chooses to reveal a card using its miracle ability, he or she plays with that card revealed until that card leaves his or her hand, that ability resolves, or that ability otherwise leaves the stack"
That means that if they ever move it to their hand face down, they can't cast it for the miracle cost. They can't play a card that is not currently revealed for it's miracle cost.
I don't think that is a clear argument against what I said...
Core Rulebook
402. Hand 402.1. The hand is where a player holds cards that have been drawn. Cards can be put into a player’s hand by other effects as well. At the beginning of the game, each player draws a hand of seven cards.
No card is drawn "face up" then goes face down once it goes to their hand. They Draw the card, it's in their hand, it's the first card they drew, they reveal the card and declare they are playing the spell using the Miracle mechanic. There is nothing that states once the card is in your hand you can no longer play it. The Rulebook states that the "Hand" is where the player holds the cards they have draw, this is where the Miracle mechanic states you are to reveal the card from.
I know you are trying to state how it's supposed to be played. I understand how it's supposed to be played. I'm just saying the wording of the rules doesn't protect against the opponent drawing a card and quickly putting it back out claiming its the one they just drew.
I don't think that is a clear argument against what I said...No card is drawn "face up" then goes face down once it goes to their hand. They Draw the card, it's in their hand, it's the first card they drew, they reveal the card and declare they are p
there is no need to trust your opponent, the rules are quite clear on this. granted, they could be worded more easier to understand for people not intimately familiar with the rules (it took me a few times rereading it as well )
^^ TY, this is pretty much what I'm referring to and basically all I'm saying. If there's no "disclaimer", how many times do you think it will happen where the person will draw the card, then declare they are playing the Miracle mechanic?
^^ TY, this is pretty much what I'm referring to and basically all I'm saying. If there's no "disclaimer", how many times do you think it will happen where the person will draw the card, then declare they are playing the Miracle mechanic?
Choosing to use the miracle ability begins with moving the top card of the library to their hand revealed. Therefore, moving it to the hand concealed is choosing not to use the miracle ability.
Choosing to use the miracle ability begins with moving the top card of the library to their hand revealed. Therefore, moving it to the hand concealed is choosing not to use the miracle ability.
I agree with Argus_Panoptes it only makes sense, if you put it in your hand then it might be void... so you just use it for it's miracle cost. one way to look at it is when you get it in your opening hand obviously you won't be able to play it... and if you play it from the top of the library it only makes sense that if you don't want to or cannot use it that turn then you don't have to.
I agree with Argus_Panoptes it only makes sense, if you put it in your hand then it might be void... so you just use it for it's miracle cost. one way to look at it is when you get it in your opening hand obviously you won't be able to play it... a
I know you are trying to state how it's supposed to be played. I understand how it's supposed to be played. I'm just saying the wording of the rules doesn't protect against the opponent drawing a card and quickly putting it back out claiming its the one they just drew.
The "game rules" may not protect against that, but the "floor rules" will. If a player puts the card they're drawing in with the rest of the cards in their hand, no matter how briefly, they're not getting a miracle.
The "game rules" may not protect against that, but the "floor rules" will. If a player puts the card they're drawing in with the rest of the cards in their hand, no matter how briefly, they're not getting a miracle.
If I draw a miracle card, I have to reveal it as a draw it. I could not, for example, look at my draw, leave it face down below my hand to show that it is the card I drew this turn and play it during the second main phase?
If you need a full hypothetical: let's say I'm running a delver deck with Temporal Mastery. I have two flipped Delvers facing down a spirit token with sword of war a peace on it. I draw a temporal mastery. I don't want to reveal it as the information could effect my opponents blocks/removal (considering that he may not survive two swings, but could kill me off the next turn without blocks), but I do want to play it during my second main phase.
Is there any way to make it into (and beyond) the first main phase without revealing it? As long as it remains clear that it is the card I drew this turn, of course.
So, to clarify.If I draw a miracle card, I have to reveal it as a draw it. I could not, for example, look at my draw, leave it face down below my hand to show that it is the card I drew this turn and play it during the second main phase? If you need
If I draw a miracle card, I have to reveal it as a draw it. I could not, for example, look at my draw, leave it face down below my hand to show that it is the card I drew this turn and play it during the second main phase?
If you need a full hypothetical: let's say I'm running a delver deck with Temporal Mastery. I have two flipped Delvers facing down a spirit token with sword of war a peace on it. I draw a temporal mastery. I don't want to reveal it as the information could effect my opponents blocks/removal (considering that he may not survive two swings, but could kill me off the next turn without blocks), but I do want to play it during my second main phase.
Is there any way to make it into (and beyond) the first main phase without revealing it? As long as it remains clear that it is the card I drew this turn, of course.
The key here is right in the reminder text "YOu can cast it WHEN you draw it"
The key here is right in the reminder text "YOu can cast it WHEN you draw it"
This is the relevant rule from earlier in the thread:
702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."
This is not the relevant rule:
Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand sometime after you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."
This is the relevant rule from earlier in the thread:702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've dra
Okay, I have a question. So the Miracle ability is obviously a replacement effect that modifies the way a card is drawn and gives you a choice. The second sentence, though, reads like a triggered ability. But there's not a triggered ability baked in there, is there?
It's like they took the implementation of madness and crammed it into one ability. Can it work as just one ability?
Okay, I have a question. So the Miracle ability is obviously a replacement effect that modifies the way a card is drawn and gives you a choice. The second sentence, though, reads like a triggered ability. But there's not a triggered ability baked in
Okay, I have a question. So the Miracle ability is obviously a replacement effect that modifies the way a card is drawn and gives you a choice. The second sentence, though, reads like a triggered ability. But there's not a triggered ability baked in there, is there?
It's like they took the implementation of madness and crammed it into one ability. Can it work as just one ability?
From the earlier post by WotC_dlaugel:
702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability
So, yes, there is a triggered ability baked in there.
From the earlier post by WotC_dlaugel: 702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability So, yes, there is a triggered ability baked in there.
So does that mean you can wait for your opponent to reveal their Miracle, put it's trigger on the stack, and then you can mill them for 1 (e.g. Goulcaller's Bell ), and they wont get to cast it since the trigger that allows them to cast it hasnt resolved yet?
~ Tim
So does that mean you can wait for your opponent to reveal their Miracle, put it's trigger on the stack, and then you can mill them for 1 (e.g. Goulcaller's Bell ), and they wont get to cast it since the trigger tha
So does that mean you can wait for your opponent to reveal their Miracle, put it's trigger on the stack, and then you can mill them for 1 (e.g. Goulcaller's Bell ), and they wont get to cast it since the trigger that allows them to cast it hasnt resolved yet?
~ Tim
No. They will reveal it at the same time they draw it so you would have to discard it from their hand.
No. They will reveal it at the same time they draw it so you would have to discard it from their hand.
by the time you get priority they either have already cast it as a miracle or put it in their hand
There is a trigger, at which point you can respond before they cast the spell. But the trigger is dependant on them revealing the card. If they don't reveal it, there's no trigger and it just goes in their hand.
There is a trigger, at which point you can respond before they cast the spell. But the trigger is dependant on them revealing the card. If they don't reveal it, there's no trigger and it just goes in their hand.
by the time you get priority they either have already cast it as a miracle or put it in their hand
Not quite accurate.
By the time you get priority the card is in their hand. If they revealed it, the cast-it trigger will be on the stack--the card itself is still in their hand and revealed at that point. You can respond before they cast it (by responding to the cast-it trigger)--you just can't respond in between learning what the card is and it being in their hand, since the two happen simultaneously.
Not quite accurate.By the time you get priority the card is in their hand. If they revealed it, the cast-it trigger will be on the stack--the card itself is still in their hand and revealed at that point. You can respond before they cast it (by respo
So does this mean you can respond to the trigger by making them discard the card, before the trigger that allows them to cast it resolves? (of course, if it is an Instant, they could respond to the discard spell/ability by casting it for it's normal cost)
~ Tim
So does this mean you can respond to the trigger by making them discard the card, before the trigger that allows them to cast it resolves? (of course, if it is an Instant, they could respond to the discard spell/ability by casting it for it's normal
So if I am about to draw more than one card I don't get to know what draws 2+ will be before I must chose to reveal or not?
If this is the first card I darw in a turn off of Desperate Ravings can I cast it before facing the chance to discard it?
So if I am about to draw more than one card I don't get to know what draws 2+ will be before I must chose to reveal or not?If this is the first card I darw in a turn off of Desperate Ravings can I cast it before fa
So if I am about to draw more than one card I don't get to know what draws 2+ will be before I must chose to reveal or not?
Correct. Cards are drawn one at a time, and you need to reveal the card as you draw it if you want Miracle to trigger.
If this is the first card I darw in a turn off of Desperate Ravings can I cast it before facing the chance to discard it?
No. You can only cast it when the triggered ability resolves. In other words, desperate ravings has to finish resolving, then the trigger gets put on the stack, then each player gets a chance to respond, and only if there are no responses does the ability then resolve.
Correct. Cards are drawn one at a time, and you need to reveal the card as you draw it if you want Miracle to trigger.No. You can only cast it when the triggered ability resolves. In other words, desperate ravings has to finish resolving, then the tr
I instinctively feel there is some problem with this mechanic, but I'm not totally sure and can't pin down rulings exactly.
It seems to me that the replacement effect has to apply to the card while it is the top card of your library, this doesn't seem to be stated. If it just applied in your hand, it would be too late to do anything.
I'm also worried because drawing a card is a card moving from one hidden zone to another, so this replacement effect is not publicly visible and isn't apparent until the card is actually revealed... which involves having already invoked the replacement effect...
Maybe this all works out, but it just seems a bit fishy to me.
I instinctively feel there is some problem with this mechanic, but I'm not totally sure and can't pin down rulings exactly.It seems to me that the replacement effect has to apply to the card while it is the top card of your library, this doesn't seem
Just like Sylvan Library , although there is only 1 Hand Zone (per player), you are required to keep some cards separate from others. If you put the card with the rest of them in the Hand Zone before you reveal it, you won't be casting it for its Miracle cost.
Just like Sylvan Library , although there is only 1 Hand Zone (per player), you are required to keep some cards separate from others. If you put the card with the rest of them in the Hand Zone before you reveal it,
keep your hand in one hand, draw with your other hand, look at it, then choose to reveal and cast it or put it with your other cards
this is probably how it will be played at professional level, as soon as the card touches the other cards in your hand and therefor could potentially be confused the miracle is over.
it is your responsibility to keep them separeted during the draw.
keep your hand in one hand, draw with your other hand, look at it, then choose to reveal and cast it or put it with your other cardsthis is probably how it will be played at professional level, as soon as the card touches the other cards in your hand
keep your hand in one hand, draw with your other hand, look at it, then choose to reveal and cast it or put it with your other cards
this is probably how it will be played at professional level, as soon as the card touches the other cards in your hand and therefor could potentially be confused the miracle is over.
it is your responsibility to keep them separeted during the draw.
^^ which is how this SHOULD be done, it's just not stated anywhere. It's a mechanic that only applies to the "1st card drawn this turn", there's just no tellin gif that card has the mechanic until you actually draw it. So it's almost as if the the Rulebook would need to be adjusted for something as simple as drawing cards to (for example)
Drawing a card: Look at the top card of your library, unless you play that card by another means such as Miracle, put that card into your hand.
^^ which is how this SHOULD be done, it's just not stated anywhere. It's a mechanic that only applies to the "1st card drawn this turn", there's just no tellin gif that card has the mechanic until you actually draw it. So it's almost as if the the Ru
Just look at the cards you're drawing: 1 - For the first draw each turn, take the card from the top of your library 2 - Clearly keep it away from your hand of card and look at it. 3a - Regular card? Put it in your hand. 3b - Miracle card (it should flash in your face thanks to the specific card background)? Decide if you cast it. 4 - If you want to cast it, reveal it. 5 - ... 6 - Profit!
If your opponnent does not do step 2 correctly and still want to cast a miracle card, call a judge.
If you play with those cards... PLAY with those cards, but correctly.
Just look at the cards you're drawing:1 - For the first draw each turn, take the card from the top of your library2 - Clearly keep it away from your hand of card and look at it.3a - Regular card? Put it in your hand.3b - Miracle card (it should flash
Actually the biggest issue I see is, that if you're keeping the drawn card seperate to contemplate, that's already telling your opponent a lot. Even if you don't reveal it, they pretty much know, that you've drawn a miracle card. Unless you want to change your playing habits rather drastically by always keeping the drawn card away from the others for a moment, miracle or not, first drawn card or not. That won't be easy to do.
Actually the biggest issue I see is, that if you're keeping the drawn card seperate to contemplate, that's already telling your opponent a lot. Even if you don't reveal it, they pretty much know, that you've drawn a miracle card. Unless you want to c
I'm not worried about the practicalities of playing with the cards, although indeed you'd need to change your play style to not give away information. What I'm worried about is whether this mechanic actually technically works within the rules. Can a replacement effect that is not visible apply to an event? It must "exist" before the event of drawing the card happens, which means it exists on a hidden card in your library while moving to your hand, also hidden. No players but you know the replacement effect is there. So can it apply? Applying it "retrospectively" after revealing the card seems very dodgy to me. What rule allows you to reveal it besides the Miracle keyword ability? Keywords only work if they... work.
My instinct is that the rules for actually drawing cards should incorporate the Miracle mechanic, that being a specific rule that allows you to reveal the card you draw if it's a Miracle card. Then it is a seperate rule, not a replacement effect which may not technically work. The rule could then just trigger the ability in the same way.
I'm not 100% sure it doesn't work, but I have my doubts. Usually if a card is hidden, it's continuous abilities don't apply in my understanding.
400.6. If an object would move from one zone to another, determine what event is moving the object. If the object is moving to a public zone, all players look at it to see if it has any abilities that would affect the move. Then any appropriate replacement effects, whether they come from that object or from elsewhere, are applied to that event. If any effects or rules try to do two or more contradictory or mutually exclusive things to a particular object, that object’s controller—or its owner if it has no controller—chooses which effect to apply, and what that effect does. (Note that multiple instances of the same thing may be mutually exclusive; for example, two simultaneous “destroy” effects.) Then the event moves the object.
I don't see any parallel rule anywhere for objects moving to a hidden zone, nor anything that allows you to reveal cards just in case they have replacement effects that apply.
Consider for example this hypothetical new creature ability:
Card double (while this card is in your hand, if you would draw a card, you may instead reveal this card, discard it and draw 2 cards).
It's clear what the ability is meant to do, but I don't believe it would work. In reality, it wouldn't do anything because the replacement effect is not visible so doesn't apply. It seems to me the same is true of Miracle cards.
I'm quite happy to stand corrected of course
I'm not worried about the practicalities of playing with the cards, although indeed you'd need to change your play style to not give away information. What I'm worried about is whether this mechanic actually technically works within the rules. Can a
Actually the biggest issue I see is, that if you're keeping the drawn card seperate to contemplate, that's already telling your opponent a lot. Even if you don't reveal it, they pretty much know, that you've drawn a miracle card. Unless you want to change your playing habits rather drastically by always keeping the drawn card away from the others for a moment, miracle or not, first drawn card or not. That won't be easy to do.
or you can keep a card without miracle seperated to bluff
or you can keep a card without miracle seperated to bluff
I'm not worried about the practicalities of playing with the cards, although indeed you'd need to change your play style to not give away information. What I'm worried about is whether this mechanic actually technically works within the rules. Can a replacement effect that is not visible apply to an event? It must "exist" before the event of drawing the card happens, which means it exists on a hidden card in your library while moving to your hand, also hidden. No players but you know the replacement effect is there. So can it apply? Applying it "retrospectively" after revealing the card seems very dodgy to me.
I don't see that as any more "dodgy" than revealing the morph cost of a card while turning it face up.
I don't see that as any more "dodgy" than revealing the morph cost of a card while turning it face up.
Actually the biggest issue I see is, that if you're keeping the drawn card seperate to contemplate, that's already telling your opponent a lot. Even if you don't reveal it, they pretty much know, that you've drawn a miracle card. Unless you want to change your playing habits rather drastically by always keeping the drawn card away from the others for a moment, miracle or not, first drawn card or not. That won't be easy to do.
The whole point of my post was that, thanks to the particular card face, you'd need like a split second to detect it.
What you should keep in your head is that you have to know your deck and know where a specific miracle would work nicely and if you get it, cast it.
It's called playing well... :P
The whole point of my post was that, thanks to the particular card face, you'd need like a split second to detect it.What you should keep in your head is that you have to know your deck and know where a specific miracle would work nicely and if you g
I'm not worried about the practicalities of playing with the cards, although indeed you'd need to change your play style to not give away information. What I'm worried about is whether this mechanic actually technically works within the rules. Can a replacement effect that is not visible apply to an event? It must "exist" before the event of drawing the card happens, which means it exists on a hidden card in your library while moving to your hand, also hidden. No players but you know the replacement effect is there. So can it apply? Applying it "retrospectively" after revealing the card seems very dodgy to me.
I don't see that as any more "dodgy" than revealing the morph cost of a card while turning it face up.
But there is a whole section in the rules about face down cards, and a rule specifically about turning them face up:
707.7. The ability or rules that allow a permanent to be face down may also allow the permanent’s controller to turn it face up. Spells normally can’t be turned face up.
Also this is done as an action when you have priority. There is no problem revealing things as part of doing that.
Miracle just comes under the category of a replacement abillity, and it seems to me the rules do not support it as such since it is not "active" when it is supposed to apply as far as I can see.
I believe the rules have to support new mechanics; they cannot just be a law unto themselves.
I don't see that as any more "dodgy" than revealing the morph cost of a card while turning it face up.[/quote]But there is a whole section in the rules about face down cards, and a rule specifically about turning them face up:707.7. The ability or ru
There has to be something in the rules already, though, or Panglacial Wurm wouldn't work either.
In the process of casting it, at Step 1 the card gets moved to the stack (601.2a) and is therefore revealed - it's not face down, and the stack is a public zone (400.2). If you attempted to cast something from the library that wasn't Panglacial Wurm, 601.5 would prevent that to begin with, and 717.1 would rewind you back if you had started the process anyway.
I see no reason why the same can't be true for Miracle.
In the process of casting it, at Step 1 the card gets moved to the stack (601.2a) and is therefore revealed - it's not face down, and the stack is a public zone (400.2). If you attempted to cast something from the library that wasn't Panglacial Wurm,
There's a big difference between this and those cards. It's pretty simple it seems to me, herein lies the problem:
The replacement effect can't apply unless the card is revealed.
The card can only be revealed while the replacement effect is being applied. It's explicitly part of the process.
No other rule lets you reveal it; indeed you can't reveal it beforehand to make the ability apply because revealing it is part of the process.
It's a key locked in the safe situation. The effect doesn't exist prior to the event, so it doesn't apply.
I'm convinced it doesn't work.
There's a big difference between this and those cards. It's pretty simple it seems to me, herein lies the problem:The replacement effect can't apply unless the card is revealed.The card can only be revealed while the replacement effect is being appli
It willw ork pretty similar to how morph works. If you do not know what the morph cost of a creature is before you reveal it, how can you reveal it in the first place?
It willw ork pretty similar to how morph works. If you do not know what the morph cost of a creature is before you reveal it, how can you reveal it in the first place?
702.35d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morph cost would be if it were face up, pay that cost, then turn the permanent face up. (If the permanent wouldn’t have a morph cost if it were face up, it can’t be turned face up this way.) The morph effect on it ends, and it regains its normal characteristics. Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger when it’s turned face up and don’t have any effect, because the permanent has already entered the battlefield.
Morph has lots of rules that make sure it works and its ability actually applies while it is face down. As it stands, Miracle doesn't even get off the ground. There are no current rules that will make it work (of course I welcome being shown otherwise!), it's a replacement ability that just has a faulty template. It confuses executing the replacement ability with creating the replacement ability, and if you follow the rules it just does nothing. It does need other supporting main rules outside its own keyword.
2goth: You're right, I may be jumping the gun. I would hope there are more supporting rules. To be honest I'm losing faith in the design of cards. I have counted at least 8 cards in the last two sets that don't work, as well as older cards. It seems to be the attitude that "the cards just do what they are obviously intended to do regardless of whether they actually work".
As soon as I saw the ability, I instantly thought it would work like this:
Alter the draw rule
120.1. A player draws a card by putting the top card of his or her library into his or her hand. This is done as a turn-based action during each player’s draw step. It may also be done as part of a cost or effect of a spell or ability. If it is the first card drawn that turn, the player may reveal the card if it has the ability "Miracle". It stays revealed until the end of the draw step.
Miracle updated
702.91a Miracle affects the way the card is drawn (see rule 120.1) allowing you to reveal it if it is the first card drawn that turn, and is a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "When you reveal this card while drawing it, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."
I added the part about revealing it until the end of the draw step because I realized the card would currently be un-revealed between revealing it and casting it, so there would be no way to ensure it was the same object. This may be of no real significance, but it would still be an internal error if another card of the same name were to be cast instead.
It seems like Miracle is a demented variation on Madness. But Madness works properly because (a) rule 400.6 allows its replacement effect to apply by revealing the card before it changes zones, since it will be discarded to a public zone and (b) it gets exiled rather than this dodgy revealing business which causes rules and practicality issues.
DocDoom: This rule covers that-702.35d If you have priority, you may turn a face-down permanent you control face up. This is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see rule 115). To do this, show all players what the permanent’s morp
revealing a card before/as it goes to a hidden zone does work by ruling (but your right the rules should be updated as well)eg. Heretic's Punishment would see the CMC of a Progenitus
We already have rules about being able to use activated abilities from hidden zones; otherwise, Cycling wouldn't work. I have to imagine there's more support in the Comp Rules than just the definition of Miracle.
We already have rules about being able to use activated abilities from hidden zones; otherwise, Cycling wouldn't work. I have to imagine there's more support in the Comp Rules than just the definition of Miracle.
After the mention of Panglacial Wurm , I wondered if there's a much simpler way to do this, and with just one ability and no need to update the rules about drawing cards:
Miracle X means "While you are drawing this card, you can cast it by paying [X] rather than paying it's mana cost if you've drawn no other cards this turn."
Maybe it's too much of a long sentence... but I think it would work?
EDIT: Of course it's slightly different functionality, but I don't see why having a trigger is essential to the mechanic.
I hope so :) After the mention of Panglacial Wurm , I wondered if there's a much simpler way to do this, and with just one ability and no need to update the rules about drawing cards:Miracle X means "While you are d
Miracle can work just fine as a replacement effect. (It might need an addition to 112.6, but nothing more.) Functioning in a hidden zone is not a problem from a rules perspective. It's only a potential problem from an enforcement perspective, and Miracle doesn't have an enforcement problem.
The inherent problem with abilities that function while a card is in a hidden zone isn't that such abilities can't possibly work there--as far as the rules are concerned there's no reason why they can't. The problem is that when the cards are hidden it's impossible for players to enforce the game state properly--they might not even know that something needs to happen without seeing the card, or they might get the wording wrong, or a player might try to cheat because their opponent can't confirm what the game needs to happen. That's why 603.2e (non-visible triggers don't trigger) exists--not because the game can't handle them, but because players can't enforce them.
400.6 exists because there might be multiple contradictory replacement effects trying to replace an object's movement--but that's again intending to solve an enforcement problem, not a rules one. Without it, then the players might get midway through performing the action called for by one replacement effect before realizing that there's another replacement effect that could have or should have been applied.
But Miracle works well enough from an enforcement perspective already. The exact sequence of actions players perform may not quite line up with game-rules reality (they'll look then reveal rather than reveal right away), but it amounts to the same thing in the end.
Miracle can work just fine as a replacement effect. (It might need an addition to 112.6, but nothing more.) Functioning in a hidden zone is not a problem from a rules perspective. It's only a potential problem from an enforcement perspective, and Mir
120.1. A player draws a card by putting the top card of his or her library into his or her hand. This is done as a turn-based action during each player’s draw step. It may also be done as part of a cost or effect of a spell or ability. If it is the first card drawn that turn, the player may reveal the card if it has the ability "Miracle". It stays revealed until the end of the draw step.
Miracle updated
702.91a Miracle affects the way the card is drawn (see rule 120.1) allowing you to reveal it if it is the first card drawn that turn, and is a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "When you reveal this card while drawing it, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."
I added the part about revealing it until the end of the draw step because I realized the card would currently be un-revealed between revealing it and casting it, so there would be no way to ensure it was the same object. This may be of no real significance, but it would still be an internal error if another card of the same name were to be cast instead.
The remain revealed part isn't needed as the rules for revealing a card already cover situations like this. Whilst this rules doesn't specifically mention triggered abilities as an example, I expect that they will add that in the next rules update.
701.13a To reveal a card, show that card to all players for a brief time. If an effect causes a card to be revealed, it remains revealed for as long as necessary to complete the parts of the effect that card is relevant to. If the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability includes revealing a card, the card remains revealed from the time the spell or ability is announced until it the time it leaves the stack.
The remain revealed part isn't needed as the rules for revealing a card already cover situations like this. Whilst this rules doesn't specifically mention triggered abilities as an example, I expect that they will add that in the next rules update.
I know that is not the same, but probably the players will use "miracle" similary to "kinship"
I mean with kinship you look the card during your upkeep, if it doesn't share type then it is the card that they regular will draw and so they draw (if they weren't planning to play anything else during the upkeep).
I know that is not the same, but probably the players will use "miracle" similary to "kinship" I mean with kinship you look the card during your upkeep, if it doesn't share type then it is the card that they regular will draw and so they draw (if the
MJWhitefield1: Ah yes good point thank you, I wasn't aware of that rule. So the card automatically stays revealed.
zammm: Thanks for clearing it up for me. I couldn't specifically find a rule that says it wouldn't work, but I certainly couldn't find a rule which would make it work either. I still think it's a bit fuzzy about when exactly you're given the "chance" to reveal cards to display replacement effects that can suddenly impact an event that is about to happen, I don't think that's specifically covered. Maybe just a clarification on this point is needed since this mechanic seems to create a new and unique situation. As things stand I don't think I could discern from the rules the exact sequence that would be followed- it's like players are given a psuedo-priority in which to reveal cards with replacement effects from hidden zones.
MJWhitefield1: Ah yes good point thank you, I wasn't aware of that rule. So the card automatically stays revealed.zammm: Thanks for clearing it up for me. I couldn't specifically find a rule that says it wouldn't work, but I certainly couldn't find a
So... going back to what Zammm said about continuous abilities working in hidden zones:
Does this mean if you had a card that said, "While this card is in your hand, creatures you control get +1/+1", that would technically work within the rules? Yet it would be absolutely impossible to enforce in any way without somehow "announcing" the ability and having a third party to confirm it?
I really hope there are some extra supporting rules to explain exactly how and when you reveal Miracle cards. Say there are extra replacement effects to apply to your card draw... do you reveal this card first and then start applying them? Can you apply some and then reveal it? The rules don't say. I don't think it's in any way clear as this has never happened before.
So... going back to what Zammm said about continuous abilities working in hidden zones:Does this mean if you had a card that said, "While this card is in your hand, creatures you control get +1/+1", that would technically work within the rules? Yet i
Does this mean if you had a card that said, "While this card is in your hand, creatures you control get +1/+1", that would technically work within the rules? Yet it would be absolutely impossible to enforce in any way without somehow "announcing" the ability and having a third party to confirm it?
Yes. R&D will never print a card that says that because it's unenforceable, but as far as the rules are concerned it functions perfectly well.
Say there are extra replacement effects to apply to your card draw... do you reveal this card first and then start applying them? Can you apply some and then reveal it? The rules don't say. I don't think it's in any way clear as this has never happened before.
I actually think there's a fairly direct precedent: Leyline of the Void -type effects + Regeneration-type effects. (To clarify: Miracle modifies what it means to draw the card; draw-replacement effects modify whether or not you're drawing in the first place. Similarly, Leyline of the Void (and similar cards) modify what it means to destroy a permanent, while regeneration modifies whether or not the permanent is destroyed at all.)
The difference here is that you won't know about the meaning-modification until the action-modification is performed, but that doesn't change the basic interaction, because the action-modification will make the meaning-modification irrelevant. While I do think there might be some concerns, they're not specific to Miracles, but the interaction between action-modifications and meaning-modifications in general, and those issues exist already even without Miracles. And in any event, it's possible that the rules will be modified in the Avacyn Restored update in a way that addresses these concerns.
Yes. R&D will never print a card that says that because it's unenforceable, but as far as the rules are concerned it functions perfectly well.I actually think there's a fairly direct precedent: Leyline of the Void -
Yes, indeed. I know I sound like a broken record, but there really must be some new rules or expanded rules. Because right now it is not possible to use this mechanic enforcably.
You have the event: Draw a card.
Then you have to see what replacement effects there are that apply to it.
Then you choose one of those, apply it, and repeat.
But to "see" that the Miracle effect applies, before you apply it, you will have to somehow announce it, and without revealing the card. This means you are just saying there is a replacement effect without being able to prove it. It's not until you actually apply its replacement effect that you reveal it, as revealing it is part of the replacement effect itself. You're not required to reveal it to announce it, and to confirm that the effect exists requires a third party. I guess you are only hurting yourself if you lie about it as you will be required to back up and do the replacment effects over again; it will be you choosing the order they apply anyway.
The thing is that since this is all technical mumbo jumbo and everyone pretty much knows how it's supposed to work anyway, I worry there will be no rules backup. I worry also that the FAQ entry they gave for Miracle makes it sound like you cast the card as you reveal it, not to have to wait until a triggered ability resolves. This has blatantly already confused lots of people.
I'll shut up about this nonsense now. My wife says I'm "too analytical" Thanks for your patience everyone!
Cool, thanks.Yes, indeed. I know I sound like a broken record, but there really must be some new rules or expanded rules. Because right now it is not possible to use this mechanic enforcably.You have the event: Draw a card. Then you have to see what
Yes, indeed. I know I sound like a broken record, but there really must be some new rules or expanded rules. Because right now it is not possible to use this mechanic enforcably.
You have yet to explain why you consider this any worse than morph in this regard. And before you repeat your earlier "Morph has lots of rules that make sure it works and its ability actually applies while it is face down." comment, I have two questions for you: How many of those "lots of rules" were already in the rulebook before morph was added? Do you have any particular reason to expect miracle to be different, some information the rest of use are not privy to?
You're not required to reveal it to announce it, and to confirm that the effect exists requires a third party.
Again: How is "LOOK at the miracle ability on this card I am revealing" any worse than "LOOK at the morph cost on this permanent I am turning face up"?
You have yet to explain why you consider this any worse than morph in this regard. And before you repeat your earlier "Morph has lots of rules that make sure it works and its ability actually applies while it is face down." comment, I have two quest
But to "see" that the Miracle effect applies, before you apply it, you will have to somehow announce it, and without revealing the card.
Your argument seems to be that every step of every action needs to be verifiable before it's taken. This is not true; it simply must be possible to verify the legality of the action at some point. This is why there's a rule that says any face-down permanents are revealed at the end of the game - to verify that they actually had a Morph ability. Otherwise I could be casting my spare Island s face-down as bears all day long, and just not bothering to un-morph them ever (because I actually can't, but you don't need to know that in the absence of the end of game rule).
Your argument seems to be that every step of every action needs to be verifiable before it's taken. This is not true; it simply must be possible to verify the legality of the action at some point. This is why there's a rule that says any face-down pe
Suppose you have an empty hand, and haven't drawn a card yet this turn. You use Merfolk Looter 's ability, and draw a Miracle card. Can you play the card for its Miracle cost even though you're half-way through the process of carrying out the looter's ability?
Suppose you have an empty hand, and haven't drawn a card yet this turn. You use Merfolk Looter 's ability, and draw a Miracle card. Can you play the card for its Miracle cost even though you're half-way through the
Suppose you have an empty hand, and haven't drawn a card yet this turn. You use Merfolk Looter 's ability, and draw a Miracle card. Can you play the card for its Miracle cost even though you're half-way through the process of carrying out the looter's ability?
No.
608.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a - h, except no player receives priority after it's cast. The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be activated during resolution.
Here's what the sequence would look like:
You get priority and activate the ": Draw a card, then discard a card." ability of Merfolk Looter. You pay the cost by tapping Merfolk Looter.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 1) resolves. You draw a card draw a revealed Banishing Stroke, triggering its linked ability. You discard that card.
You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "When you reveal Banishing Stroke this way, you may cast it by paying rather than its mana cost." on the stack.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 5) resolves. You would be able to cast Banishing Stroke, but it left your hand back in step 4.
You get priority and ....
No.Here's what the sequence would look like: You get priority and activate the ": Draw a card, then discard a card." ability of Merfolk Looter. You pay the cost by tapping Merfolk Looter. You get priority and pass. Opponent gets priority and passes.
Suppose you have an empty hand, and haven't drawn a card yet this turn. You use Merfolk Looter 's ability, and draw a Miracle card. Can you play the card for its Miracle cost even though you're half-way through the process of carrying out the looter's ability?
No.
608.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a - h, except no player receives priority after it's cast. The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be activated during resolution.
Here's what the sequence would look like:
You get priority and activate the ": Draw a card, then discard a card." ability of Merfolk Looter. You pay the cost by tapping Merfolk Looter.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 1) resolves. You draw a card draw a revealed Banishing Stroke, triggering its linked ability. You discard that card.
You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "When you reveal Banishing Stroke this way, you may cast it by paying rather than its mana cost." on the stack.
You get priority and pass.
Opponent gets priority and passes.
The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 5) resolves. You would be able to cast Banishing Stroke, but it left your hand back in step 4.
You get priority and ....
But what if I also control a Yawgmoth's Agenda or another similar card that lets me play spells from my graveyard?
No.Here's what the sequence would look like: You get priority and activate the ": Draw a card, then discard a card." ability of Merfolk Looter. You pay the cost by tapping Merfolk Looter. You get priority and pass. Opponent gets priority and passes.
But what if I also control a Yawgmoth's Agenda or another similar card that lets me play spells from my graveyard?
So what if you do? If you can play a card from your graveyard, then you can play a card from your graveyard. That card's history in other zones is entirely irrelevant. I don't see the point of your question; in the above sequence adding a Yawgmoth's Agenda would enable playing a Banishing Stroke from your graveyard at step 6 or 9 (but not step 4 or 8) regardless of whether that card had been in your graveyard for a few turns or was a recent arrival.
So what if you do? If you can play a card from your graveyard, then you can play a card from your graveyard. That card's history in other zones is entirely irrelevant. I don't see the point of your question; in the above sequence adding a Yawgmoth
But why would it not enable playing the Stroke from your graveyard in step 8? In your post, you said that you would not be able to play it since it left your hand [and went to the graveyard] in step 4. But now I have a card that lets me play spells from my graveyard, and it seems like you were trying to agrue based on the fact that you can normally only cast spells from your hand. Or perhaps I am not understanding what you are implying when you said that the Stroke left your hand earlier in the turn? Does the Stroke in the graveyard become a new object, so the Miracle ability now cannot find it when it resolves?
But why would it not enable playing the Stroke from your graveyard in step 8? In your post, you said that you would not be able to play it since it left your hand [and went to the graveyard] in step 4. But now I have a card that lets me play spells f
But why would it not enable playing the Stroke from your graveyard in step 8?
Because you don't have priority in step 8. There is only one object that you can play during that step, but it ceased to exist in step 4.
608.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a - h, except no player receives priority after it's cast. The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be activated during resolution.
Does the Stroke in the graveyard become a new object, so the Miracle ability now cannot find it when it resolves?
400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are seven exceptions to this rule:
400.7a Effects from spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities that change the characteristics of a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to the permanent that spell becomes.
400.7b Prevention effects that apply to damage from a permanent spell on the stack continue to apply to damage from the permanent that spell becomes.
400.7c If an ability of a permanent requires information about choices made as that permanent was cast as a spell, including what mana was spent to cast that spell, it uses information about the spell that became that permanent as it resolved.
400.7d Abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, "When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield") can find the new object that it became in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered, if that zone is a public zone.
400.7e Abilities of Auras that trigger when the enchanted permanent leaves the battlefield can find the new object that Aura became in its owner's graveyard if it was put into that graveyard at the same time the enchanted permanent left the battlefield. It can also find the new object that Aura became in its owner's graveyard as a result of being put there as a state-based action for not being attached to a permanent. (See rule 704.5n.)
400.7f If an effect grants a nonland card an ability that allows it to be cast, that ability will continue to apply to the new object that card became after it moved to the stack as a result of being cast this way.
400.7g A resolving spell or activated ability can perform actions on an object that moved from one zone to another while that spell was being cast or that ability was being activated, if that object moved to a public zone.
Because you don't have priority in step 8. There is only one object that you can play during that step, but it ceased to exist in step 4.
Does anyone know if there was a reason they don't allow us to cast it during the resolution of another effect? Pangalacial Wurm already set a precedent for the possibility.
Does anyone know if there was a reason they don't allow us to cast it during the resolution of another effect? Pangalacial Wurm already set a precedent for the possibility.
The system of priority exists so that there's only a single player (or, in 2HG, a single team) with permission to take an action like casting a spell or such. This means both that it's not a game of reflexes (whoever says they're casting something first wins), nor a case of both players waiting for the other player to cast their spell first.
If you were to allow players to take actions while a spell is resolving, you'd create those two problematic situations, or you'd actually need to introduce a priority system within the resolving spell, which would cause the problem of determining when these priority passes should happen, as well as clogging up the whole process.
Also, all existing spells/abilities were designed with the understanding that players couldn't casts spells in the middle of resolution. The looter ability isn't supposed to give you a useable card if you have an empty hand.
As for Panglacial Wurm , it is an interesting case, but it doesn't have the problems I mentioned. You can only cast the Wurm while you're searching your library, and there isn't the chance of your opponent trying to cast something at that time.
The system of priority exists so that there's only a single player (or, in 2HG, a single team) with permission to take an action like casting a spell or such. This means both that it's not a game of reflexes (whoever says they're casting something f
Does anyone know if there was a reason they don't allow us to cast it during the resolution of another effect? Pangalacial Wurm already set a precedent for the possibility.
As do many other cards . Still, players are not granted Priority, for the reasons Adeyke stated.
As do many other cards . Still, players are not granted Priority, for the reasons Adeyke stated.
)
Thanks for your patience everyone!
