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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

How in the crap is "Blast Away" anywhere near "bah-roken"?

"Spellsling"?  They called it "Gunslinging" back then.  I wonder whether it was a lawyer or a marketing doof that informed them they were required to pretend this was never the case and not mention it.

My first response to this was a swear. But not in a good way. It seems every set brings with it a new excuse to ban Brainstorm...

In general I actually like the miracle mechanic (if not ridiculous effects like time walk being attached) but I've always seen draw trigger-type things as being perfect for red: The color naturally tends to top-deck anyway and it feels like red's philosphy of acting quickly and without much pause for thought should let it reap rewards for cating cards as soon as they are acquired.

Edit: And this doesn't bode well for Top either, but I never particuarly cared for that card.

It's not necessarily bah-roken, but in an aggressive red deck it's above the curve of burn spell efficiency, with no drawback. Compare to Shrapnel Blast , except no artifacts required. It would win games out of nowhere all the time.

Great article and great mechanic! Sadly, the existence of Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top makes me not like the preview card, Temporal Mastery , very much - it is just too easy for blue to set up the top of the library, and we already know that Time Walk is too good. It's the same old story - Blue is too powerful, and ever since broken Saga, r&d claims they have been trying to tone it down, but they continued to constantly print the strongest cards as blue cards! Fact or Fiction Circular Logic Meloku the Clouded Mirror Remand Cryptic Command Jace, the Mind Sculptor Consecrated Sphinx Snapcaster Mage etc etc.

They already said that they underestimated the power of Delver of Secrets and now delver decks get a hugely powerful effect that multiplies their already significant tempo advantage.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and the Miracle effects won't end up being playable in any constructed format, but to me it seems that giving Blue access to cheap extra turns is playing with fire - Blue decks already wants to run a ton of library manipulation, so I think this may end up working as a "real" Time Walk a bit too often.

Huzzah, an automatic 3/4-of in Delver decks, and our first candidate in the new set for banning! Seriously, how many times does Wizards need to reprint Time Walk before they realize that taking extra turns will always be broken. Even just top-decking this naturally is going to be a huge blowout in so many games, and that's not counting deck manipulation.

My thoughts exactly, Zoomba, about Brainstorm. This card singlehandedly breaks Legacy, as ANY Temporal Mastery you draw might as well read 1UU, discard a card named Brainstorm: take an extra turn after this one. DURING YOUR FRIGGIN' DRAW STEP. And let's not get into the fact that this DOES trigger on other people's turns, so you can Brainstorm a Mastery to the top during your turn, then pass the turn and Brainstorm again on upkeep to essentially Time Stretch them (you will take two turns where all of your resources are untapped). AND any additional instant speed draw effects (Whispers of the Muse, Electrolyze, etc) will work as well. I'm usually a combo player, and as a result I have an unhealthy love for extra turn effects, but this is just OBSCENE. Heck, imagine this in Modern in some kind of Pyro-Flames deck. They have some card manipulation already (Serum Visions), but they could start playing things like Telling Time, Halimar Depths, Index, Magma Jet, Mystic Speculation, or other otherwise horrid cards to get a chance at their Time Walk, and those strategies might actually be GOOD.

Okay, Mark, I know that you like experimenting with the format of your articles, and I usually like it because it keeps things fresh. But please, I'm begging you: Never. Do. This. Again.

I could not keep track of what was going on. It could have worked, if we hadn't been expected to keep continuity of all the stories within straight, but unfortunately, you kept returning to the same stories, as if you hadn't just spent twenty paragraphs writing about something not at all related, as if there was no way we'd have forgotten what you'd said before. The human mind doesn't work that way.


Now, down to business. Miracle is a bad idea. It doesn't excite me at all, because the answer is obvious: Ponder or similar to set up the top of your deck. That's about all you can do with it. It also discourages running any additional card drawing spells, because then you risk drawing the miracle in some non-miraculous way, and are stuck with an extraordinarily overcosted card. However, when you do get miraculous, the effect to cost ratio is absolutely ridiculous. From six mana to one. From seven mana to two. What the heck?

As for the preview card itself, wow. Just wow. How is that safe to print, at all? I mean, Time Walk is completely broken, but this isn't? If you get this card miraculously early, then I can't see opponents coming back from it. I think this card will probably be a staple in most Blue decks, though at least not likely as much so as Jace, the Mind Sculptor was.

This, combined with the fact that Undying is the only returning keyword from Innistrad block, combined with the fact that Soulbind is just boring and the absolute disappointment in the story (Seriously, Avacyn was mortally wounded, and you not only don't explain how she's now suddenly fully-healthy, you don't even mention the wound at all? And you claimed humanity was on the brink of extinction, but suddenly they're able to beat back all the monsters overnight, despite the fact that all of the demons are free and the human's numbers are severely dwindled from before, when they were only just holding their own against the monsters WITH AVACYN'S HELP? This story is an absolute mess...) Sorry, lost my train of thought there... But wow. Innistrad block was awesome, and this set could not be a worse let-down follow-up.

But hey, that's not important at all. Because Return to Ravnica, guys! They could have printed NOTHING in Avacyn Restored's place and the news that we're going back to the best setting in the game next year would STILL have me the most excited I've been for this game in years.

I never complain about cards or mechanics.  My first reaction is always to see the good side...

REALLY?  A mechanic that dramatically increases swingy top decks?  Not good.  A mechanic that rewards game-slowing deck manipulation?  Really not good.  A card that takes that mechanic applies the most broken effect?.  Sounds like a very bad idea.

I agree with those that say this seems broken. Blue likes deck manipulation enough I don't see the cost being a significant enough drawback.

I guess hypothetically it's a dead draw your first turn/starting hand, so maybe you don't run 4. Maybe the correct number is 3 or 2 if you don't have access to brainstorm. But if anything, that makes it worse for the game, to have a card that will show up infrequently but be a wrecking ball when it does.

Also, I'm not quite sure why Wizards decided they wanted to kick logistics in the teeth so much during these sets. Transform, now this? I know people are going to screw up the timing on this. People aren't trained to draw cards carefully enough not to mix them into their hands. I know I'll personally screw this up, a lot. I hope this mechanic isn't at common, otherwise I'll F it up in draft all the time.

Is library manipulation even that important? If your deck does not have too many extra draw spells, or they;re alll instants, it's unlikely to accidentally land in your hand at all. Library manipulation just brings it closer to you - same as with any card.

Any idea how Miracle interacts with instant speed card draws drawing multiple cards? In essence, does draw 3 cards mean you draw your first card, then your second, then your third, or are all 3 drawn simultaneously and all 3 being "firsts".

One day, one of the playtesters came up to Richard and said, "I think one of the cards is broken."
"What do you mean?" asked Richard.
"Well," the playtester said, "I play this card and my opponent always loses on his or her next turn. That seems very powerful."
Richard asked to see the card. In its text box it read: "Your opponent loses next turn."
Richard laughed at the confusion and changed the card to read: "Take an extra turn after this one."
The card would, of course, be called Time Walk.

I like how this suggests Time Walk isn't broken...

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:06PM, nightwyrm wrote:

Any idea how Miracle interacts with instant speed card draws drawing multiple cards? In essence, does draw 3 cards mean you draw your first card, then your second, then your third, or are all 3 drawn simultaneously and all 3 being "firsts".

Each card is counted separately. Draw 3 functions as:
Draw a card
Draw a card
Draw a card.

So if you ancestral recall on your opponent's turn, if this comes up first, you can cast it for 2.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:08PM, CFL wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:06PM, nightwyrm wrote:

Any idea how Miracle interacts with instant speed card draws drawing multiple cards? In essence, does draw 3 cards mean you draw your first card, then your second, then your third, or are all 3 drawn simultaneously and all 3 being "firsts".

Each card is counted separately. Draw 3 functions as:
Draw a card
Draw a card
Draw a card.

So if you ancestral recall on your opponent's turn, if this comes up first, you can cast it for 2.

Thx.  That's what I thought it would be.

Another thought, at least you can't easily snapcaster this. That would be insane. But you can reclaim it. And reclaim is in standard. Are the other aspects of a turn worth -1 card?

Also, any way to move a card from your hand to top of library in standard? Trying to figure out if there's a way to run this as a 4 of.

EDIT: Forget reclaim. Run noxious revival. No need to splash green. Take an existing delver list, subtract some cards, and add noxious revival and this. I think an aggro deck is willing to suck up the card disadvantage. And noxious revival ensures you hit your delver trigger. This on top, trigger delver, cast this, extra turn, swing twice with Delver.

I'd be really surprised if that's not insane.

EDIT 2: Chronego pointed out that it's exile not place in graveyard. So won't work. Burning wish won't work either because puts into hand.

The inner U/W player in me just had a nerdgasm when I saw this preview. Seriously, just wow. I love seeing new versions of the P9 come out.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:23PM, CFL wrote:

Another thought, at least you can't easily snapcaster this. That would be insane. But you can reclaim it. And reclaim is in standard. Are the other aspects of a turn worth -1 card?

Also, any way to move a card from your hand to top of library in standard? Trying to figure out if there's a way to run this as a 4 of.

EDIT: Forget reclaim. Run noxious revival. No need to splash green. Take an existing delver list, subtract some cards, and add noxious revival and this. I think an aggro deck is willing to suck up the card disadvantage. And noxious revival ensures you hit your delver trigger. This on top, trigger delver, cast this, extra turn, swing twice with Delver.

I'd be really surprised if that's not insane.

At least they got that much right, on this card. "Exile Temporal Mastery". So no Reclaim shenanigans.

Temporal Extortion in a format with Ponder scares me a little. Will my Mystical Tutor get any other card again, ever? Well, maybe that's going a bit far, but this card does seem pretty good.

Also, I think they got the cost wrong on this.

Should be 5UU+100$.

Miracle- 1U+40$ (You may play Temporal mastery for its miracle cost + price tag, if it is the first card drawn this turn, and if it is after December 2012, and has therefore been banned in every major format).

Two other things just popped out at me while re-reading the article. First, mentionning the moxie of Tinsman to just make the mechanic as is a deal with rules consequences to be handled later and by other people seems less inspired than short-sighted to me. Second, you talk about how early designs of miracle were split between cost reduction and adding a rider effect to the "miracle casting". But then you just drop this thread by saying "development picked cost reduction" without explaining why.

These thing, combined with making a marginally more complicated Time Walk, make me unconvinced and uneasy about Miracle. You wrote about how draw triggers have been a design wish for years, but you still haven't sold us on why they suddenly work, much less that they're a good idea in this form.

I hate this card so much. Time walk, thats it? how about noxious revival and snapcaster mage, you realize those are in the same format right? Now you have to ban something in legacy, jace will likely be restricted in vintage. With ponder this card is just insanity at the point of no return. What are you doing? I can't play legacy now until that abomination is banned.

When cards like Noxious Revival and Ponder exist and the Scry mechanic exists, this mechanic is utterly broken.

This card is going to be banned right the hell away. 

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:12PM, mlanier131 wrote:

I hate this card so much. Time walk, thats it? how about noxious revival and snapcaster mage, you realize those are in the same format right? Now you have to ban something in legacy, jace will likely be restricted in vintage. With ponder this card is just insanity at the point of no return. What are you doing? I can't play legacy now until that abomination is banned.

They're well aware of Noxious Revival. You might want to read Temporal Mastery again, closer this time. Revival doesn't let you reuse it.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:18PM, zammm wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:12PM, mlanier131 wrote:

I hate this card so much. Time walk, thats it? how about noxious revival and snapcaster mage, you realize those are in the same format right? Now you have to ban something in legacy, jace will likely be restricted in vintage. With ponder this card is just insanity at the point of no return. What are you doing? I can't play legacy now until that abomination is banned.

They're well aware of Noxious Revival. You might want to read Temporal Mastery again, closer this time. Revival doesn't let you reuse it.

T3 alchemy pitching it, noxious revival on upkeep.


And I can do that all day since it's not restricted, I can play 4. 

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:22PM, deth2munkies wrote:

T3 alchemy pitching it, noxious revival on upkeep.


And I can do that all day since it's not restricted, I can play 4. 

Yes, it's potentially extremely powerful. It's altogether possible it will see play, even in the eternal formats. My point was that mlanier seemed to be under the misapprehension that you could use and reuse Noxious Revival with Snapcaster Mage to get large numbers of extra turns out of a single Mastery. Which you can't.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:18PM, zammm wrote:

They're well aware of Noxious Revival. You might want to read Temporal Mastery again, closer this time. Revival doesn't let you reuse it.

There's no re-using to it.  It's getting it out of the hand and to the top of the library, where it belongs.
Temporal Mastery is an all-but-dead card once it's in hand (via the initial 7, or an extra draw somewhere, or drawing it without 1U available).  Find some way to pitch it, Noxious it back to the library, then Timewalk.

My problem is that I think this is just a mechanically bad idea. I compare it to Fateful Hour, and I feel the same way there as well.

Fateful Hour: great mechanic on a decent card.

Miracle: broken mechanic on an awful card.

In both cases, you have mechanics that "don't matter very often." You rarely can use Fateful Hour, so most of the time that line of text is wasted space. Miracles are even worse, most of the time it comes into your hands in the wrong way and is completely dead for several more turns of the game, in which you will get out a very overcosted perk.

At least with Fateful Hour, you got to use the card, with Miracle you may not even ever get to use the card-- more importantly, it's just a much worse option than anything you could do.

Both are fine in limited, both have some part to play in constructed (although one much more offensively), but both are cards where the mechanic (or the casting cost) is likely not to be relevant most of the time. Both are very weak mechanics indeed-- I want to actually be able to use the cool cards I deck.

At least we still have Souldbond to look forward to: a good mechanic on fine cards. 

Card sleeves were very much a thing in 1996.  Most of the people I played with in 1995 sleeved their decks.  But at the time most sleeves were transparent on both sides, unlike today's sleeves.

I liked the structure of the article a lot.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:08PM, Nyktos wrote:

One day, one of the playtesters came up to Richard and said, "I think one of the cards is broken."
"What do you mean?" asked Richard.
"Well," the playtester said, "I play this card and my opponent always loses on his or her next turn. That seems very powerful."
Richard asked to see the card. In its text box it read: "Your opponent loses next turn."
Richard laughed at the confusion and changed the card to read: "Take an extra turn after this one."
The card would, of course, be called Time Walk.

I like how this suggests Time Walk isn't broken...

Truth.

This card gives me hives.  I'm fine with Miracles, but did blue mages really have to get one? Never mind that the one they get is a bloody Time Walk? It's just not fair.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 11:39PM, Qmark wrote:

There's no re-using to it.  It's getting it out of the hand and to the top of the library, where it belongs.
Temporal Mastery is an all-but-dead card once it's in hand (via the initial 7, or an extra draw somewhere, or drawing it without 1U available).  Find some way to pitch it, Noxious it back to the library, then Timewalk.

If it becomes overly powerful, I can easily see people working to counteract that kind of sequence. Thought Scour has already seen competitive play and answers that sequence fairly well. Heck, people might even start sideboarding Ghoulcaller's Bell or Shriekhorn if it gets really bad. Ooh, possibly Horrifying Revelation if the setup's done via Ponder --now that would be a kick in the pants. I'd like to see that.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:37PM, chronego wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:23PM, CFL wrote:

Another thought, at least you can't easily snapcaster this. That would be insane. But you can reclaim it. And reclaim is in standard. Are the other aspects of a turn worth -1 card?

Also, any way to move a card from your hand to top of library in standard? Trying to figure out if there's a way to run this as a 4 of.

EDIT: Forget reclaim. Run noxious revival. No need to splash green. Take an existing delver list, subtract some cards, and add noxious revival and this. I think an aggro deck is willing to suck up the card disadvantage. And noxious revival ensures you hit your delver trigger. This on top, trigger delver, cast this, extra turn, swing twice with Delver.

I'd be really surprised if that's not insane.

At least they got that much right, on this card. "Exile Temporal Mastery". So no Reclaim shenanigans.

Unless the card was discarded to something, like Faithless Looting, or Liliana, etc. This card is actually broken. I expect bannings.

I feel this is happening because the head of the teams are too emotionally invested into the cards they suggest. Listening to the way Mark has been talking about a lot of cards recently makes me feel like a lot of his team disagreed with his suggestions yet he keeps pushing them through even if it's probably not for the best.

Maybe Wizards should start looking at another layer of producing cards? One with more power to keep the ego of some of the designer in check so we don't get such ridiculously stupid mechanics like this.

I think it's great. Amazingly undercosted abilities that require some amount of setup are exactly what Johnny loves, and this card delivers very nicely. Can certainly see trying it out in u/r delver, with faithless looting + noxious revival to set up delver flips & miracle draws.
Don't listen to the haters. I don't think it will dominate any of the formats, but it will see a little play in all of them. Especially in Modern Pyromancer Ascension, which already uses noxious revival and thought scour, might end up with faithless looting for this guy.

There seem to be plenty of answers to most of the scenarios presented in this thread already (heck, some of them are in IN/DA!), although it's true that when this does work it will be insane.  Then again, isn't that what Mythic Rares are all about?

(Oh, and I'd just like to say that I like non-linear narratives, so this article worked out just fine for me. If anything it was a bit too over-structured, but that's OK for something that may be the first time a person has seen it.)

Apart from the inherent broken-ness of this card and of the mechanic itself (basically it works ALWAYS unless the card was in your opening hand or you somehow draw it second or third in the turn... not very likely: you could as well say: 90% of the times you can play the cards with their miracle cost. You could not always want to do it, but if all effects are like this, you would be quite silly to "not want" to cast Time Walk , while having the chance to do it), apart from this, I was saying, what I really hate most about this mechanic (and consider I am not usually a hater for any new things Wizards give to us) is how it dramatically changes the way we materially play Magic for so little reason.
I mean: now EVERYONE should ALWAYS slowly peel the card at the top of his deck and CAREFULLY watch it, JUST IN CASE it is a spell with miracle? And also spend time pondering (sorry for the pun) if he should really cast it with miracle (maybe not always obvious), in the case it happens to really be a spell with miracle? And that in all the formats where miracle is legal (so basically every format right now)? You could answer: "no, just in the case you have cards with miracle in your deck", and I would say: "Ok, so, if you just uncarefully draw your cards as always, you're basically giving away to your opponent the info that you are not playing spells with miracle" (and that could be relevant).
But let's assume that you'll do this only if you actually have cards with miracle in your deck: how do you avoid cheats or, at the very least, confusion, if you don't draw ANY first card of your turn the way I described above? And how dumb it is radically changing like this the way we all are used to draw our spell? I can see already some casual circles, with players continually flickering the cards in their hands, where one player draws, flickers a little, and then says "oh, wait, it had miracle!" and another one says "Stop it, you had it in your hand since the beginning" and chaos ensues. And probably the guy didn't want to cheat at all. It's only that we are used to pay way less attention to our draw phase and if you want to force us to ALWAYS pay so much attention instead, you're simply going against human nature (a big no-no, Mark Rosewater, isn't it?).

And all of this mess, for all of the draw phases, all of the time in all of the games, for what kind of reward? Maybe 5% of the time (I am exaggerating) you'll actually peel a spell with miracle (I don't think the ratio would be much higher, unless full "miracle" decks appear in some format). I mean, you annoys 95% of players' draw phases, to get a reward 5% of the time...

Sorry guys, i could go on for hours about this, but I swear I never saw a worse-designed mechanic ever in my life: and I play Magic since a dozen years, and I very rarely was an hater for whatever new mechanic... But this is really so bad, and not for mechanical issues or power level, but because it affects in a poor, annoying way the very way we use to play this game. Sigh.

This will contribute to a unique drafting environment, to be sure.

But players are going to have to be VERY careful how they draw cards, especially in formats with Brainstorm. You just can't grab a pile of cards off the top of your library anymore, nor can you immediately flip your draw into your hand like so many players do.

Of all the miracle cards that are or will be, this is the one I'm least looking forward to playing against.

I loled at the insertion of the Gordian Knot tale in the middle of the article.
Nicely done, Mark.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:08PM, CFL wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:06PM, nightwyrm wrote:

Any idea how Miracle interacts with instant speed card draws drawing multiple cards? In essence, does draw 3 cards mean you draw your first card, then your second, then your third, or are all 3 drawn simultaneously and all 3 being "firsts".

Each card is counted separately. Draw 3 functions as:
Draw a card
Draw a card
Draw a card.

So if you ancestral recall on your opponent's turn, if this comes up first, you can cast it for 2.

I assume this will be handled somewhat like madness. In this scenario, you can't cast the first card when you draw it because you are in the middle of resolving a spell that requires that you draw 2 more cards. You'd reveal the first card, but you couldn't actually cast it until the others were drawn. I haven't seen them address how to handle this mechanic on other players' turns.  

As someone that has cast Time Walk many times, I found this article to be insulting. I rarely rip time walk and cast it right then. That isn't what actually casting time walk for 1U is all about. To claim that this card will make that happen is taking advantage of your customers. It crosses the line to abusing players that want to 'live a dream' by tricking them into paying 1U for something when it is correct for them hold it and pay 5UU for it.

It will be a nightmare when players draw it and forget to reveal it because they put it in their hand by habit and now have to pay 5UU for it.   

There's a reason miracles can't be put into a system - they would ruin everything. Bannhammer is comming and it is either gonna have to swing like mad or take the miracle with it.

Ergo Wotc failed.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:03PM, CFL wrote:

decided they wanted to kick logistics in the teeth so much during these sets. Transform, now this? I know people are going to screw up the timing on this. People aren't trained to draw cards carefully enough not to mix them into their hands. I know I'll personally screw this up, a lot. I hope this mechanic isn't at common, otherwise I'll F it up in draft all the time.

This, completely. As blissett put it, it's against human nature - against the way that people play. It's fine to screw with the strategic decisions of playing Magic like landfall did - that's got strategic interest. But screwing with the logistics of playing Magic is just asking to get in the way of people playing the game.

I think this whole extended-block (what's the term for Innistrad+Dark Ascension+Avacyn Restored?) will go down in MtG history as one of those years of really bad ideas. Like Kamigawa block or Homelands, but for the mechanics of how the game is actually played. DFCs followed by miracle... yech.

(It's a pity, because soulbond looks like a really fun mechanic and one I'm looking forward to playing with a lot. But it's unlike miracle in that it actually works within the rules and logistics of how people play Magic.) 

I'm just going to make a quick post and never look at this thread again.

The article was masterfully done - jumping from point to point in time plays on the whole Temporal Mastery (after all, the ability to remember the past can be construed as a mastery of time, or Temporal Mastery) stick.

That said, I hate Miracle. Its bad enough Delver can just win games when you get lucky, but now we have these spells. I don't mind the occasional topdeck to win, but at the same time I don't like this. 

Looks like great fun with Sensei's Divining Top . Not only  can you control exactly when you get your extra turn, you get full use of your mana on both of your turns by playing Temporal Mastery off of Top's tap ability (possibly in response to Top's rearrangement ability, as well) during your opponent's turn.

I for one welcome Miracle, it makes an exciting moment in some games (the topdeck) even more exciting. If the arguement is the draw confusion, I question, with something as good as card drawing why you're just jamming the 2+ cards into your hand?

As to the above poster, how are you keeping track of Soulbound and time stamp issues? Soulbound seems like a lot to keep track of on a dynamic board (especially in a set with 'flicker' effects).

I hate that they just passed the buck to judges instead of designing the mechanic properly.  And it wasn't even that difficult to solve...all they had to do was make Miracle : if this was your first drawn card this turn AND you have no cards in hand then cast it for it's Miracle cost.  This would have avoided the entire "but was that really the card you drew„ issue ...

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:01PM, chronego wrote:

This, combined with the fact that Undying is the only returning keyword from Innistrad block, combined with the fact that Soulbind is just boring and the absolute disappointment in the story (Seriously, Avacyn was mortally wounded, and you not only don't explain how she's now suddenly fully-healthy, you don't even mention the wound at all? And you claimed humanity was on the brink of extinction, but suddenly they're able to beat back all the monsters overnight, despite the fact that all of the demons are free and the human's numbers are severely dwindled from before, when they were only just holding their own against the monsters WITH AVACYN'S HELP? This story is an absolute mess...) Sorry, lost my train of thought there... But wow. Innistrad block was awesome, and this set could not be a worse let-down follow-up.

Well, here's hoping they're setting up a second Innistrad block where Avacyn just dies because it turned out Griselbrand cursed her or something (or Avacyn turns out to be Griselbrand). For the rest, I totally agree. Wizards really dropped the ball hard on this one. After so many years of bad endings, it appears they've forgotten how to write a happy one (or, more importantly, how to set one up believably). It's just deus ex machina (literally), and woo, humans win!

I mean, even the whole "Liliana walks in and kills Griselbrand" thing was completely anticlimactic.

the sky is falling.. the sky is falling /shakes head 

It's not that bad.. And I'm sorry but if you cant learn yourself to not rip the first card and put it in your hand right away, you got something wrong with ya.. Magic is a MENTAL game, and as such.. knowing you have a new mechanic that requires you to NOT peel that first draw and throw in in your hand is just part of the deal.  If your using the card just dont get in such a big hurry.

My worry is I can already see Star CIty Games charging 75-100 right out the gate for this damn card. its gonna be stupid.  and Yea yea. if ya cant afford those prices you dont deserve to play competitivly /rolles eyes    about the most ignorant/self rightous thing a person can say.  But Mark my words this will not be a cheap card.  /rant off

ok so SSG wasnt as greedy as they usually are.. It's starting out at 24.99, so not horrible but If it see's any kind of t2 play i bet it jumps up to the 75-100 range, wich I'm sure it will.

The Miracle mechanic is ingenious.

The effects that they attach to the mechanic are a little nuts (at least a the legendary level) but that doesn't make the mechanic itself bad....

I thinks its the best mechanic out of the new set.

First of all, sorry for my English.

I respect your opinions, and I love to read them, and I agree with a lot of the posts. However, it's untolerable how some people says that Wizards is crazy to print Temporal Mastery and that it will be banned soon, only five minutes after knowing the card. Wizards has been testing this set, and more concretely this card, to avoid things like a color unbalance and a Standard brokeness, so the designers and the developers know a lot more than us about the card.

Of course, they can be wrong. Maybe you're right, and the card is completely broken. But maybe you're not. Express yourself without any fear, but don't say Wizards is crazy or other things without basis.

Another thing I'd like to comment is that there's a difference between a topdecked Time Walk and a topdecked Temporal Mastery. You can cast a Time Walk (topdecked or not) as early as your second turn, but Temporal Mastery "only" as early as your third turn, and if you're lucky enough to draw it at the exact moment.  It is a dead card if you have it in your opening hand, because no deck other than a strong control deck can allow to cast a 7 mana spell (and if you don't believe me, ask to Karn Liberated). Even if you can hard-cast it, it's not as game breaking as Elesh Norn. As well, the "exile after use" is more important than it might seem, because otherwise Noxious Revival would be too powerful combined with this, as many of you have said.Well, I'm trying to say that, in my opinion, the card is format defining, but not broken.

I can't wait, it seems so fun to play with. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be very, very expensive...

Thought scour, Ghoulcallers bell, jaces erasure, Shriek horn, mindcrank, horriying revelation, grindclock.  Any sorf of mill can completly throw off miracle.  People need to not freak out about unreleased mechanics. There are counters for everythin. I would be more worried about blinking an acidic slime 47 times whith clould shift and redemtion angel then an easily millable time walk : ) If you want to go crazy and stop topdeck manipulation, throw in a decimator web lol.  Or even a Nhil spellbomb for anti noxious. Just saying... : )
 

Apr 9, 2012 -- 8:53AM, Zindaras wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:01PM, chronego wrote:

This, combined with the fact that Undying is the only returning keyword from Innistrad block, combined with the fact that Soulbind is just boring and the absolute disappointment in the story (Seriously, Avacyn was mortally wounded, and you not only don't explain how she's now suddenly fully-healthy, you don't even mention the wound at all? And you claimed humanity was on the brink of extinction, but suddenly they're able to beat back all the monsters overnight, despite the fact that all of the demons are free and the human's numbers are severely dwindled from before, when they were only just holding their own against the monsters WITH AVACYN'S HELP? This story is an absolute mess...) Sorry, lost my train of thought there... But wow. Innistrad block was awesome, and this set could not be a worse let-down follow-up.

Well, here's hoping they're setting up a second Innistrad block where Avacyn just dies because it turned out Griselbrand cursed her or something (or Avacyn turns out to be Griselbrand). For the rest, I totally agree. Wizards really dropped the ball hard on this one. After so many years of bad endings, it appears they've forgotten how to write a happy one (or, more importantly, how to set one up believably). It's just deus ex machina (literally), and woo, humans win!

I mean, even the whole "Liliana walks in and kills Griselbrand" thing was completely anticlimactic.

I thought about it some more, and I'm officially calling this.

Also, personally, I don't think extra turns should be mythic rare and I think the only reason this card is mythic is power level.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 8:54AM, mk1976 wrote:

the sky is falling.. the sky is falling /shakes head 

It's not that bad.. And I'm sorry but if you cant learn yourself to not rip the first card and put it in your hand right away, you got something wrong with ya.. Magic is a MENTAL game, and as such.. knowing you have a new mechanic that requires you to NOT peel that first draw and throw in in your hand is just part of the deal.  If your using the card just dont get in such a big hurry.

My worry is I can already see Star CIty Games charging 75-100 right out the gate for this damn card. its gonna be stupid.  and Yea yea. if ya cant afford those prices you dont deserve to play competitivly /rolles eyes    about the most ignorant/self rightous thing a person can say.  But Mark my words this will not be a cheap card.  /rant off

ok so SSG wasnt as greedy as they usually are.. It's starting out at 24.99, so not horrible but If it see's any kind of t2 play i bet it jumps up to the 75-100 range, wich I'm sure it will.

StarcityGames has Temporal Mastery up to $29.99, $5 dollar increase in the last 3 hours!

1. Miracle combined with Timewalk and Ponder = Win for Delver or otherwise.  Temporal Master + Faithless Looting in a Burning Vengeance deck can be viable.  What it really says to me is, every standard format will be dominated by decks running blue.

Like me, Wizards appears to be tired and bored with decks that focus on creatures.  Like someone posted before, WOTC is making cards they like instead of cards that are balanced and bring about a full appreciation of all colors/styles.  It's like they went from one extreme (Squadron hawk + swords) to the other (Delver + extra turns).  Isn't there a middle ground?  And if not, why can't WOTC build a set around Black domination!?! 

Apr 9, 2012 -- 8:24AM, TheMonadNomad wrote:

I hate that they just passed the buck to judges instead of designing the mechanic properly. And it wasn't even that difficult to solve...all they had to do was make Miracle : if this was your first drawn card this turn AND you have no cards in hand then cast it for it's Miracle cost. This would have avoided the entire "but was that really the card you drew„ issue ...

I don't even get the issue. It's just like Delver: look at the top, reveal or don't, if not add to hand. We've been playing with Miracle for 6 months now.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 9:58AM, amobo wrote:

However, it's untolerable how some people says that Wizards is crazy to print Temporal Mastery and that it will be banned soon, only five minutes after knowing the card. Wizards has been testing this set, and more concretely this card, to avoid things like a color unbalance and a Standard brokeness, so the designers and the developers know a lot more than us about the card.

You might be right, it might not be banned.  It might not even be good in Standard.  One of the things that keeps this card down is it weakens card draw, something important to the very decks that most want to use it and abuse it.  

But that is part of the point as well.  This mechanic is so swingy, it is like trying to balance a pencil on its tip.  It can be done (use a new pencil and don't sharpen it) but it isn't easy.  So far, it looks like they pushed the swinginess (that was the point of the mechanic, after all) as opposed to toning it down.

Dramatic top decks for the win are exciting because they are rare.  You take away the rareness and you lose the excitement.  Instead, you get games that feel too random.

I'm more concerned about this card in Classic (or legacy) than I am in Standard, partly because I don't play standard, but primarily because there are more deck manipulation tools outside of standard.

Draw this in your opening hand in standard, it's pretty useless unless you can discard it and put it back on top later (faithless looting and noxious revival help there -- 2 mana to discard it, 2 life to put it on top, and 2 mana next turn for the extra turn).

If you're playing second and you draw this, you're also in the same scenario. The same is true if you draw this on your second draw if you didn't go first. If you draw this on your second draw but you did go first, you could get an extra turn in there easily. Everyone can think of best case scenarios, that's easy...

Play first, drop an island, play delver, second turn draw ponder, flip delver, play ponder, drop another delver, put temporal mastery on top of library for next turn (second in line so you don't draw it with ponder...). Attack for 3. Next turn draw Temporal Mastery, cast it, flip your second delver, attack for 6. Drop an island. Cast ponder, possibly set up another temporal mastery. Take your extra turn...  and since we're going for ideal here, let's assume you draw a second temporal mastery! Wahooo! Cast that, drop an island. Two mana open for some equipment that you will equip next turn. Attack for 6 again. That's 15 damage so far. Now take your second extra turn and attach that equipment and attack for a minimum of 6...

During all of that, your opponent will have two lands out. If they're playing black or red, then geistflame and tragic slip would really come in handy here, but since this is ideal blue, you probably had a mental misstep.

welcome to a world where:
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Brainstorm
and Time Walk
will rule like a king on his throne

my guess: this card is BROKEN
i hope to wrong though... 

Apr 9, 2012 -- 10:25AM, Mimicvatmasta1 wrote:

Thought scour, Ghoulcallers bell, jaces erasure, Shriek horn, mindcrank, horriying revelation, grindclock.  Any sorf of mill can completly throw off miracle.  People need to not freak out about unreleased mechanics. There are counters for everythin. I would be more worried about blinking an acidic slime 47 times whith clould shift and redemtion angel then an easily millable time walk : ) If you want to go crazy and stop topdeck manipulation, throw in a decimator web lol.  Or even a Nhil spellbomb for anti noxious. Just saying... : )
 

That's assuming they're manipulating the top of their library and didn't foresee you having milling. What of the times when they just include the miracles and hope to draw them regularly? You could, instead of milling one away, be milling away all the cards in the way and setting them up for it instead. Just saying "You can deal with it if you know it's coming" doesn't mean the card (and mechanic itself) isn't ridiculously powerful. Yes, it won't be as bad as people here are saying, because Miracle is difficult to build around properly (which is one of the reasons I dislike it; it looks like a Johnny mechanic, but it really isn't. The answer is obvious: manipulate the top of your deck, and even then, you're still actively discouraged from running additional card draw...) but that doesn't mean it won't be bad at all. It makes one of the swingiest parts of the game (the topdeck) a whole heck of a lot swingier, and for me and many others, that does not equate to fun.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Zindaras wrote:

I thought about it some more, and I'm officially calling this.

Also, personally, I don't think extra turns should be mythic rare and I think the only reason this card is mythic is power level.

I don't see how it's possible that Avacyn could secretly be Griselbrand. Liliana killed her so quickly (boo anticlimax) but Avacyn's powers continued to function.

Here's what I wish they'd have done:
Reveal that the Helvault can only store demons (and angels) because they are beings of pure mana, and it stores the essence of mana, not actual creatures. So when Avacyn went in, her mana essence got mixed with that of all the demons. When the Helvault is broken, and its magic tries to reform all of those captured within, it reforms Avacyn (and Griselbrand) far more powerful than before, because they've now absorbed so much extra mana. As a consequence, however, Avacyn became corrupted by the Black mana.
See, then we'd actually have a REASON for her to have been healed miraculously, a reason that she is suddenly able to push back the tides of darknesss so much more effectively than before, and have an actual villain that could have survived Liliana's assault and still be around for some actual conflict in the story. It also would explain why she enslaved the werewolves (she'd be seeking more power, a la her new and improved Black side). And would give Sorin something to do in the story: find a way to purify his creation. Wouldn't this have been a much better twist than the non-twist "Crack the Helvault and humans win!"?

and up and up it goes /sigh  Starting price : 24.99  Current price: 34.99  .. the day isnt even over yet and it's gone up 10 freeking dollars.. /shakes head

Apr 9, 2012 -- 2:59PM, chronego wrote:

Apr 9, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Zindaras wrote:

I thought about it some more, and I'm officially calling this.

Also, personally, I don't think extra turns should be mythic rare and I think the only reason this card is mythic is power level.

I don't see how it's possible that Avacyn could secretly be Griselbrand. Liliana killed her so quickly (boo anticlimax) but Avacyn's powers continued to function.

Here's what I wish they'd have done:
Reveal that the Helvault can only store demons (and angels) because they are beings of pure mana, and it stores the essence of mana, not actual creatures. So when Avacyn went in, her mana essence got mixed with that of all the demons. When the Helvault is broken, and its magic tries to reform all of those captured within, it reforms Avacyn (and Griselbrand) far more powerful than before, because they've now absorbed so much extra mana. As a consequence, however, Avacyn became corrupted by the Black mana.
See, then we'd actually have a REASON for her to have been healed miraculously, a reason that she is suddenly able to push back the tides of darknesss so much more effectively than before, and have an actual villain that could have survived Liliana's assault and still be around for some actual conflict in the story. It also would explain why she enslaved the werewolves (she'd be seeking more power, a la her new and improved Black side). And would give Sorin something to do in the story: find a way to purify his creation. Wouldn't this have been a much better twist than the non-twist "Crack the Helvault and humans win!"?

In my story, the two switched: it would explain why Avacyn is suddenly more powerful and Griselbrand was such a wuss. Liliana did not kill Griselbrand; she killed Avacyn. This makes it a lot more interesting down the line when Liliana has killed all the other demons.

To be honest, I like your version as well. Personally, I think they should've done this, but then end on a "plane teetering on the balance once more" rather than this whole "humans win yay" storyline we got.

It's actually a bit sad, given the crap Wizards has gotten for the depressing storyline endings the past couple of years. But, hey, should've done a better write-up.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Zindaras wrote:

In my story, the two switched: it would explain why Avacyn is suddenly more powerful and Griselbrand was such a wuss. Liliana did not kill Griselbrand; she killed Avacyn. This makes it a lot more interesting down the line when Liliana has killed all the other demons.

Ahh, that makes sense. Avacyn-in-Griselbrand's-body was so easy to kill because she was still recovering from a mortal wound... Well, I hope your theory is right. It's certainly a much better one than what we've got right now.

To be honest, I like your version as well. Personally, I think they should've done this, but then end on a "plane teetering on the balance once more" rather than this whole "humans win yay" storyline we got.

Thanks And yeah, I don't want them to end with "humans win", because it makes the plane unable to be revisited later (or if we do revisit it again, it'll lack any of the interest from the first time around). But Wizards is bound and determined that, after the last few blocks ended on unhappy notes, they have to give us a happy ending this time. Sigh.

*shrugs* Avacyn came out of the Helvault healed because the Helvault stored her as mana rather than as a physical body. Or because she couldn't die in the Helvault and the natural healing properties of her magic therefore had time to work and heal her wound.

Or, and this is my favorite explanation, because all the magic originating from her that normally would have been transferred to her clerics was trapped in the Helvault and built up, leading to a massive surge upon her release that allowed her to heal what otherwise would have been a mortal wound. (And potentially also do other things she wasn't powerful enough to do before--the Cursemute Decree, perhaps?) It's like stepping on a garden hose in a cartoon--the water builds up at the blockage, and once it's released there's an extra-powerful spray before things settle down to normal.

I guess blue wasn't strong enough already.  The rich get richer...

I feel like these cards, and the marketing that goes into them, is really really irresponsible. Time Reversal is bulk, and didn't even come close to staring out that way. Next we have Visions from Beyond as an Ancestral Recall variant that got people so excited. And it flopped. Here we have Maro showing this card next to Time Walk when it isn't even close. Time Walk is awesome when you regrow it. When you tutor for it and cast it-on the same turn, not with vampiric tutor. It is at its best when it you have it early and set it up. Time Warp is just straight up better for all of these reasons than this card.

It has applications outside of standard, but this article appears to try and hide that manipulating your top deck is the only way this card is ever usable.  This card is exploiting people. If you lost your money to this dirty trick, remember this article, and stop trusting this guy. He sells snake oil for a living.

I, for one, loved the Pulp-Fiction-style column. I had to pause the new Shins album because my "System 2" brain couldn't track both the music and the article at the same time. +1!

I don't share the Chicken Little responses to Temporal Mastery here. Miracle is cute, although I'm worried that the version that left development (which only changes overcosted spells into undercosted spells) feels a bit dry.

I'm scared of today's preview,just scared.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 8:53PM, rexman07 wrote:

I, for one, loved the Pulp-Fiction-style column. I had to pause the new Shins album because my "System 2" brain couldn't track both the music and the article at the same time. +1!

I enjoyed Pulp Fiction. Comparing this article to Pulp Fiction is dishonest, and here's why:
Every segment of Pulp Fiction was a finished story in its own right. You didn't have to remember everything that had come before; any connections between the stories were nice "aha" moments if you found them, but if you never did you could still know what was going on at any given time.
This article, on the other hand, kept dropping a story only to pick it up some dozen paragraphs later, as if there'd been nothing in the interim, as if you'd remember exactly what had already happened, exactly where it'd left off. Had Mark written everything from one story, and then moved onto the next, and then the next, but done it out of historical order, that would be Pulp Fiction. This, however, is just a mess.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 12:03PM, Senyuno wrote:

I don't even get the issue. It's just like Delver: look at the top, reveal or don't, if not add to hand. We've been playing with Miracle for 6 months now.

Besides having to do that when you don't have an untransformed Delver in play, I agree.

Actually, pros peel their draws one at a time and slide them across the table to avoid drawing multiple cards or drawing when they should not.

They'll never ban Brainstorm in Legacy, so this one is getting banned instead. It'll be gone as fast as Mental Misstep . Don't buy this card if you want it for an eternal format. Temporal Mastery is as stupid as Balance .

Which feels worse on the recieving end: BBE cascading into Blightning , or Delver revealing Temporal Mastery?

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:37PM, chronego wrote:

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:23PM, CFL wrote:

Another thought, at least you can't easily snapcaster this. That would be insane. But you can reclaim it. And reclaim is in standard. Are the other aspects of a turn worth -1 card?

Also, any way to move a card from your hand to top of library in standard? Trying to figure out if there's a way to run this as a 4 of.

EDIT: Forget reclaim. Run noxious revival. No need to splash green. Take an existing delver list, subtract some cards, and add noxious revival and this. I think an aggro deck is willing to suck up the card disadvantage. And noxious revival ensures you hit your delver trigger. This on top, trigger delver, cast this, extra turn, swing twice with Delver.

I'd be really surprised if that's not insane.

At least they got that much right, on this card. "Exile Temporal Mastery". So no Reclaim shenanigans.

yes reclaim chenanigans. with faithless looting and that mill 2 draw a card card.

Apr 8, 2012 -- 10:56PM, Zoomba wrote:

Two other things just popped out at me while re-reading the article. First, mentionning the moxie of Tinsman to just make the mechanic as is a deal with rules consequences to be handled later and by other people seems less inspired than short-sighted to me. Second, you talk about how early designs of miracle were split between cost reduction and adding a rider effect to the "miracle casting". But then you just drop this thread by saying "development picked cost reduction" without explaining why.

These thing, combined with making a marginally more complicated Time Walk, make me unconvinced and uneasy about Miracle. You wrote about how draw triggers have been a design wish for years, but you still haven't sold us on why they suddenly work, much less that they're a good idea in this form.

Very this.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 9:10PM, Katastrophe wrote:

Apr 9, 2012 -- 12:03PM, Senyuno wrote:

I don't even get the issue. It's just like Delver: look at the top, reveal or don't, if not add to hand. We've been playing with Miracle for 6 months now.

Besides having to do that when you don't have an untransformed Delver in play, I agree.

Actually, pros peel their draws one at a time and slide them across the table to avoid drawing multiple cards or drawing when they should not.

They'll never ban Brainstorm in Legacy, so this one is getting banned instead. It'll be gone as fast as Mental Misstep . Don't buy this card if you want it for an eternal format. Temporal Mastery is as stupid as Balance .

Which feels worse on the recieving end: BBE cascading into Blightning , or Delver revealing Temporal Mastery?

BBE into Blightning, obviously.

Delver revealing Mastery means you're about to receive 6 damage.

BBE into Blightning means you're about to receive 6 damage, and discard two cards.

Temporal Mastery is now $39.99 at StarCityGames, up $15 since yesterday morning.

Some more notes about the preview card and miracle cards in general:

1.   In my opinion,  Temporal Mastery will almost always be cast for 2 mana (except in EDH maybe), since it is so easy to set up with the cards available today.  This makes the card too powerful for Standard, Legacy or any other format. The card wont only give you an extra turn; decks will be built to draw multiple  Temporal Mastery to take complete control of games.

2.  As someone posted already, Miracle cards are undervalued for their casting cost, but overvalued for their miracle cost.  This means that the player has to decide if the chance to draw the card (determing the percentages to draw, but after your first 7 to decide how many to have in a deck is way beyond me!) is worth the chance of having it stuck in your hand in the beginning.  That only increases a card like  Temporal Mastery 's value in combination with Ponder (in standard) and other cards that allow for draw setup will ensure it is cast for it's undercosted miracle price.

3.  As far as how people draw cards, this will be a nightmare in all but the high level tourneys.  Normal FNM, drafts and sealed tourneys at the local shop do not have constant judge supervision; usually the local judges in my area are playtesting tournament decks once the games begin.  And in normal casual play, there is no judge presence.  So now, all players have to change the way they draw cards AND have to closely watch the other player(s) draw their cards to ensure there is no funny business.  This will only bring trouble as the games are played and people inadvertantly (or on purpose) try to play miracle cards from their hand.  As someone posted before, MTG mechanics that go against human nature fail.  Marc pounds this on a regular basis in his articles.  Yet he allowed an enthusiastic designer break this rule simply by putting it off on the local judges?  A serious misstep in judgemnt in my opinion.

4.  After some of the recently printed cards Stoneforge Mystic , Jace, the Mind-sculptor , Lingering Souls (In limited), WOTC either did not do enough extensive playtesting, did not do enough research into card interaction with current cards (like when Batterskull was introduced in New Phyrexia), or they have lost their damn minds and don't care about balance and are willing to simply ban cards to fix their design mistakes.  It seems like WOTC has forgotten how bad overpowered cards affect the game (like with affinity) or how an overpowered card can screw up the metagame (like when the Jitte came out).  At least with the Jitte, anyone could buy a Rat's Nest deck at walmart and get one.  Now, we are stuck dealing with WOTC's bad decisions; especially harsh since when they produce overpowered cards, players who want to be even marginally competitive have to purchase said cards.  Totally unnacceptable.

5. While I do realize doomsday preaching may be premature, it is very hard to see how what is essentially a Power 9 card being printed in today's format won't be overpowered.  While Mox Opal is similar, its reliance on metalcraft is a much bigger drawback than the miracle mechanic.

If Temporal Mastery proves overpowered, it will be because of the "love tempo / hate real control" attitude of recent years.  Consider the card in a Lorwyn/Alara era 5c control: card draw decreases the odds of Miracle casting and lack of creatures means a Timewalk wouldn't do much more than cycle anyway.

However, entering the land of Delvers and Invisible Stalkers (or to be fair, Faeries of that previous time) it's huge.  Some of these Mutagenic Growth plans are silly, and Ponder at best gets you the card 2 turns sooner (same as it does for any other card).  But it doesn't even need help when you can just throw it in a tempo deck and be perfectly happy off the top.

Apr 9, 2012 -- 9:58AM, amobo wrote:

First of all, sorry for my English.

I respect your opinions, and I love to read them, and I agree with a lot of the posts. However, it's untolerable how some people says that Wizards is crazy to print Temporal Mastery and that it will be banned soon, only five minutes after knowing the card. Wizards has been testing this set, and more concretely this card, to avoid things like a color unbalance and a Standard brokeness, so the designers and the developers know a lot more than us about the card.

Of course, they can be wrong. Maybe you're right, and the card is completely broken. But maybe you're not. Express yourself without any fear, but don't say Wizards is crazy or other things without basis.

Another thing I'd like to comment is that there's a difference between a topdecked Time Walk and a topdecked Temporal Mastery. You can cast a Time Walk (topdecked or not) as early as your second turn, but Temporal Mastery "only" as early as your third turn, and if you're lucky enough to draw it at the exact moment.  It is a dead card if you have it in your opening hand, because no deck other than a strong control deck can allow to cast a 7 mana spell (and if you don't believe me, ask to Karn Liberated). Even if you can hard-cast it, it's not as game breaking as Elesh Norn. As well, the "exile after use" is more important than it might seem, because otherwise Noxious Revival would be too powerful combined with this, as many of you have said.Well, I'm trying to say that, in my opinion, the card is format defining, but not broken.

I can't wait, it seems so fun to play with. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be very, very expensive...

I think people have a legit reason to worry Wizards misunderstood the balance issues here.

If I remember correctly, there was an AF interview where he talked about them not understanding how good Delver/Inivisibile Stalker is. See also MJF's recent article on how Delver may be the best deck in standard right now.

This card seems custom made for Delver. So I don't think it's unreasonable to worry that this might break standard, or at least make for an unfun format with much less diversity.

There's also the problem of increased variance regardles of power level. If I were to build a deck tomorrow, for standard with AR it would be probably be Delver with 4 TM. I don't think 4 is right number for the best deck. But I'm bad at magic right now. I would expect to end up middle of the pack of a PTQ, and not T8ing. So 4 TM is probaly the best number for me, because it gives me the chance to get lucky, not draw it in my starting hand, and win, and I can still mulligain it away even if I do draw it. And if not, I probably wouldn't have T8ed anyway.

I don't think my opponents will enjoy getting blown out by a lucky sequence of TM draws, by a player with a deck with an objectively worse EV, who is herself probably objectively worse. And I won't take much joy in winning with TM god draws, because its not like I'll have won on the back of some clever play. I think TM will make the games less fun for both of us even if I win more.

I know MaRo likes to say some randomness is a feature and not a bug, because it's good to give us players who aren't that great some chance, but I think this may cross the line. That said, I'll be surprised if I'm not packing 4 TM at the next PTQ regardless of format.

In non-modern eternal formats, it even pitches to FoW, so 4 probably is the right number there at least, so at least no randomness advantage there.

If Temporal Mastery becomes a thing, which it probably will considering Ponder/Preordain etc. exist, just mainboard/ sideboard some Thought Scour s. Then they can Snapcaster Mage it for nine mana. Which is fine by me.

Apr 13, 2012 -- 9:30AM, pedrodyl wrote:

If Temporal Mastery becomes a thing, which it probably will considering Ponder/Preordain etc. exist, just mainboard/ sideboard some Thought Scour s. Then they can Snapcaster Mage it for nine mana. Which is fine by me.

Thought Scour doesn't hose Temporal Mastery except to the extent that it already hoses library manipulation.  By the time Temporal Mastery is revealed, it's too late to mill it with Thought Scour , and randomly casting Thought Scour has no net effect on your opponent's chances to draw Temporal Mastery.

Apr 14, 2012 -- 3:37PM, goblinrecruiter wrote:

Apr 13, 2012 -- 9:30AM, pedrodyl wrote:

If Temporal Mastery becomes a thing, which it probably will considering Ponder/Preordain etc. exist, just mainboard/ sideboard some Thought Scour s. Then they can Snapcaster Mage it for nine mana. Which is fine by me.

Thought Scour doesn't hose Temporal Mastery except to the extent that it already hoses library manipulation.  By the time Temporal Mastery is revealed, it's too late to mill it with Thought Scour , and randomly casting Thought Scour has no net effect on your opponent's chances to draw Temporal Mastery.

What I meant to say was that if you suspect your opponent(s) is playing Temporal Mastery, or if it's second game and you know they do and you have sideboarded, Thought Scour can be a good answer to it the turn after they Ponder or Brainstorm or whatever.