Community

Apr 2, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Morfimir wrote:

So if  momentary blink was used on a Fiend Hunter while the opponent's creature was returning to play you could use sundial of the infinite to exile the creature but it would not allow Field Hunter to exile a new target?

If I'm understanding that right then Flickerwisp would be a much better choice for permanent exiling. 

Permanents changing zones are always new permanents. As momentary blink resolves on your fiend hunter 2 triggered abilities get added to the stack. The come into play ability of the fiend hunter and the leave play ability of the fiend hunter. They happen at exactly the same time (as part of the resolution of the momentary blink), when 2 things happen at exactly the same time the owner of the triggers orders them on the stack how he wants to and then they resolve in last in first out order. Each item resolving on the stack allows priority for both parties before each does so.

Since you control both abilities of the fiend hunter you get to order them. I suggest you order them as,
1)When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
2)When Fiend Hunter enters the battlefield, you may exile another target creature.

Then you let the top item resolve and exile a new creature. The stack is now
1)When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
and you have priority.

This is when you activate the sundial. Then the stack looks like,
1)When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.
2)End the turn

You let the end the turn item on the stack resolve and as part of that resolution it  exiles the stack. Which removes item one forever.

This is only one example of the stack being used to get around certain come back into play abilities. The other common example is say oblivion ring and capsize .

Summon oblivion ring and as it enter the battlefield it has a triggered ability that gets added to the stack.
1)When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent.

While that item is on the stack but before it resolves cast capsize on your ring. Stack is then,
1) When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent.
2) Return target permanent to its owner's hand. (targetting the oblivion ring)

Now what happens is that as the cpasize resolves another triggered ability of the o-ring goes on the stack,
1) When Oblivion Ring enters the battlefield, exile another target nonland permanent.
2) When Oblivion Ring leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under its owner's control.

Now you see that this is backwards since the leaves play trigger will resolve before the exile trigger will. Nothing has left play yet when the leaves play trigger resolves which means nothing comes back, and then as the first resolves something goes to exile forever.

Flickerwisp is not an instant most of the time. It can certainly be made an instant with certain other cards but using it to bounce is a bit trickier. leyline of anticipation or winding canyons would do it. It can certainly be used as the instigator of an original bounce though just as venser is.

Apr 3, 2012 -- 6:29AM, AVHer wrote:

Apr 2, 2012 -- 5:18PM, Elfears wrote:

I'm not sure you quite understand what Skeindubh is saying, simply bouncing your own fiend hunter will not result in a permanent exile, as it will still have left the battlefield, returning the creature. What the dial does is end the stack, negating any effects yet to trigger, so for example: You play fiend hunter (exiling a creature), bounce it with venser and then trigger the dial, resulting in the stack instantly ending and thus the exiled creature not returning.  

Sigh. Yes it will.  If I cast a Fiend Hunter and cast a Saving Grasp and return it to my hand before its first ability resolves, it's second ability would resolve before the first, resulting in a permanent exile of an opponent’s creature and I get to recast my Fiend Hunter later on.  I understand how the sundial works.

Fiend Hunter Enters The Battlefield

Stack:
ETB Ability

In response I cast Saving Grasp .

Stack:
Saving Grasp
ETB Ability

Fiend Hunter Leaves The Battlefield.

Stack:
LTB Ability
ETB Ability

The LTB resolves first resulting in no creatures returning to the battlefield and the ETB then resolves leaving a creature in permanent exile.

Click Display Rulings.
gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details....

ADD:  I see what everyone is saying about the sundial.  I'll probably use the one I have, but the issue is that when I get Venser out, preferably on the 5th-6th turn, I'm usually using his +2 ability on my own creatures, not the other way around.  I'm focusing on my creatures ETB abilities most of the time.  Of course there will be times where I will want to permanently exile my opponent’s creature which is why I’ll throw that good old sundial in there.

(To answer your original question) So your Sphinx and Wurmcoil Engine aren't enough to finish off your opponent? What about spirit mantle or Angelic Destiny as a win card?

Nevermaker plus Angelic Destiny sounds pretty good to me, that's a 6/7 first strike flyer that just got done putting your opponent's permanents on top of his library.

(maybe you shouldn't take advice from me, your exile deck is much farther along than mine.)

 

I'm currently also looking for creatures that deal direct damage to target creatures or players as they enter the battlefield; preferably an artifact creature. I'd like not to add any colors to the deck either.  I am using three Pierce Strider s but I'm just wondering if there were any others I might not be remembering.

Apr 6, 2012 -- 3:52PM, skeindubh wrote:

Most of the best enter the battlefield damage creatures are red. My favorite is murderous redcap . Kinda hard to fit them into a blue/white venser deck. contagion clasp works ok as a bounce target contagion engine is even better since it does not target. mortarpod lets you do one damage when you sac the germ, then you can bounce to reset it.

Contagion Clasp would be nice with permanent bouncing.  The problem is most of my bouncing spells only bounce creatures; with the exception of Momentary Blink and Venser, the Sojourner of course.  I'm going to try to work more removal cards that target permanents instead of just creatures though.  I hope to add a fourth Venser, 3 Momentary Blinks and maybe some Dream Stalker s to replace my Man-O-War s; in which case Contagion Clasp and Mortarpod would rule.