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Switch to Forum Live View 03/28/2012 StF: "Thanks and So Long"
1 year ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 4:33PM #21
Iron_Golem01
Date Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 23
Doug,
Thank you so much for your work over the past years.  Yours was the only column I made sure to read every week.  I'm relieved to see you are going to be finishing things up for Avacyn Restored. 

And I know a lot of people seemed to dislike "Alara Unbroken," but I thought it was pretty darn good.  The way you had characters do things in the book that more or less were tied to their cards?  AWESOME.  

Thanks again, and please(!) keep up the good work keeping flavor alive.  

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 9:10PM #22
HavelockVetinari
Date Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 80

Mar 27, 2012 -- 11:56PM, willpell wrote:

If they wanted a good writer, they could find one easily enough - me, for example.  But they don't want (or at least don't just want) someone who writes well - they want someone who writes what they're told, writes glad-handing syrupy stuff that will drive sales and further the The Company Cannot Fail image they are determined to create.  They will never hire me again because I am not an obedient corporate shill.  They don't lack for good writers; they lack for obedient corporate shills.


It's pretty astonishing to me that they haven't already rehired you.  You seem like a real team player: modest, respectful of others' opinions, and thoughtful in your criticism.


Goblin Artisans
a Magic: the Gathering design blog
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:26PM #23
Esc7
Date Joined: Jun 14, 2010
Posts: 25
Doug,

Your column was the best.  THE BEST.  Better than MaRo's.  My absolute #1 favorite.  It was the thing bringing me back to MTG Daily.

----------

Will Pell, that's probably the most astonishingly unprofessional thing I've ever seen someone write.  Show that to anyone and I wouldn't be surprised if they  resolved to never hire you.  I hope you aren't as angry and obsessed as your post makes you seem, and if you are I hope in time you'll let it go.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:26PM #24
Guest872980744
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2010
Posts: 26
Doug,

Not replacing you for savor the flavor would imply that the others suck at writing. you know what?  you're totally right, dude.

At least you know when to stop when the brain juices ain't flowing...   that's the hallmark of great writers, and a clear distinction from the leeches. 

you could at least coach flores and bdm how to write.  if not, they should retire. 
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 11:18PM #25
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,834

Mar 28, 2012 -- 1:44PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

You act like Wizards wanting to increase sales is a bad thing. If Wizards wants to increase sales, that means that they want to improve their products, so more people will buy them.




They drive sales by reducing the quality of their product so that it may be sold to the lowest common denominator.  Wizards is only interested in paying the bills and earning a profit for Hasbro, a typical example of the small-minded, short-term thinking that powers capitalism, and exactly why capitalism is completely inviable in the grand scheme of things.  Wotco wants to make sure people keep buying and playing Magic for the next ten years.  I want to make sure people keep telling the story of how Karn the silver golem surpassed his creator Urza's intentions and became the first artificial planeswalker, for the next ten thousand years, because it is (or at least could be) that good of a story.  If you owned the copyright on Beowulf or the Epic of Gilgamesh and went about dumbing it down so you could sell cheaply-made commemorative paintings of the characters to people who will grow up and forget about them, you would be doing much the same as Wizards is doing today.  The products are dust on the winds of history; the ideas that they contain can change civilization forever, and the best way to make that happen is to treat them with all the reverence of a religion's holy text or a culture's epic sagas.

One of the best decisions Wizards ever made after purchasing Dungeons and Dragons was the Open Gaming License, and they're still kicking themselves for it.  Thanks to the OGL, people who love D&D will have an amazing resource (the d20 SRD) to keep playing D&D long after Wizards closes its doors, as long as the Internet is still around.  Intellectual property withers when its' locked up in a closet and held for ransom; it flourishes when it is shouted to the far hills by those who genuinely love it and want to help it spread and grow.  Acts like the publication of the OGL are little short of miracles, and the same is true of writing a truly great story; both are ways to enrich the ideological heritage of the human race and quantifiably make life better on a scale that commerce can never even begin to measure up to.  The canon of Magic's multiverse, and the concept of the color pie which underpins it, is a mythological treasure which is not being treated with a tenth of the reverence it deserves.

How could writing about the setting of the next block allow you to comment on the business practices of the company? What kind of flavour text could you write that would imply Wizards is going to fail?




If by some miracle I obtained a free hand to write for Wizards, I would entirely ignore its status as a business, and write tales of flavor that would make the multiverse come alive for the people who truly need it to do so.  As I alluded to before, people who play Magic because it's a fun game will eventually grow out of it; it isn't important enough to them, and so I don't think it should be targeted to them.  I want to add value to it for the benefit of people who NEED it, people whose lives it has changed (such as myself, and AlexaM, and Matt Cavotta, and hundreds of others, as opposed to millions of bored teenagers with allowance money to burn which are more interesting to the company).

What I definitely would not do, for any reason, is allow this column to go unwritten for even a single week.  Nothing short of being smeared into paste by a tractor-trailer truck would stop me from continuing to feed and grow the saga of Dominaria, until it seemed a more real place than the far side of the Earth.  I have always believed that the quality of a product is its absolute value, and that nothing else matters but doing the absolute best job imaginable, even if you kill yourself in the process.  A creation crafted with enough love and pride is a thing of legend; it can outlive nations, like the Pyramids or the legend of Robin Hood or the concept of a life after death.  Humanity deserves nothing less.

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2012 - 2:17AM #26
Vestige
Date Joined: Dec 10, 2007
Posts: 82
willpell, you're the most obnoxious person ever (also hahaha tie-in storyline to a card game = the epic of gilgamesh). Love, everyone.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2012 - 6:09AM #27
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,834
No doubt the Romans regarded Jesus as obnoxious, or the Klansmen of the early 60s did Martin Luther King.  Innovators and reformers must always be willing to bloody the nose of the villains who profit from the current quagmire.  The evil of our society is small-minded capitalism, and I will not apologize for speaking bluntly in condemnation of it.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2012 - 10:38AM #28
Kaato
Date Joined: Dec 13, 2008
Posts: 4

Mar 29, 2012 -- 6:09AM, willpell wrote:

No doubt the Romans regarded Jesus as obnoxious, or the Klansmen of the early 60s did Martin Luther King.  Innovators and reformers must always be willing to bloody the nose of the villains who profit from the current quagmire.  The evil of our society is small-minded capitalism, and I will not apologize for speaking bluntly in condemnation of it.




Drawing parallels between yourself and two legendary men that perished at a young age for their beliefs is not only insulting in its condescension
 - it's borderline megalomanic.  Wizards would be out of their gourd to give you a weekly column, and even then it would likely be called "Illusions of Grandeur" and would be an object lesson in effete ranting.  

Anyway: thanks for the good run Doug, and we'll all look forward to seeing more great things from you from behind the scenes.   

 

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2012 - 11:00AM #29
Iron_Golem01
Date Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 23
willpell might have some... issues (no offense dude), but it doesn't mean he's wrong.   MTG does get boring after 3 or 4 years if there's not some flavor to keep you (me) coming back.  (I've been playing for 9 years.)   I know the fantasy/flavor part can't be the main focus, and WOTC has to make some money....   But they have such a rich flavor history that can be used to keep the hooks in new players (once they've landed them with Xbox or whatever gimic).   Take, for instance, the big planeswalker poster from last summer.  Sure, all those dudes look cool.  But when you know some story and history about each of them, it draws you in so much more.   It keeps me coming back for more and spending more.  It allows me to explain to new players, or parents of my HS students that no, this isn't just a card game, it's a fantasy universe (multi-verse).  It's as much a part of my reality as Star Wars, LOTR, or Star Trek. 
And yeah, I know some of you don't care at all about the fantasy aspect of the game, but some of us do.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2012 - 2:57PM #30
chronego
Date Joined: Jul 6, 2011
Posts: 1,279

Mar 28, 2012 -- 11:18PM, willpell wrote:

They drive sales by reducing the quality of their product so that it may be sold to the lowest common denominator.


How do you figure? They're not reducing the quality of the game at all; they're just designing for a different game today than they were in the past: Limited, while still giving Constructed players cool stuff, just typically at higher rarities.

Wizards is only interested in paying the bills and earning a profit for Hasbro, a typical example of the small-minded, short-term thinking that powers capitalism, and exactly why capitalism is completely inviable in the grand scheme of things.


Wizards of the Coast is interested in making money, which is required to keep the game alive. If they stop making a profit, the game disappears, and then all that flavor you love so much ceases to exist as well. If what Wizards wanted to do was tell a story, they'd be writing novels or making movies. Instead, they're making a game, and that means that first and foremost in their minds is making sure that the game plays well, and makes money; flavor is a tertiary goal to those two, though they are all interlinked.

Wotco wants to make sure people keep buying and playing Magic for the next ten years.  I want to make sure people keep telling the story of how Karn the silver golem surpassed his creator Urza's intentions and became the first artificial planeswalker, for the next ten thousand years, because it is (or at least could be) that good of a story.


Wizards wants to make sure that the game continues to exist (and thus be able to tell stories) indefinitely. Sure, the stories might not be as polished as those told by an author of novels, or a filmmaker, but that's because the platform they use to tell them isn't designed to tell stories. The fact that they manage to tell the stories they do tell at all is impressive.

If you owned the copyright on Beowulf or the Epic of Gilgamesh and went about dumbing it down so you could sell cheaply-made commemorative paintings of the characters to people who will grow up and forget about them, you would be doing much the same as Wizards is doing today.  The products are dust on the winds of history; the ideas that they contain can change civilization forever, and the best way to make that happen is to treat them with all the reverence of a religion's holy text or a culture's epic sagas.


You can't compare a one-and-done medium like novels to a continuing medium like a trading card game. Once the novel's done, you no longer have to worry about continuing to turn a profit lest you then lose the story that novel told.

The canon of Magic's multiverse, and the concept of the color pie which underpins it, is a mythological treasure which is not being treated with a tenth of the reverence it deserves.


It is treated with exactly the reverence it deserves. The flavor is just one part of the whole; if you focus exclusively on the flavor, ignoring the gameplay and the marketing, then the whole thing collapses.

If by some miracle I obtained a free hand to write for Wizards, I would entirely ignore its status as a business, and write tales of flavor that would make the multiverse come alive for the people who truly need it to do so.


Which is exactly what Savor the Flavor did. I don't recall seeing Doug Beyer continuously ramble on about "The relative value of this card as compared to other means of entertainment of similar price is much higher, so you should buy more cards" or any such marketing talk. No, he, and those who guest wrote, gave us things like "The flavor of combat is this!" and the Planeswalker's Guides which built a rich world, or the short stories that focused on characters who would never even appear in the card game, like the young woman in cathar training. How is any of that not writing tales of flavor that make the multiverse come alive?
Doug did a great job, and he deserves to be praised, not attacked moments after announcing what was probably the hardest decision he's had to make in a long while.

As I alluded to before, people who play Magic because it's a fun game will eventually grow out of it; it isn't important enough to them, and so I don't think it should be targeted to them.  I want to add value to it for the benefit of people who NEED it, people whose lives it has changed (such as myself, and AlexaM, and Matt Cavotta, and hundreds of others, as opposed to millions of bored teenagers with allowance money to burn which are more interesting to the company).


Hey, more power to you if you want to take the burden of all the money that those millions of bored teenagers spent on Magic all upon yourself.

What I definitely would not do, for any reason, is allow this column to go unwritten for even a single week.  Nothing short of being smeared into paste by a tractor-trailer truck would stop me from continuing to feed and grow the saga of Dominaria, until it seemed a more real place than the far side of the Earth.  I have always believed that the quality of a product is its absolute value, and that nothing else matters but doing the absolute best job imaginable, even if you kill yourself in the process.  A creation crafted with enough love and pride is a thing of legend; it can outlive nations, like the Pyramids or the legend of Robin Hood or the concept of a life after death.  Humanity deserves nothing less.


I don't know if this is an attack on Doug Beyer, or on Wizards of the Coast. It sounds like you're attacking Doug Beyer for thinking that working on actually crafting the flavor of the game is more important than a weekly column, but that contradicts your entire point about wanting the game's flavor to be made as good as it can possibly be. Doug knows that the game's flavor would suffer as long as he continued to take effort away from maximizing it, so he stepped down. I have to laud him for that, as it can't have been easy to give up on something into which he's poured so much time and effort over the years.
If you're attacking Wizards of the Coast, then you need to realize that they didn't have a choice. Doug stepped down, and there was no one set to take his place. It's not like they sat down and said "You know what, let's just dump that flavor column, because it's not pulling its weight." If they had any way to keep the column going, they would do so immediately.

TL;DR: Willpell, if you had your way, the game would die and then nobody would be happy.

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