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Switch to Forum Live View March 20th MTR Discussion
1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 12:43AM #1
zammm
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2003
Posts: 27,266
The latest edition of the MTR has been released! It's available here. The changes of interest are:
  • A new Play/Draw rule for playoffs in 'Premier Tournaments': The player who did better in the Swiss portion chooses whether to play or draw for the first game of the match. This rule can also be used in other tournaments as long as it's announced beforehand.

  • Players may no longer reference notes while deckbuilding.

  • Players may refer to Oracle text at any time; however, they must do so publicly and from a source that contains no other strategic information. If they want to look at the Oracle text privately, they need to ask a Judge.

  • Players are explicitly permitted (unless the HJ says otherwise) to use electronic devices to keep track of life totals, make or read notes, generate random numbers, and briefly answer personal calls not related to the game, if the opponent okays it. (Accessing strategic information or getting outside assistance is still verboten, natch.) Taking too long in doing so may be considered Slow Play.

  • There's now a section codifying rules for life totals, saying that players need to announce how they're going to keep track of life, that it must be visible to both players, and that players should announce their new life total when it changes. Failure to point out a discrepancy as soon as it's noticed is explicitly defined as Cheating--Fraud.

  • Free Information has been expanded to include the type of any counter in a public zone.


I like the updating of the Electronic Devices section, as it reflects standard player usage much, much better than the MTR previously did. I especially like allowing free access to Oracle, though my initial instinct is to argue that that doesn't go far enough and that the CR and MTR should also be permitted, as those are also official resources players might find useful during play and should have access to. (The IPG/JAR are also arguably official resources, but there's much less reason for players to legitimately need information from those during a tournament.)
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 1:51PM #2
PirateAmmo
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2010
Posts: 2,167
I think it should be clarified what the proper way to use an electronic device for notes is.

It says players may use electronic devices to take notes as outlined in section 2.11. Section 2.11 says that at the beginning of a match, each player's note sheet must be empty. I do not see how that would be possible with a phone.

When someone uses a phone, they are likely going to hold it with the screen facing themselves, and their opponent will not be able to see what they are doing. It is not clear if this is allowed, and it makes it too easy to look at outside notes or get help from the internet or text messages.

I do not understand why it is explicitly allowed that you can answer you phone during a match. They should try to discourage that behavior. At Competetive and Professional events it should be forbidden.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 2:48PM #3
Skibo_the_first
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Mar 26, 2012 -- 1:51PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

When someone uses a phone, they are likely going to hold it with the screen facing themselves, and their opponent will not be able to see what they are doing. It is not clear if this is allowed, and it makes it too easy to look at outside notes or get help from the internet or text messages.

I do not understand why it is explicitly allowed that you can answer you phone during a match. They should try to discourage that behavior. At Competetive and Professional events it should be forbidden.




You keep the phone on the table in plain sight to everyone. Problem solved.

… and then, the squirrels came.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 4:04PM #4
PirateAmmo
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2010
Posts: 2,167

Mar 26, 2012 -- 2:48PM, Skibo_the_first wrote:

You keep the phone on the table in plain sight to everyone. Problem solved.


I think that is a good solution. It should be clarified in the MTR, because right now, it says players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 4:17PM #5
Skibo_the_first
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Mar 26, 2012 -- 4:04PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

Mar 26, 2012 -- 2:48PM, Skibo_the_first wrote:

You keep the phone on the table in plain sight to everyone. Problem solved.


I think that is a good solution. It should be clarified in the MTR, because right now, it says players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players.




You've never been able to secrely refer to notes, I mean if I keep my notpad in my pocket and don't show it to my opponent then they can't be sure i'm not switching between outside notes.

… and then, the squirrels came.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 4:58PM #6
PirateAmmo
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2010
Posts: 2,167

Mar 26, 2012 -- 4:17PM, Skibo_the_first wrote:

You've never been able to secrely refer to notes, I mean if I keep my notpad in my pocket and don't show it to my opponent then they can't be sure i'm not switching between outside notes.


You are not allowed to have the notepad below the table, but you are allowed to write on the notepad with the paper facing away from your opponent, so they cannot see what your are writing or reading, and you are allowed to then cover the notepad, so they have no idea what you did at all.

The MTR does not say if the same rules apply to a phone. If you can do that with a phone, it becomes easy to cheat.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 5:53PM #7
WotC_MattT
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Mar 26, 2012 -- 1:51PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

I think it should be clarified what the proper way to use an electronic device for notes is.

It says players may use electronic devices to take notes as outlined in section 2.11. Section 2.11 says that at the beginning of a match, each player's note sheet must be empty. I do not see how that would be possible with a phone.

When someone uses a phone, they are likely going to hold it with the screen facing themselves, and their opponent will not be able to see what they are doing. It is not clear if this is allowed, and it makes it too easy to look at outside notes or get help from the internet or text messages.

I do not understand why it is explicitly allowed that you can answer you phone during a match. They should try to discourage that behavior. At Competetive and Professional events it should be forbidden.




Although I'm not directly responsible for these rules, having been a judge for a very long time, I will say this: Life happens. Emergencies happen. Let people answer the phone.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 6:28PM #8
Skibo_the_first
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There has to be some amount of common sense when applying rules.

You can stop them from using thier phone if you want, or you can call a judge over if you think they are refering to outside notes.
… and then, the squirrels came.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 26, 2012 - 11:15PM #9
Kedar
Date Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 6,209

Mar 26, 2012 -- 4:58PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

Mar 26, 2012 -- 4:17PM, Skibo_the_first wrote:

You've never been able to secrely refer to notes, I mean if I keep my notpad in my pocket and don't show it to my opponent then they can't be sure i'm not switching between outside notes.


You are not allowed to have the notepad below the table, but you are allowed to write on the notepad with the paper facing away from your opponent, so they cannot see what your are writing or reading, and you are allowed to then cover the notepad, so they have no idea what you did at all.

The MTR does not say if the same rules apply to a phone. If you can do that with a phone, it becomes easy to cheat.




If you always assume people are going to cheat, you are never going to enjoy the game.

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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2012 - 2:39AM #10
zammm
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2003
Posts: 27,266

Mar 26, 2012 -- 1:51PM, PirateAmmo wrote:

I do not understand why it is explicitly allowed that you can answer you phone during a match. They should try to discourage that behavior. At Competetive and Professional events it should be forbidden.


Basically, what Matt said. The chances of people using something so noticeable as a phone call (or text message) to cheat when they could be doing something way more subtle and effective isn't worth the poor customer service of interfering with important communication.

Sure, answering a phone (or heaven forbid, calling someone) during a game just to chat is rude as heck, but that's what Slow Play warnings are for.

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Knowledge knows no bounds.
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And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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