Community

 
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
Switch to Forum Live View 03/21/2012 StF: "The Guardian, the Witch, and the Angel"
1 year ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 9:57PM #11
toaxurd
Date Joined: Jan 7, 2012
Posts: 4
Guys,

If demons can't be killed, how come Liliana is out hunting them? Doesn't she know better? And how has she already killed one (Kothophed)? Am I missing something?

Somebody please respond. Thanks. 
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 10:04PM #12
CommanderJim
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 2,399

Mar 21, 2012 -- 9:57PM, toaxurd wrote:

Guys,

If demons can't be killed, how come Liliana is out hunting them? Doesn't she know better? And how has she already killed one (Kothophed)? Am I missing something?

Somebody please respond. Thanks. 



Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 10:24PM #13
toaxurd
Date Joined: Jan 7, 2012
Posts: 4

Mar 21, 2012 -- 10:04PM, CommanderJim wrote:


Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.




That's not it. This is a quote from the planeswalker's guide to Innistrad:


The Silver Collar


At first Avacyn ignored this new threat, but as the demons amassed power, she knew she would have to destroy them. One by one she would engage them in battle and defeat them. But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter. It soon became apparent that the demons could be killed but would return in a different form, since they were beings created of pure mana. Realizing this, Avacyn decreed that "What cannot be destroyed will be bound," and thus her symbol became a silver collar, which was to be symbolically forged shut around the necks of all demonkind.



See? It says here that "demons could not be killed." So this is what I was asking about before. As before, please respond. Thanks.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:30PM #14
chronego
Date Joined: Jul 6, 2011
Posts: 1,281

Mar 21, 2012 -- 10:24PM, toaxurd wrote:

Mar 21, 2012 -- 10:04PM, CommanderJim wrote:


Are you referring to the Avacyn using the Helvault because she couldn't kill certain demons? I think what's going on here is just that Avacyn isn't powerful enough to kill these demons, but they can be killed, and Liliana is either powerful enough or just clever enough to kill them. (Perhaps the Veil is what gives her enough power to kill demons.)

I'm not a huge storyline buff, but that's my best answer for your question. Maybe someone else could clarify, was it the Veil that made Liliana powerful enough to kill Kothophed? I might look back at that comic myself.




That's not it. This is a quote from the planeswalker's guide to Innistrad:


The Silver Collar


At first Avacyn ignored this new threat, but as the demons amassed power, she knew she would have to destroy them. One by one she would engage them in battle and defeat them. But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter. It soon became apparent that the demons could be killed but would return in a different form, since they were beings created of pure mana. Realizing this, Avacyn decreed that "What cannot be destroyed will be bound," and thus her symbol became a silver collar, which was to be symbolically forged shut around the necks of all demonkind.



See? It says here that "demons could not be killed." So this is what I was asking about before. As before, please respond. Thanks.


I believe the key is the sentence "But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter."
The reason Avacyn binds demons is because she cares about there being one less demon free in the world. Liliana only cares about killing a specific demon, Griselbrand. She doesn't care if the mana that created Griselbrand then reforms into a new demon, because that new demon didn't sign the contract with her, Griselbrand did.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:38PM #15
CommanderJim
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 2,399
So basically, all the demons are like commanders (in the commander format) and Avacyn realized it was better to Arrest them than to actually destroy them. (Sadly, the actual Helvault card doesn't work very well for this analogy.) 
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 22, 2012 - 7:13AM #16
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,308

Geralf and Gisa, that sibling team of zombie masters, unleashed their life's greatest achievement: a vast horde of necromantic ghouls and necro-alchemical skaabs. They besieged the city of Thraben with their ghoulish army, each hoping to outdo the other in their mad sibling rivalry, sending waves of unhallowed creatures at the holy city.




I still loathe this part of the story. It's just silly. It's not scary and takes me completely out of the horror immersion.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 22, 2012 - 7:24AM #17
MarkXero
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Posts: 159

Mar 21, 2012 -- 11:30PM, chronego wrote:

I believe the key is the sentence "But each time she did, a new demon would appear shortly thereafter."
The reason Avacyn binds demons is because she cares about there being one less demon free in the world. Liliana only cares about killing a specific demon, Griselbrand. She doesn't care if the mana that created Griselbrand then reforms into a new demon, because that new demon didn't sign the contract with her, Griselbrand did.




Exactly this. Avacyn realised she couldn't rid Innistrad of demons altogether - she could kill individual ones, but new ones just appeared in their place. All Liliana is interested in is killing Griselbrand. If the black mana that he's made by reforms into a different demon, what does she care?

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 3:52AM #18
darcness228
Date Joined: Feb 11, 2011
Posts: 12
I really have to put my money on Thalia opening the Helvault.  They even eluded to it in the article.  When they talked of her "possibly" being able to open it, but chosing to keep it in tact "for now" that's immediately what I thought about.  I definitely think that she is going to realize that she can't fix/defeat/whatever all the chaos that's going on, she will do the only thing she feels she can, and release the contents of the Helvault.  What other option does she really have?  She's got one walker who wants in (Liliana), another who wants to kill the aforementioned (Garruk), and yet another who just wants to figure out what's going on with this whole mess (Sorin).  Honestly what other choice does she have?  I say drastic times lead to drastic measures.  Even if Liliana some how convinces her to do it, I'm betting it will be Thalia.

This whole story has been pretty amazing.  I can't WAIT for the previews to start coming out.  Love every last line of this whole block's flavor.  Huge Kudo's for making me love the story line of magic again for the first time in MANY years.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 10:46AM #19
CommanderJim
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 2,399

Mar 23, 2012 -- 3:52AM, darcness228 wrote:

I really have to put my money on Thalia opening the Helvault.  They even eluded to it in the article.  When they talked of her "possibly" being able to open it, but chosing to keep it in tact "for now" that's immediately what I thought about.  I definitely think that she is going to realize that she can't fix/defeat/whatever all the chaos that's going on, she will do the only thing she feels she can, and release the contents of the Helvault.  What other option does she really have?  She's got one walker who wants in (Liliana), another who wants to kill the aforementioned (Garruk), and yet another who just wants to figure out what's going on with this whole mess (Sorin).  Honestly what other choice does she have?  I say drastic times lead to drastic measures.  Even if Liliana some how convinces her to do it, I'm betting it will be Thalia.

This whole story has been pretty amazing.  I can't WAIT for the previews to start coming out.  Love every last line of this whole block's flavor.  Huge Kudo's for making me love the story line of magic again for the first time in MANY years.



The promo video pretty much confirms your prediction, though it still leaves a lot of details unclear.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 09, 2012 - 3:43PM #20
Half_Vampire_Lyle
Date Joined: Oct 9, 2001
Posts: 3
Wait a sec, and where the hell is Sorin in all the story? what did he do? I was expecting a lot from him!
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 2  •  Prev 1 2
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing