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Feb 20, 2012 -- 7:35AM, Amarsir wrote:

The subject of a joke is rarely the crux of the joke.  To wit, "the world's funniest joke"

Two hunters are out in the woods when one of them collapses. He doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. The other guy whips out his phone and calls the emergency services. He gasps, "My friend is dead! What can I do?" The operator says "Calm down. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead." There is a silence, then a gun shot is heard. Back on the phone, the guy says "OK, now what?"

"Haha murder", right?  No, the humor is misunderstanding the meaning of "make sure" in a way no one ever would.

The joke in MaRo's article is on personification.  Silly anthropomorphized mechanic didn't realize how he works.  You're not supposed to laugh at unfortunate events, but at the juxtaposition of normally tragic in contrary context.  Most people get this innately, but quite willingly ignore it to go "boo!  Do you know how many farmers are killed every year pursuing runaway chickens across roadways?"

That said, if a subject is too touchy for a person it doesn't matter what the meaning is because the reference overrides the context. Reading this article I got a chuckle, but knew it would bother people because suicide is too touchy to throw around like that.  So either Mark decided that he liked it enough to go for it anyway (which is respectable), or he really doesn't know his audience.

I understand the point you are trying to make, I really do, but I think these are entirely different cases in that the focus of each joke is different.

In the joke you made, the focus isn't on the hunter killing their friend, but on the hunter misunderstanding the instruction. The joke ends with the killing not because "haha murder", but because that is one of the most dramatic ways to show that the hunter didn't get the message. We are laughing not at the fact that the hunter killed their friend, but at the fact that they didn't understand what was being required of them, a fact that the killing just helps to emphasize by being the most dramatic consequence of this misunderstanding.

When it comes to MaRo's joke, however, we are supposed to laugh at "haha, undying tried to kill itself but it didn't get that because lol undying get it" -- the suicide itself is at the center of the joke rather than being an incidental element, we are supposed to laugh at the fact of undying trying to kill itself and failing. This is treating suicide itself as a laughing matter (especially given the support group context and that all) and is rather tasteless of MaRo's part. I'm very disappointed at him and I really wish he doesn't do anything like this in the future.

Also -- not directed at Amarsir, just using the rest of this post --, can people please drop the "easily offended", "don't get humor", "wow you want to censor people's speech" or "spend more time on the internet" thing. Humor is a broad spectrum and restraining yourself to laughing at those in a weaker position than yours (such as oh I don't know people with issues troubling enough that lead them to kill themselves) is not only sad (in part because you are helping to perpetuate the same conditions that lead people to take these drastic decisions) but also goddamn lazy. Also, the Internet is a cesspool and the fact that this sort of thing is popular on it should be in itself a problem.

Feb 20, 2012 -- 1:34PM, Mata_Hari wrote:

The difference between making jokes about death/the weather and making a joke about suicide is that with suicide there is never not going to be a significant portion of the audience it affects deeply. There are certain contexts in which making jokes about death or the weather are in poor taste (such as in a funeral or a hurricane relief effort) but there are never going to be contexts in which making jokes about suicide is not in poor taste. I'll admit that there's not a great deal of difference in purely objective terms, but we're not working with objective terms here.

I realized this is a little flawed, so allow me to reclarify.

The difference between making a joke about suicide and a joke about the weather is that suicide is specific. Weather jokes could be about any aspect of the weather. Weather jokes in general are OK, but Hurricane Katrina jokes are not OK.

The difference between making a joke about suicide and a joke about death is the same: suicide is specific. If you hear about the death of an elderly person you've never met, you're not likely to be all that upset, even though there is a high chance of you having lost an elderly person in your life also. If you hear about a person's death by suicide, you're likely to be upset if you have known somebody who committed suicide. So in that sense making a joke that specifically relies on suicide to even be a joke is pretty crass.

Feb 20, 2012 -- 2:08PM, zammm wrote:

(Bolding mine) And right there is where the crux of our disagreement. I do believe there are contexts in which making jokes about suicide are not in poor taste. Humor is part of the manner in we as humans deal with life--even the worst, most tragic parts of it. Heck, often especially those parts. We cannot wall off such a significant part of the human experience and pretend it doesn't exist just because humor is the medium.

It is true that black humour is a important part of dealing with tricky subjects, but there is a difference between a person making a joke about something that they have personally experienced, and a person who's never experienced such a thing making a joke about the same. And even if MaRo has been privy to such a thing- which would be truly upsetting to hear- there's a time and a place for it, and a column about a collectable card game is not that.