Hello to all, I was trying to build a fun yet powerful weapon deck that fits the flavor of Gideon Jura himself. I think that I am close but I know it still need some tweaks, so all ideas and comments are appreciated! Here is the decklist:
I had some knight of the white orchid s included but they didn't seem to be as consistant for land purposes, although the first strike is nice! Also had some sunblast angel s for one sided board wipe with Gideon's +2 ability but didn't think that it would be better than the Titan's recursion. Dispense justice also seemed good but was situational. What do you all think about trusty machete s or any other equipment to have early consistency and bringing the battle to your opponent a la Gideon Jura. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and please any suggestion for adding, please recommend what to take out.
Okay after some digging through my older cards I have found some bonesplitter s which seem like they would be good for an early equip to either kitesail or the duelist but the question remains what should be removed or should they even be included over what I have. Also any ideas for draw or card advantage other than the paladins ?
I hope the deck isn't too old or bland that nobody has any opinions or ideas about a better or more efficient build. I am doing this deck now because I have just recently acquired a couple Gideons and wanted to build a deck in flavor of him. Thanks in advance for any comments or suggestions!
First, gideon's lawkeeper doesn't strike me as useful for control. You have better turn 1 plays, so you might want to rethink having these. OR, you might want to rethink the point of the deck so you can keep these, your call. (Basically, your deck looks to be fast, but these would only slow it down. On the contrary, if you build around the Gideon theme, then stuff like this would be good, because tapping is G-man's thing.)
Second, bonesplitter is one of my favorite equipment, and is an awesom turn 2 play/equip after a turn 1 kor duelist . I would definitely add some. Grafted wargear is another equipment I love. Those two, along with sunforger , are all of the equipment I use in my own equipment deck.
Third, your current decklist seems to have a random culmination of decent equipment stuff. Not only do you not have multiple copies of cards you should have, some of your card choices aren't optimal. For example, explorer's scope doesn't really do much for you. Knight of meadowgrain is an awesome critter to have equipped...if you can get past the goatiness. Stonehewer giant is completely awesome, kind of like an early version of stoneforge mystic . Skyhunter skirmisher is a favorite in my equipment deck, for obvious reasons. I personally like metalcraft creatures like auriok edgewright better than "equipment" creatures like kor duelist , mainly because they're more reliable, IMO.
I hope this helps, even a little!
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains . Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.Show
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.
One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion , hedron crab , and curse of the bloody tome , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.
Traumatize Rant. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.
If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.
There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind , to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!
Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
: Order, Law, Faith. : Knowledge, Artifice, Control. : Corruption, Death, Self-Interest. : Freedom, Destruction, Victory. : Nature, Growth, Life. : Progressive, but too controlling. : Focused, but short sighted. : Skilled, but hypocritical. : Unified, but without a sense of self. : Cunning, but devious. : Inquisitive, but incautious. : Rational, but impulsive. : Powerful, but spiteful. : Instinctive, but selfish. : Fearless, but reckless.
I forgot all about the grafted wargear (hell yeah to that one), I'm sure that I have some of in a box somewhere, plus they fall under the 3 mana theme I was kinda going with for the Titan . Thanks for the info Keino and I see where you are coming from. I guess I should explain some of my thinking for this deck strategy. First off, I was trying to keep the majority of the deck under 3 mana for the Sun Titan's recursion. To help with mana I originally had a couple of knight of the white orchid s in but went with the explorer's scope thinking it might work better plus its an artifact for the additional metalcraft theme that I have with my creatures, but your right it hasn't been that consistant. Do you think that the knights would be better, maybe in place of the lawkeeper's , that way I can stick the bonesplitter s in for the scopes. My main beaters are the mirran crusader s plus the etched champion s (once I hit metalcraft), not to mention argentum armor on anything. I have included all the different swords to give me the advantage against whatever color deck I am facing with the stoneforge mystic s tutor ability to pull them with some consistency. I have also tried to keep a decent number of equips in to trigger puresteel paladin s draw ability plus free equips! It was a toss up between the warhammer and the sword of vengeance being the same cost and all but ultimately I went with lifelink instead of first strike, haste and vigilance to get me out of behind situations. As you can see only a couple of instants, some for creature or threat removal and one for a pseudo trample to get through. Well I think that pretty much sums it up, how do you feel about my strategy? I knew it needed some tweaking, that is why I posted here; for the vast resource of knowledge and more experienced players thoughts (because I'm still kinda new at this).
Again thank you for the suggestions, duly noted. Trying to make the synergy as fun and seemlessly flowing as possible plus being able to handle a wide range of situations! Oh and the stonehewer giant s do seem awesome, I currently do not have any but may have to look into those!
Again thanks, I can use all the intuitive suggestions to help make the deck great!
First, your mana situation can be fixed by streamlining your deck a bit. I see that you have 2 Puresteel Paladin s, I believe that card is what makes equipment decks go crazy. If you can get 2 more, then your deck will play significantly better, guaranteed. Auriok steelshaper isn't really that great, though you might want to try playtesting with it to see if you like him.
Second, Loxodon warhammer is amazing, so I'd definitely keep that. I would just drop gideon's lawkeeper , don't put anything in its place. Bonesplitter or another 1 drop creature should be just fine. Also, dear god yes keep the swiftfoot boots ! Putting the boots on, say, puresteel paladin will ensure that you will have free equips and draw power.
Finally, I wouldn't get carried away with putting too many equipment in the deck. You only really need a few different kinds to get yourself in a good position, that's why I mentioned auriok edgewright earlier instead of kor duelist , because you can have other non-equipment artifacts to help metalcraft, whereas you NEED an equipment for the duelist, or any creature like it. Don't get me wrong, kor duelist is the best at what it does, and is worth it, just be careful. A good rule of thumb is to have 2 or 3 times the amount of creatures to equipment.
I would have: bonesplitter s loxodon warhammer s Your sword collection argentum armor and swiftfoot boots as all of your equipment. Maybe grafted wargear , it's up to you. Heck, you might even like it better than some of the other equipment. Anything more and you might get flooded with equipment and no creatures to equip.
Your early game is really where you'll shine. You might even want to rethink about putting big expensive stuff, like sun titan in the deck. You should proxy up the deck and playtest it a bit, just to see things like, "how long does it take me to win," or "which cards helped the most/least."
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains . Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.Show
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.
One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion , hedron crab , and curse of the bloody tome , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.
Traumatize Rant. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.
If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.
There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind , to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!
Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
: Order, Law, Faith. : Knowledge, Artifice, Control. : Corruption, Death, Self-Interest. : Freedom, Destruction, Victory. : Nature, Growth, Life. : Progressive, but too controlling. : Focused, but short sighted. : Skilled, but hypocritical. : Unified, but without a sense of self. : Cunning, but devious. : Inquisitive, but incautious. : Rational, but impulsive. : Powerful, but spiteful. : Instinctive, but selfish. : Fearless, but reckless.
Well I have never proxied a deck before so not sure how to exactly go about doing that. I have never really played in any tournaments or MTG events, so I am pretty much self taught but enjoy the game alot (DotP helped drag me back in). I usually play with my wife or any friend who may come to the house (one of the fun but few 2 players games you can do)! I have done one event though, it was the Innistrad prerelease sealed event. I actually finished in the top 4 and won some cards! (first time luck maybe) Maybe with all the help from here I can build up the courage to try one of my constructed decks in a tourny. As far as playtesting though, I am fortunate enough to have my wife here with several other decks we have put together to try it against. I already have this one together in sleeves to try it.
Again great advice, thanks! I have pulled the 2x explorer's scope s in favor of 2x bonesplitter s. I have also pulled the 2x lawkeepers but I currently only have 1 extra puresteel paladin so that brings them up to 3. Not quite sure what to slide into the other spot though? I have another stoneforge mystic or maybe another one of my other 1 drops or use it for the grafted wargear but like you said don't want to many equips versus creatures. The auriok edgewright does seem good but I don't think I should replace any of my current 2 drops. True that the duelist and kitesail apprentice are only good if equipped but seem to be the best 1 drops that I could find for this deck, one with evasion, one with double strike! They do suffer against RDW with turn 1 goblin guide s and other craziness though! That is why I am trying to streamline everything. The 2 Titans are there basically for back up in case the game lasts a little longer or I play against bigger creatures, I used to have these and the sunblast angel s in but that was a little too much on the heavy end, so they got replaced with Gideon . I guess big fliers could be a problem too but the skyhunter skirmisher is a 3 drop and I really like my mirran crusader s! Well I need to figure out what to slide into my final spot for the last removed lawkeeper and then some playtesting! Suggestions for the final spot?
Also as you can see, I have 2 of the older swords from Darksteel because I haven't pulled all the new ones and they are quite pricey! Would you recommend investing in either the sword of feast and famine or the sword of war and peace over the 2 older ones I have being the sword of fire and ice and the sword of light and shadow . The sword of body and mind is the only new I have and it seems to be pretty good but I haven't tried the other two. Of the 5 swords out there what would be considered to be the best three for multi-color protection and effects?
First, gideon's lawkeeper doesn't strike me as useful for control. You have better turn 1 plays, so you might want to rethink having these. OR, you might want to rethink the point of the deck so you can keep these, your call. (Basically, your deck looks to be fast, but these would only slow it down. On the contrary, if you build around the Gideon theme, then stuff like this would be good, because tapping is G-man's thing.)
Just out of curiosity I was wondering what this type of deck would look like, with the lawkeepers and the avengers being a tap deck and all?
But i think you are a bit overloaded on creatures anway. Unless you want to play a more weenie like deck which works alot better with global buffing (read Glorious Anthem /Honor the Pure ) - your creatures drops will need to synergise with your equipment to an extent.
: Order, Law, Faith.
: Knowledge, Artifice, Control.
: Corruption, Death, Self-Interest.
: Freedom, Destruction, Victory.
: Nature, Growth, Life.
Keino
=100 Class: 
x 236 Diety: 
125/200 
=2x
dmg/
=4
dmg)
